U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
 
Old 06-14-2007, 06:42 PM
 
Location: Texas
2,703 posts, read 247,155 times
Reputation: 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by metroplex2003 View Post
First of all, I just want to say how funny it is that the Dallas vs. Houston crowd follows each other.

But TOD's are much more ahead in Dallas IMO than in Houston. We have 43 miles of track currently. We'll have 90 miles by 2013. We'll have well over 100 miles in the decade. It's simple math. No matter where DART has expanded, strong growth has occurred. And Ft. Worth is coming on line with their light rail, which will connect to ours via TRE.
That is bound to happen. Anywhere rail goes, development follows.

Quote:
And with Victory Park, America's most high dense real estate development, it's only going to continue to boom. We're putting up roughly 25 new highrises, many of which are in Victory Park, including Texas' tallest residential tower. But admittedly it will only be temporary as the Arts District plans to put up a residential tower that is even taller, and then downtown is adding yet another taller residential tower than in the Arts District, America's largest Art District by the way.
I haven't seen Victory Park being called America's highest dense real estate development anywhere before. Have a link? Also, how tall is that new residential tower? Houston has a 500 footer going up in Downtown now as I type. There is also a 66-story residential tower going up in Uptown Houston. About the Arts District, Dallas is the only major American city with one. Cities like Houston and LA have theater districts and museum districts. Dallas groups both into one district. Also, you have to remember that Dallas' Arts District is said to be the largest in one urban area. The largest for Dallas meaning area, not number of venues.

Quote:
the downtown population is expected to double over the next 5 years with lots of empty nesters either returning to the city or young DINK's or Single professionals coming in to live more urban life. With the Woodall Rodgers park commencing construction later this year to be done by 2010, the Trinity River Project to move forward with either winner of the Mayoral election, Dallas is poised for great things.
Houston's Downtown population is at 14,000 people. Houston's Downtown is roughly 2.2 square miles. Houston has the Buffalo Bayou Plan which has actually already started. Here is the website: Buffalo Bayou Master Plan . It is an amazing plan.

Quote:
I just cant see how the Houston people think Dallas numbers will be stagnant. That they will not grow. After all, we've added about 10,000 people more per year than the Houston MSA. 140,000 vs. 130,000.
Dallas-Fort Worth has added more than Houston every year, but not by that much. If Houston and Dallas each continues the numerical growth they've had in the 2000-2006 period, here's when each will hit 7,000,000:

Dallas-Fort Worth has averaged 134,595 growth per year; Houston: 133,088 per year.

Houston hits 6,000,000 before 2010 census,
Houston hits 7,000,000 in 2017

Dallas-Fort Worth hits 7,000,000 in 2014.

However, In both metros, recent growth has been greater than those averages. If they each maintain the growth they experienced in 2005-2006, they will hit 7,000,000 VERY close to the same time, around the 2012-2013 time frame.

Quote:
Dallas is just as if not more dynamic in its MSA as Houston.
With Houston's international status, I think Houston is a bit more dynamic, but they are about the same.

Quote:
But all this discussion really should be on the Dallas vs. Houston thread, and not the Chicago vs. Houston thread. I bet all the Chicago people have abandoned our never ending debate that at the end of the day, the right answer is the future will only tell who was right.
Hopefully it will be Spade and Metroplex
Haha, so true.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-14-2007, 07:01 PM
 
609 posts, read 2,087,774 times
Reputation: 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guerilla View Post
That is bound to happen. Anywhere rail goes, development follows.



I haven't seen Victory Park being called America's highest dense real estate development anywhere before. Have a link? Also, how tall is that new residential tower? Houston has a 500 footer going up in Downtown now as I type. There is also a 66-story residential tower going up in Uptown Houston. About the Arts District, Dallas is the only major American city with one. Cities like Houston and LA have theater districts and museum districts. Dallas groups both into one district. Also, you have to remember that Dallas' Arts District is said to be the largest in one urban area. The largest for Dallas meaning area, not number of venues.



Houston's Downtown population is at 14,000 people. Houston's Downtown is roughly 2.2 square miles. Houston has the Buffalo Bayou Plan which has actually already started. Here is the website: Buffalo Bayou Master Plan . It is an amazing plan.



Dallas-Fort Worth has added more than Houston every year, but not by that much. If Houston and Dallas each continues the numerical growth they've had in the 2000-2006 period, here's when each will hit 7,000,000:

Dallas-Fort Worth has averaged 134,595 growth per year; Houston: 133,088 per year.

Houston hits 6,000,000 before 2010 census,
Houston hits 7,000,000 in 2017

Dallas-Fort Worth hits 7,000,000 in 2014.

However, In both metros, recent growth has been greater than those averages. If they each maintain the growth they experienced in 2005-2006, they will hit 7,000,000 VERY close to the same time, around the 2012-2013 time frame.


With Houston's international status, I think Houston is a bit more dynamic, but they are about the same.



Haha, so true.

With a 500,000 person lead and a relatively same growth rate, Dallas should hit 7,000,000 people in 7.4 years vs. Houston 11.27 years.

And FYI, number of stories does not always equate to building height. However, number of stories may equal more population growth...however, amt. of sq. ft per building floor may make number of floor irrelevant. We can play this game. Example is the Chicago Spire. It maybe America's future tallest building, but amt. of sq footage per floor is not impressive.

As for Dallas, the Victory Tower was billed as the "tallest residential structure in Texas" by height...not sure how much sq. footage per floor will be there...b/c that will be important for amt. of people to be put in there....but as I said, it will be short lived.

