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Actually the term "redneck" in itself originates from the red bandanas worn by some West Virginian coal miners. It's associated with an extremely blue-collar culture. That in itself kind of destroys any notion of laziness, no?
Or it comes from the fact that many southerners were farmers and their necks, which were not covered by their shirts but were exposed to the sun, would turn red from from sunburn. Either way, it bolsters the notion of the uneducated, ignorant recneck, though, no?
Like any stereotype, that of the "redneck" is unfair to Southern people. It's a generalization and the ignorance is in painting people with a broad brushstroke as "rednecks" just because they're from the south.
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Originally Posted by ReluctantGardenStater
There is crime all over, but New Jersey touts itself as one of the safest states, when in fact, it is only safe if you are in the suburbs and most of NJ's cities are not only crime-filled slums, but ALSO are entirely void of a tourism base and any decent attraction that would draw any outsiders into the city.
NJ is indeed one of the safest states. The 3 or 4 cities we have are dangerous with crime, but 90%+ of NJ'ans live in suburbs. The cities are small. To get caught in the crime of a NJ city you have to find your way to one. It's not like southern states where driving around the country you can find yourself being assaulted or robbed or shot.
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Originally Posted by ReluctantGardenStater
So while cities like Miami, New Orleans, and Memphis may have crime issues, at least people are still VISITING them as they offer something. No one is visiting Camden, Newark, and Trenton, nor will they ever be.
Peope sure do visit Atantic City, though, as much as Memphis no doubt, if not more. And Miami and New Orleans are not true Southern cities. Miami is a Northern city essentially, and New Orleans has a culture more like New York's than anyplace in the south outside Louisiana. New Orleans has as much, if not more, in common with Montreal or Quebec as it does with any southern state.
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Originally Posted by ReluctantGardenStater
People visiting NJ in general just use it as a highway or a pit stop between metropolitan areas. It really is a glorified Delaware.
NJ is too crowded to attract too many tourists. The tourism accommodates people from the area and our attractions are packed with people from the Mid-atlantic states. But, we get TONS of people from NY and PA, as well as from CT, DE, and MD. So I don't know where you get the notion that nobody is visiting NJ. Go down to Atlantic City anytime, go to the parking garage at Taj or Tropicana or Caesar's, and look at the license plates, if you don't believe me.
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Originally Posted by ReluctantGardenStater
I don't feel trapped at all, Johnny. I have a place to live and I'm in the process as we speak of coordinating my departure from the heart of Communism in North America.
It's been a looonnnnnnngggggggggggg process..... I've heard that line before, "I'm in the process..."
I find it very telling that you chose "Reluctant Garden Stater" as opposed to "Wishful/Hopeful/Future Louisianan" (or wherever it is you want to run to).
Anyway, the bottom line is that the notion of "Southern Hospitality" is too often wielded as a bludgeon against other regions by people who want to spread the myth that Southerners are somehow more friendly or hospitable than others. Every place has its own brand of "hospitality" and in reality it's about the style of the place more so than the "friendliness" of the people, since people are essentially the same everywhere in that you have nice people and jerks everywhere.
Making generalizations about people from a region as being more "friendly" or "unfriendly" is as bigoted and ignorant as making generalizations about lawyers, or Jews, or Mexicans, or Blacks, or women, or any other "group". The same EXACT excuses you use to justiify your bigoted generalizations about New Jerseyans have been used to make generalizations against other groups like Jews and Blacks.
Indeed!LOL!!Needs one of the down South evangelist to "lay hands on him" and release that demon in him.lol.HALELUAH!! huma dela ataya melaka ya ya(Im speaking in tongues )anybody seen my rattlesnakes?
I agree, nobody will convince you. It's impossible to convince someone who has closed his or her mind and only believes generalizations about people.
BTW, a pickup truck w/ a plow was driving by my house this morning, saw me struggling with the heavy stuff at the end of the driveway, and helped me out by taking half a minute to lower his plow and push the heavy stuff aside for me. He had no sign or anything on his truck, and he's not from my neighborhood or I'd have recognized the truck. What was the profit for him??? There had to be one, right?
Maybe one day, when (well, IF) you have traveled the US as much as I have, you will know better.
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closed his or her mind and only believes generalizations about people.
Moderator cut: off-topic/personal
Actually I agree with you.People are nice everywhere.People are mean everywhere.But there still are differences.Southern Hospitality came from many things.
