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Old 06-13-2007, 09:20 PM
 
Location: Texas
2,703 posts, read 2,612,212 times
Reputation: 206

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I also forgot to mention that there will be Signature Bus (basically BRT), that will connect major streets with the rail lines. These lines will run in between rail lines, and also along major streets in Houston (Gessner being the largest). I like this plan as well.

A look at the inner city LRT: http://www.metrosolutions.org/posted/1068/5_CORR_Hot_Spov010907.141869.pdf (broken link)
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Old 06-13-2007, 09:23 PM
 
1,486 posts, read 4,030,541 times
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Guerilla-

Well, I think it is you who doesn't know what talking about.

Go to the METRO website you gave me, read the plans, and look at the presentation. First, they are building about 9 more miles of light rail by 2012. The other "lines" you mention are not light rail, they are bus lanes. They were originally approved to be light rail, but the right-wing nuts in Houston nixed that. METRO claims they are going to eventually convert these to light rail, but it won't be until sometime around 2025. The commuter line you keep talking about is planned to be up and running by 2025; they are going to be still planning the thing in 2012! At best, by 2012, METRO will have about 16 miles of rail in total. It's going to take 20 years for them to have one measly commuter rail line and "possibly" four light rail lines? Sorry, that's just pathetic!

Portland, a city 1/4 the size, already has over 44 miles of light rail. By 2009 they are going to have about 9 more miles (more than Houston's entire system right now). They are adding 6 additional miles by 2014. Add to that, Portland also has a trolley system that supplements the light rail network. Portland's current streetcar system has about the same amount of track as the entire Houston rail network. Portland is also extending that system to two more lines. Finally, add to all that, Portland has a commuter rail system that is currently under construction that will be up and running by 2009. And again, let me remind you that this is all in a city 1/4 the size of Houston.

Face it, Houston is behind (WAY BEHIND) and they are doing little to catch up. They would rather spend their money on new freeways and roads that contribute to sprawl. Even if what you say is true that people in Houston want a real public transportation system, the redneck politicians who run things in Texas will deep-6 the project or they won't get any funding support from the hicks in the state government. So, I think I am perfectly right to be skeptical.
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Old 06-13-2007, 09:25 PM
 
Location: Texas
2,703 posts, read 2,612,212 times
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...Look at this...

http://www.metrosolutions.org/posted/1068/METRO_Solutions_Overview_and_Update_May_2007_3.156 816.pdf (broken link)

And BRT is essentially the same thing as LRT, just doesn't have the wire over the top. The BRT still has the right of way on the streets. And the conversion will happen as soon as one guy, Culberson, is out of office. We already got that idiot Delay gone.
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Old 06-13-2007, 09:30 PM
 
1,486 posts, read 4,030,541 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guerilla View Post
I also forgot to mention that there will be Signature Bus (basically BRT), that will connect major streets with the rail lines. These lines will run in between rail lines, and also along major streets in Houston (Gessner being the largest). I like this plan as well.

A look at the inner city LRT: http://www.metrosolutions.org/posted/1068/5_CORR_Hot_Spov010907.141869.pdf (broken link)
"Signature Bus" is not BRT. BRT has an exclusive right-of-way completely separate and divided from the lanes of traffic. "Signature Bus" is simply a bus in a HOV designated lane that's right next to all the other lanes of traffic. Not really different from the status quo. It's a marketing ploy; they are too cheap to spend real money on rail transit.
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Old 06-13-2007, 09:32 PM
 
1,486 posts, read 4,030,541 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guerilla View Post
...Look at this...

http://www.metrosolutions.org/posted/1068/METRO_Solutions_Overview_and_Update_May_2007_3.156 816.pdf (broken link)

And BRT is essentially the same thing as LRT, just doesn't have the wire over the top. The BRT still has the right of way on the streets. And the conversion will happen as soon as one guy, Culberson, is out of office. We already got that idiot Delay gone.
Already looked at it and it proved your other statements about the new rail lines and commuter rail incorrect.

And BRT is not the same as rail. How much you want to bet that people will be driving in the bus lane?
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Old 06-13-2007, 09:35 PM
 
Location: Texas
2,703 posts, read 2,612,212 times
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It isn't the same, but it still will have tracks at the bottom and be in its own right of way.

