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So what you're saying is you agree with me people are nice and mean everywhere, but you also don't agree with me, because southerners are more hospitable (friendly/civil) than anyone else. Right. That sums up most of what passes for southern "hospitality" anymore - say anything, even if it's not true and you're going to contradict yourself, just to provide a facade of "civility".
Christianity was in no way limited to or prevalent only in the South, and this is still the case. In fact, I see more Christian values in the North, especially where racism is concerned.
Right, LOCAL etiquette. What's local there doesn't match what's local here. Here we are taught that it is polite to learn a person's name and use it. Mr./Mrs./Miss so-and-so. Before people started using "sir" up here at all it was common to use "Mister". Still, saying "sir" and "ma'am" is not limited to the south, I don't know why you present it that way. Same for opening doors, offering dinner to others, etc. You've obviously never heard the stereotype of the Italian/Jewish/[insert ethnicity here] mother or grandma who pushes food onto even the most casual visitor.
I've been all over the nation and experienced hospitality and rudeness in the same doses whether it be north, south, east, or west. So do I go by your anecdotal experience or mine? I trust mine much more. I have a feeling I've been more all over the country, too.
The problem is that in your background it is considered to say "Bless your/his heart" to or about someone you're angry with. In other words, it's a facade of civility with a seething dislike lurking right behind it. What you don't (and anyone who does such a thing doesn't) realize is that your true emotions come through in your non-verbal communication - your tone, body language, facial gestures, etc. - loud and clear. So, not only do you insult someone by saying such a thing, but you sow seeds of distrust because it is clear to the person you say that to that not only are you angry with him but you also are being sneaky, conniving, and phony about it.
There is a way to be civil without being fake. There is a way to express disagreement, frustration, even anger civilly but honestly and openly. I think this is probably at the crux of the difference between people who believe that southerners or certain groups of people are "friendlier" and those who believe that people are the same everywhere, all human, all flawed, all subject to the same emotion, and all worthy of being given a chance.
Someone makes you angry and you say, "Wha, bless yo lil'ole heat, y'all have a wunnaful dayyy!!!" The person can tell you're being facetious and are angry, and they can tell you're being phony. Now you've just destroyed what little trust might have been there. If instead you say, civilly and tactfully, "Hey, I'm sorry but I disagree with _____" then you are being up front and offering to open communication to resolve the problem. I suppose if you're raised to believe that people who express themselves are bad, rude, evil, etc. then yes, you will see anybody who doesn't adhere to the southern code of phony civility as being bad, rude, evil, etc. But the FACT remains that people are people, all people get upset or angry, all people have disagreements, all people get frustrated because these are all human things. Being phony and civil to adhere to some outdated code carried over in the clannish traditions of the Scotch-Irish is nothing more than just that - phoniness done out of blind tradition, clinging to a code from a less enlightened, more closed-minded time.
Well if you don't gossip you don't have to worry about that. Is gossiping a bigger problem with Southerners? I doubt it. But to stick to a code to avoid the fallout of gossip is a lot more work than just workinig on not gossiping to begin with (now there's a novel idea). Maybe if you deal with the problem directly with the person involved there will be no need or even occasion to gossip to your neighbors about it.
Moderator cut: see comment The friendly place in America I have ever been was in Minnesota and uppstate Wisconsin.True Southern Hospitality can be found there for sure.But overall,the Northeast is not known for this behavior.Does not mean one is better than the other,just means it is what it is.Go ahead with your opinions,just like i have mine.However its is telling that even people in your own state do not even believe "hospitality" to be one of its top things its known for.
Last edited by Bo; 02-17-2010 at 07:17 AM..
Reason: My second direct message addresses why this sentence was deleted.
^^^I'm with him, it could also be part of the reason to say that instead of giving the offender verbal abuse with the appropriate middle finger it would be much preffered to turn the other cheek and be a better person, the bigger man.
Anyway, I didn't know you were going to move ReluctantGardenStater, where are you off to? New Orleans? Mississippi? A podunk town somewhere? I already have an idea because of your status.
Oh, I'd be happy anywhere in Dixie. Heck, I'd be happy anywhere that isn't NJ/NYC/NYC's closet. However, right now I'm looking most toward Lafayette, LA. Love the history of the state, the small city atmosphere in Lafayette, and its proximity to New Orleans, Mississippi, Houston and East Texas, etc.
Hope to go from a ReluctantGardenStater to a ProudBayouStater - or PelicanStater, whichever you prefer
Gave serious thought to East Tennessee, northern Mississippi, and northern Georgia though too.
You've got some serious issues.The friendly place in America I have ever been was in Minnesota and uppstate Wisconsin.True Southern Hospitality can be found there for sure.But overall,the Northeast is not known for this behavior.Does not mean one is better than the other,just means it is what it is.Go ahead with your opinions,just like i have mine.However its is telling that even people in your own state do not even believe "hospitality" to be one of its top things its known for.
If I had issues, I'd make generalizations about people based on superficialities like where they live, who/what they worship, what sex they are, what ethnicity or race they are, etc. Then I'd have issues because I'd be an ignorant bigot who generalizes and stereotypes people.
Now, if someone who does generalize and stereotype people tells me that I've "got some serious issues", well then I can only take that as confirmation that I'm doing something right.
And I never said that "hospitality" is not something my state or any other state is not known for. Every single state and region in the nation is known for their hospitality; at least by people who have open minds. I have experienced great California hospitality, NY hospitality, NJ hospitality, Southern hospitality, Midwestern hospitality, New Englan "Yankee" hospitality, Pacific Northwest hospitality, etc. etc.
My point is that "Southern Hospitality" meaning that people in the south are friendlier/kinder/nicer than people elsewhere is a myth. People are not friendlier in the South, they are as friendly as anywhere else.
Don't forget Italians (Sicilians mostly), Irish, and Jews, much like NYC and other Northern cities. Where were the Acadian, Sicilian, and Jewish populations of Atlanta, Memphis, Little Rock, Charlotte, Raleigh, Richmond, Charleston, Jacksonville, Birmingham, or any other southern city? Oh yeah, there weren't any. Even Spanish populations existed in hardly any of those cities.
Some posts above were deleted. I said in post #110 that the personal sniping was done in this thread. Since it continued, now the thread is done.
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That sums up most of what passes for southern "hospitality" anymore - say anything, even if it's not true and you're going to contradict yourself, just to provide a facade of "civility".