Religion-In the Christian tradition it is apart of the "10 Commandments to love thy neighbor"Southerners especially after the Civil War were devastated.I.E. ,the Good Samaritan.They had to rely on the kindness of strangers(while I agree this was not extended to blacks most of the time)
Other features of Southern Hospitality include proper local etiquette (i.e., calling one "Sir" or "Ma'am," opening doors for women, cooking enough for everyone who might be around at mealtime, inviting one to church functions, etc.) While persons from outside the region often mistake many of the southern hospitality customs as being disingenuous or fake in some way, in actuality the customs are often a way to make the visitor feel as comfortable as possible in an unfamiliar setting.
As much as you want to claim their is no such a different.I have been all over the North,West and it is a rarity see the behavior mentioned above.
My very own extended family up North,you can see it in how they act.They used to call me "church boy" because I was so polite.The adults would marvel and praise my parents at my sister and my manners.
But you take it to far by being defensive.Southern Hospitality is not for show.What you fail to understand is that confrontation is best handle at first with "civility".Traditionally Southerners have lived in more rural areas where news travels fast my mouth.You have to be careful that the person you are having issues with is not related to your neighbor.Care must be taken not to disrupt the fabric of the community.Therefore to be "confrontational" is a matter of prudence,not fear or reproscity.
Or it comes from the fact that many southerners were farmers and their necks, which were not covered by their shirts but were exposed to the sun, would turn red from from sunburn. Either way, it bolsters the notion of the uneducated, ignorant recneck, though, no?
Like any stereotype, that of the "redneck" is unfair to Southern people. It's a generalization and the ignorance is in painting people with a broad brushstroke as "rednecks" just because they're from the south.
NJ is indeed one of the safest states. The 3 or 4 cities we have are dangerous with crime, but 90%+ of NJ'ans live in suburbs. The cities are small. To get caught in the crime of a NJ city you have to find your way to one. It's not like southern states where driving around the country you can find yourself being assaulted or robbed or shot.
Peope sure do visit Atantic City, though, as much as Memphis no doubt, if not more. And Miami and New Orleans are not true Southern cities. Miami is a Northern city essentially, and New Orleans has a culture more like New York's than anyplace in the south outside Louisiana. New Orleans has as much, if not more, in common with Montreal or Quebec as it does with any southern state.
NJ is too crowded to attract too many tourists. The tourism accommodates people from the area and our attractions are packed with people from the Mid-atlantic states. But, we get TONS of people from NY and PA, as well as from CT, DE, and MD. So I don't know where you get the notion that nobody is visiting NJ. Go down to Atlantic City anytime, go to the parking garage at Taj or Tropicana or Caesar's, and look at the license plates, if you don't believe me.
It's been a looonnnnnnngggggggggggg process..... I've heard that line before, "I'm in the process..."
I find it very telling that you chose "Reluctant Garden Stater" as opposed to "Wishful/Hopeful/Future Louisianan" (or wherever it is you want to run to).
Anyway, the bottom line is that the notion of "Southern Hospitality" is too often wielded as a bludgeon against other regions by people who want to spread the myth that Southerners are somehow more friendly or hospitable than others. Every place has its own brand of "hospitality" and in reality it's about the style of the place more so than the "friendliness" of the people, since people are essentially the same everywhere in that you have nice people and jerks everywhere.
Making generalizations about people from a region as being more "friendly" or "unfriendly" is as bigoted and ignorant as making generalizations about lawyers, or Jews, or Mexicans, or Blacks, or women, or any other "group". The same EXACT excuses you use to justiify your bigoted generalizations about New Jerseyans have been used to make generalizations against other groups like Jews and Blacks.
New Orleans culturally has more to in common with NYC?LOL!!!Montreal?You really no nothing about Southern Culture or eve Quebecois.
New Orleans culture is STRONGLY tied to the African Slaves and even freed Haitians.The French connection is the only thing that has ties it at all to not Montreal but more Northern Quebec.Quebecois in the rural areas are considered by many to be "rednecks".So there is a similarities to the poor under class of cajuns in N.O.to the Quebecois.
But the African presence is the glue that holds all those cultures in New Orleans together.Creole,Cajun,Spanish,French.Where is that in Quebec?Jazz,Blues,zydeco?Voodo?New Orleans is almost as old as New York.No way New York had ANY influnence on the development of N.O.
New Orleans culturally has more to in common with NYC?LOL!!!Montreal?You really no nothing about Southern Culture or eve Quebecois.
New Orleans culture is STRONGLY tied to the African Slaves and even freed Haitians.The French connection is the only thing that has ties it at all to not Montreal but more Northern Quebec.Quebecois in the rural areas are considered by many to be "rednecks".So there is a similarities to the poor under class of cajuns in N.O.to the Quebecois.