And the Signature Bus is...as bus. It will be in its own dedicated lane (as you can see in the PDF video), and have its own traffic light letting it go first, stopping all other traffic. I like the concept.
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Old 06-14-2007, 09:37 AM
 
Location: In God
3,073 posts, read 10,774,197 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guerilla View Post
I really don't think you know what you are talking about. Houston doesn't have as much funding as Dallas does. People like Culberson are holding Houston back. The Houston area really wants more rail. The people here ARE willing to invest in public transit.
Yep. And we have the poll results to prove it. As we speak, 16 out of 20 voters said that they would use an advanced Houston system frequently. The other four obviously have no use for it because they know that they wouldn't use it frequently. These are urban people, guys. Urban people stuck in an unfortunate sprawling situation. Not some country hicks stuck to their 150.
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Old 06-14-2007, 10:59 AM
 
Location: from houstoner to bostoner to new yorker to new jerseyite ;)
4,085 posts, read 11,460,846 times
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It's mainly the politicians, and only a handful, who have been obstructing the progress of rail, not the people. There are many rail advocacy groups here that are working to make sure rail happens this time, after all the people have been voting in favor of it since the 1980's! More Houstonians support rail than don't. Even METRO realizes it's been way too long. That's why the plan for the BRT to precede it on some lines. The biggest setback to rail was former mayor Bob Lanier, who opposed rail and misspent the $500 million METRO had previously set aside to develop rail during his term in office. Ironically, he now supports rail. US Rep Tom DeLay feigned public support until it was revealed he was a financial backer of the anti-rail group Texans for True Mobility. US Rep John Culberson has been another holding up progress. At least DeLay is gone now, thankfully. Senator Kay Bailey Hutchinson and US Rep Sheila Jackson Lee are two rail supporters who are working to make sure it happens this go-round.

Some background on Houston's longstanding rail shenanigans:

Greater Houston Partnership and Metro: A Little History

Houston Chronicle: Vast Light Rail Conspiracy? (accidentally leaked internal memo from the Houston Chronicle)

Alliances | Just Transportation Alliances

DeLaying Light Rail

richmondrail.org Supporters (one of the rail advocacy groups in the Montrose)
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Old 06-14-2007, 06:20 PM
 
609 posts, read 2,723,783 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade View Post
Again, we do not know this. The reason why Dallas has 68,000 with 43 miles of rail now is because they put the rail stations in areas that were not developed. hey did that on purpose and now they are seeing the benefits of doing so. Houston simply built there lines another way by putting them in areas that are already dense and in areas that would more likely receive alot of passengers anyway. I can understand you saying that VP is not a TOD. But it can be used as a model to build a TOD. It's right on the rail line and when it's builtout, it will be very very dense. And as soon as VP really gets going, visitors from from Ft. Worth, the burbs, and Dallas residents will be using rail alot more to get there. Not to mention the rebirth of Deep Ellum, Fair Park, SE Dallas, and other entertainment neighborhoods being revitalized because of light rail.
First of all, I just want to say how funny it is that the Dallas vs. Houston crowd follows each other.

But TOD's are much more ahead in Dallas IMO than in Houston. We have 43 miles of track currently. We'll have 90 miles by 2013. We'll have well over 100 miles in the decade. It's simple math. No matter where DART has expanded, strong growth has occurred. And Ft. Worth is coming on line with their light rail, which will connect to ours via TRE. And with Victory Park, America's most high dense real estate development, it's only going to continue to boom. We're putting up roughly 25 new highrises, many of which are in Victory Park, including Texas' tallest residential tower. But admittedly it will only be temporary as the Arts District plans to put up a residential tower that is even taller, and then downtown is adding yet another taller residential tower than in the Arts District, America's largest Art District by the way. the downtown population is expected to double over the next 5 years with lots of empty nesters either returning to the city or young DINK's or Single professionals coming in to live more urban life. With the Woodall Rodgers park commencing construction later this year to be done by 2010, the Trinity River Project to move forward with either winner of the Mayoral election, Dallas is poised for great things.
I just cant see how the Houston people think Dallas numbers will be stagnant
That they will not grow. After all, we've added about 10,000 people more per year than the Houston MSA. 140,000 vs. 130,000.

Dallas is just as if not more dynamic in its MSA as Houston.

But all this discussion really should be on the Dallas vs. Houston thread, and not the Chicago vs. Houston thread. I bet all the Chicago people have abandoned our never ending debate that at the end of the day, the right answer is the future will only tell who was right.
Hopefully it will be Spade and Metroplex
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Old 06-14-2007, 06:37 PM
 
1,008 posts, read 3,733,593 times
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Since both Houston and Chicago are popular cities to live in, do you foresee Houston becoming like Chicago in the future? Given the exansion of people migrating there as well as building a new rail system? Maybe Houston will fill the sprawl with apartments, houses and small businesses? Your thoughts?
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