But the African presence is the glue that holds all those cultures in New Orleans together.Creole,Cajun,Spanish,French.Where is that in Quebec?Jazz,Blues,zydeco?Voodo?New Orleans is almost as old as New York.No way New York had ANY influnence on the development of N.O.
Very true, New Orleans is it's own variant of the south, in the heart of the south.
Or it comes from the fact that many southerners were farmers and their necks, which were not covered by their shirts but were exposed to the sun, would turn red from from sunburn. Either way, it bolsters the notion of the uneducated, ignorant recneck, though, no?
Like any stereotype, that of the "redneck" is unfair to Southern people. It's a generalization and the ignorance is in painting people with a broad brushstroke as "rednecks" just because they're from the south.
Yes, that is the other theoretical origin. I don't really see your point. Either way, it is symbolic of the working class roots of the South. Certainly not lazy and nothing really to look down upon either. The problem is, in NJ, as a highly white-collar, dense, and urban state (the only state where every county falls in some metropolitan area), people have a tendency too look down on anyone considered blue-collar, not just in the South, but in the Midwest, in the Plains, etc. For God's sake, I've heard people from Northern NJ (where we both live) refer to South JERSEY as "too rural, redneck, trash, basically the South, etc." Except the beach towns of course
I hope you're not one of those people, Johnny. The culture of snobbery in this state is overwhelming at times.
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NJ is indeed one of the safest states. The 3 or 4 cities we have are dangerous with crime, but 90%+ of NJ'ans live in suburbs. The cities are small. To get caught in the crime of a NJ city you have to find your way to one. It's not like southern states where driving around the country you can find yourself being assaulted or robbed or shot.
That's the problem with this state. Everyone lives in a sheltered suburban area and when they are finally ready to venture into the big bad cities, they get a taste of urban life in New Jersey, which is far from pretty. Look at Camden - It has the aquarium, it had Campbell's, a decent waterfront, and it's close to Philadelphia. Anywhere else, its act might have been cleaned up and tourism dollars might be flooding in, but in typical NJ inefficient fashion, it remains among the top 5 most violent and dangerous slums in America. Quite symbolic of NJ overall...A dream that died a long time ago.
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Peope sure do visit Atantic City, though, as much as Memphis no doubt, if not more. And Miami and New Orleans are not true Southern cities. Miami is a Northern city essentially, and New Orleans has a culture more like New York's than anyplace in the south outside Louisiana. New Orleans has as much, if not more, in common with Montreal or Quebec as it does with any southern state.
I don't know about the number of annual visitors to Atlantic City compared to Memphis (it may be less, equal, or more), but your other comments are totally off. Miami and New Orleans ARE Southern cities. In fact, geographically speaking, you can't get much further South. Culturally speaking, New Orleans is deeply tied to the Deep South and the peoples who settled there - West African slaves, French colonists, Acadians in exile, the Spanish occupiers, etc. Miami has less of a Southern feel because overwhelming immigration from Cuba and Latin America has altered the demographics, but both Louisiana and Florida were part of the Confederate states and the original South - They are Southern as are their cities.
Many people say that Boston and portions of New England feel like the Canadian Maritime provinces. Northern Maine has been compared to New Brunswick. That doesn't mean they are less Northeastern or American. Parts of southern Indiana feel more like the South than the North. That doesn't make it a Southern state. A lot of areas have outside cultural influences. It just doesn't work that way.
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NJ is too crowded to attract too many tourists. The tourism accommodates people from the area and our attractions are packed with people from the Mid-atlantic states. But, we get TONS of people from NY and PA, as well as from CT, DE, and MD. So I don't know where you get the notion that nobody is visiting NJ. Go down to Atlantic City anytime, go to the parking garage at Taj or Tropicana or Caesar's, and look at the license plates, if you don't believe me.
Yes, NJ gets regional visitors (usually for seasonal tourism only) at the shore and in Atlantic City. So what? Legalized gambling is not unique to New Jersey. More people visit Las Vegas, obviously. As for the beaches, they're nice, but people from around the country are not coming to New Jersey for the beaches. They're going to Florida, the Carolinas, California, Hawaii, etc. People from around the country DO visit the cities of the South, however, whether New Orleans, Miami, Memphis, Atlanta, Charleston, or Nashville.
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It's been a looonnnnnnngggggggggggg process..... I've heard that line before, "I'm in the process..."
Well when I'm leaving and I drive up to Bergen County for the going away party you're going to throw me, I can tell you all that was involved in the process.
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I find it very telling that you chose "Reluctant Garden Stater" as opposed to "Wishful/Hopeful/Future Louisianan" (or wherever it is you want to run to).
When I created this account, I had not finalized my plans to move, nor had I decided on Louisiana. When I do move, I do plan to see if I can change my name, however, for your future reference.
Also, it's a minor point, but I'm not running anywhere. My head is held high and I feel quite confident about my decision. I anticipate it greatly.
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Anyway, the bottom line is that the notion of "Southern Hospitality" is too often wielded as a bludgeon against other regions by people who want to spread the myth that Southerners are somehow more friendly or hospitable than others. Every place has its own brand of "hospitality" and in reality it's about the style of the place more so than the "friendliness" of the people, since people are essentially the same everywhere in that you have nice people and jerks everywhere.
Descriptions of the origins and true meaning of Southern hospitality are laid out in the thread by others for you to read. There's not much I can say if you believe it's "made up". Each place has its fair share of kindness and rudeness, which I've agreed on many times. That doesn't mean that the level of friendly and hospitable people in New Jersey comes anywhere CLOSE to anywhere in the South.
New Jersey can't compete with the South on hospitality or really anything else on its best day.
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Making generalizations about people from a region as being more "friendly" or "unfriendly" is as bigoted and ignorant as making generalizations about lawyers, or Jews, or Mexicans, or Blacks, or women, or any other "group". The same EXACT excuses you use to justiify your bigoted generalizations about New Jerseyans have been used to make generalizations against other groups like Jews and Blacks
It's your opinion to think so and compare such situations, but I firmly disagree. Is it generalizing? If that's what you wish to call it. Anytime in the South I meet many more friendly people each day then when I'm in New Jersey, and I travel quite a bit in NJ and experience different areas. I know it's not me, as I don't treat Southerners with more respect than I do NJites.
Here's a good example of how "Southern Hospitality" is really a euphemism for "Southern Cowardly avoidance of confrontation". If a Southerner doesn't like you, he or she will not say "I don't like you", or "Get lost ya jerk" or anything direct. No, he or she will say "Bless ya heart". What that means is that they hate you but want to put on an act that they don't hate you because they fear confrontation (especially with Yankees, ever since we destroyed them in the Civil War). Then they call that "Southern Hospitality". It's just passive aggression, really, rooted in cowardice.
Try being direct like that with many Southerners and the hospitality will quickly disappear before the fists start flyin'. It actually amazes us that people can speak to each other like that up north without getting their lights punched out.
When I was in NYC a few years ago my cab driver was screamed at by another cab driver who didn't like his driving, if that happened where I live one of them would have been sent to the hospital.
^^^I'm with him, it could also be part of the reason to say that instead of giving the offender verbal abuse with the appropriate middle finger it would be much preffered to turn the other cheek and be a better person, the bigger man.
Anyway, I didn't know you were going to move ReluctantGardenStater, where are you off to? New Orleans? Mississippi? A podunk town somewhere? I already have an idea because of your status.
So funny.The proverbial pot calling the kettle black.
Actually I agree with you.People are nice everywhere.People are mean everywhere.But there still are differences.Southern Hospitality came from many things.
Moderator cut: see comment
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Originally Posted by afonega1
Religion-In the Christian tradition it is apart of the "10 Commandments to love thy neighbor"Southerners especially after the Civil War were devastated.I.E. ,the Good Samaritan.They had to rely on the kindness of strangers(while I agree this was not extended to blacks most of the time)
Christianity was in no way limited to or prevalent only in the South, and this is still the case. In fact, I see more Christian values in the North, especially where racism is concerned.
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Originally Posted by afonega1
Other features of Southern Hospitality include proper local etiquette (i.e., calling one "Sir" or "Ma'am," opening doors for women, cooking enough for everyone who might be around at mealtime, inviting one to church functions, etc.) While persons from outside the region often mistake many of the southern hospitality customs as being disingenuous or fake in some way, in actuality the customs are often a way to make the visitor feel as comfortable as possible in an unfamiliar setting.
Right, LOCAL etiquette. What's local there doesn't match what's local here. Here we are taught that it is polite to learn a person's name and use it. Mr./Mrs./Miss so-and-so. Before people started using "sir" up here at all it was common to use "Mister". Still, saying "sir" and "ma'am" is not limited to the south, I don't know why you present it that way. Same for opening doors, offering dinner to others, etc. You've obviously never heard the stereotype of the Italian/Jewish/[insert ethnicity here] mother or grandma who pushes food onto even the most casual visitor.
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Originally Posted by afonega1
As much as you want to claim their is no such a different.I have been all over the North,West and it is a rarity see the behavior mentioned above.
I've been all over the nation and experienced hospitality and rudeness in the same doses whether it be north, south, east, or west. So do I go by your anecdotal experience or mine? I trust mine much more. I have a feeling I've been more all over the country, too.
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Originally Posted by afonega1
My very own extended family up North,you can see it in how they act.They used to call me "church boy" because I was so polite.The adults would marvel and praise my parents at my sister and my manners.
The problem is that in your background it is considered to say "Bless your/his heart" to or about someone you're angry with. In other words, it's a facade of civility with a seething dislike lurking right behind it. What you don't (and anyone who does such a thing doesn't) realize is that your true emotions come through in your non-verbal communication - your tone, body language, facial gestures, etc. - loud and clear. So, not only do you insult someone by saying such a thing, but you sow seeds of distrust because it is clear to the person you say that to that not only are you angry with him but you also are being sneaky, conniving, and phony about it.
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Originally Posted by afonega1
But you take it to far by being defensive. Southern Hospitality is not for show.What you fail to understand is that confrontation is best handle at first with "civility".
There is a way to be civil without being fake. There is a way to express disagreement, frustration, even anger civilly but honestly and openly. I think this is probably at the crux of the difference between people who believe that southerners or certain groups of people are "friendlier" and those who believe that people are the same everywhere, all human, all flawed, all subject to the same emotion, and all worthy of being given a chance.
Someone makes you angry and you say, "Wha, bless yo lil'ole heat, y'all have a wunnaful dayyy!!!" The person can tell you're being facetious and are angry, and they can tell you're being phony. Now you've just destroyed what little trust might have been there. If instead you say, civilly and tactfully, "Hey, I'm sorry but I disagree with _____" then you are being up front and offering to open communication to resolve the problem. I suppose if you're raised to believe that people who express themselves are bad, rude, evil, etc. then yes, you will see anybody who doesn't adhere to the southern code of phony civility as being bad, rude, evil, etc. But the FACT remains that people are people, all people get upset or angry, all people have disagreements, all people get frustrated because these are all human things. Being phony and civil to adhere to some outdated code carried over in the clannish traditions of the Scotch-Irish is nothing more than just that - phoniness done out of blind tradition, clinging to a code from a less enlightened, more closed-minded time.
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Originally Posted by afonega1
Traditionally Southerners have lived in more rural areas where news travels fast my mouth.You have to be careful that the person you are having issues with is not related to your neighbor.Care must be taken not to disrupt the fabric of the community.Therefore to be "confrontational" is a matter of prudence,not fear or reproscity.
Well if you don't gossip you don't have to worry about that. Is gossiping a bigger problem with Southerners? I doubt it. But to stick to a code to avoid the fallout of gossip is a lot more work than just workinig on not gossiping to begin with (now there's a novel idea). Maybe if you deal with the problem directly with the person involved there will be no need or even occasion to gossip to your neighbors about it.
Last edited by Bo; 02-17-2010 at 08:25 AM..
Reason: This deletion was explained in the Direct Message I sent you.
New Orleans culturally has more to in common with NYC?LOL!!!Montreal?You really no nothing about Southern Culture or eve Quebecois.
New Orleans culture is STRONGLY tied to the African Slaves and even freed Haitians.The French connection is the only thing that has ties it at all to not Montreal but more Northern Quebec.Quebecois in the rural areas are considered by many to be "rednecks".So there is a similarities to the poor under class of cajuns in N.O.to the Quebecois.
But the African presence is the glue that holds all those cultures in New Orleans together.Creole,Cajun,Spanish,French.Where is that in Quebec?Jazz,Blues,zydeco?Voodo?New Orleans is almost as old as New York.No way New York had ANY influnence on the development of N.O.
New Orleans has a more similar mix of ethnicities to NY City than to ANY city or region in the South. I didn't say that NY influenced N.O. I said that the influences in both cities are similar, from similar ethnicities, and even the accent is similar. I'm not making this up, this is well noted by people who have studied this cultural phenomenon.
The French connection is with Quebec as a province. I compared to Montreal because Montreal is a city which closely resembles the diverse ethnic makeup of New Orleans. You don't have to tell me about the Quebecois, my mother's entire family live in Quebec, my mother live there many years, and I spent my summers there as a child and I go at least a couple times a year (it's only a 5 1/2 hour drive from here).
Yes, the historical African presence is what makes New Orleans different from Montreal and the rest of Quebec and is what ties New Orleans to the South. That is the real bulk of the "Southern" influence on New Orleans, not the white Anglo/Scotch-Irish southern culture that dominates most of the rest of the south.
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People are nice everywhere.People are mean everywhere.But there still are differences.Southern Hospitality came from many things.