Now Houston maybe building a 60 story tower, question is, How tall, is there going to be some tall antenna?, how much sq. footage per floor, is it going to come to realization? Dallas' Victory Tower and the one downtown (approved 2 days ago) have been approved. VT is going up as I type. Downtown soon thereafter. Plus, we're adding 50 new high rises to a fairly small area...as you made the point, Houston's downtown has 2.2 sq. miles...but our 50 high rises are going up in a smaller area...thus creating more density. But like I say, I dont think anyone can really with full 100% confidence predict the future.

All it will take is a Hurrican Rita to this time go along its original projected path and go right through Houston first then Dallas...that's 11,000,000 people, and two cities that have poor flood control systems.

Now if Trinity river project comes on board...then one city...but I dont see it being finished anytime soon.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-14-2007, 07:11 PM
 
609 posts, read 2,087,774 times
Reputation: 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by metroplex2003 View Post
With a 500,000 person lead and a relatively same growth rate, Dallas should hit 7,000,000 people in 7.4 years vs. Houston 11.27 years.

And FYI, number of stories does not always equate to building height. However, number of stories may equal more population growth...however, amt. of sq. ft per building floor may make number of floor irrelevant. We can play this game. Example is the Chicago Spire. It maybe America's future tallest building, but amt. of sq footage per floor is not impressive.

As for Dallas, the Victory Tower was billed as the "tallest residential structure in Texas" by height...not sure how much sq. footage per floor will be there...b/c that will be important for amt. of people to be put in there....but as I said, it will be short lived.

Now Houston maybe building a 60 story tower, question is, How tall, is there going to be some tall antenna?, how much sq. footage per floor, is it going to come to realization? Dallas' Victory Tower and the one downtown (approved 2 days ago) have been approved. VT is going up as I type. Downtown soon thereafter. Plus, we're adding 50 new high rises to a fairly small area...as you made the point, Houston's downtown has 2.2 sq. miles...but our 50 high rises are going up in a smaller area...thus creating more density. But like I say, I dont think anyone can really with full 100% confidence predict the future.

All it will take is a Hurrican Rita to this time go along its original projected path and go right through Houston first then Dallas...that's 11,000,000 people, and two cities that have poor flood control systems.

Now if Trinity river project comes on board...then one city...but I dont see it being finished anytime soon.
But to go back to the topic of this thread: Chicago vs. Houston.

I do believe Houston will catch up to chicago eventually in area population...city proper it will be a slow slow process. Yes they gained 200,000 people from Katrina, but it's likely a one time effect plus minus some other family members wanting to be close to family. Houston will go back down to its 11,000 people per year growth rate from pre-Katrina. And being 700,000 people behind Chicago, it will be a long time even with Chicago proper losing some people.

The problem that Houston now faces is one of infrastructure...200,000 people that they werent expecting are now in Houston. Schools from what I've read are having problems compensating. Anytime you have 200,000 people come in, you have to deal with more traffic, more crime, more health care needs.

Chicago has its own problems as well. They're battling a not so business friendly environment as Houston. Chicago though number one in corporate headquarter relocations last year with DFW finishing #2 still must face higher taxes and the govt. subsidies cannot last forever in luring businesses. Texas is naturally a more business friendly state which should help Houston (and Dallas). Both Houston and DFW MSA's are poised to catch Chicago.

Now the debate is, can both DFW and Houston raise its international status to that of chicago. Lots of it comes with the finance markets. Chicago is home to our other stock exchange. Only time will tell.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-14-2007, 07:57 PM
 
Location: Texas
2,703 posts, read 247,155 times
Reputation: 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by metroplex2003 View Post
With a 500,000 person lead and a relatively same growth rate, Dallas should hit 7,000,000 people in 7.4 years vs. Houston 11.27 years.

And FYI, number of stories does not always equate to building height. However, number of stories may equal more population growth...however, amt. of sq. ft per building floor may make number of floor irrelevant. We can play this game. Example is the Chicago Spire. It maybe America's future tallest building, but amt. of sq footage per floor is not impressive.

As for Dallas, the Victory Tower was billed as the "tallest residential structure in Texas" by height...not sure how much sq. footage per floor will be there...b/c that will be important for amt. of people to be put in there....but as I said, it will be short lived.

Now Houston maybe building a 60 story tower, question is, How tall, is there going to be some tall antenna?, how much sq. footage per floor, is it going to come to realization? Dallas' Victory Tower and the one downtown (approved 2 days ago) have been approved. VT is going up as I type. Downtown soon thereafter. Plus, we're adding 50 new high rises to a fairly small area...as you made the point, Houston's downtown has 2.2 sq. miles...but our 50 high rises are going up in a smaller area...thus creating more density. But like I say, I dont think anyone can really with full 100% confidence predict the future.

All it will take is a Hurrican Rita to this time go along its original projected path and go right through Houston first then Dallas...that's 11,000,000 people, and two cities that have poor flood control systems.

Now if Trinity river project comes on board...then one city...but I dont see it being finished anytime soon.
Okay, but Downtown Houston is extremely dense and only getting denser. Houston Downtown is DT Dallas and Las Colinas combined (and then some). The vacancy rate is at 8%. Not only residential towers, but many new office towers. Houston's core is the densest in Texas.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-14-2007, 08:02 PM
 
Location: Texas
2,703 posts, read 247,155 times
Reputation: 206
Highrises don't make a place urban either. Urban infill does.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-14-2007, 08:29 PM
 
609 posts, read 2,087,774 times
Reputation: 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guerilla View Post
Highrises don't make a place urban either. Urban infill does.
Yes, but with 25 high rises under construction and 25-26 more coming, there will be a big infill into downtown dallas area.

It's fine and dandy to talk a/b how dense Houston is, perhaps more dense in its downtown, but not so much denser overall as a city compared to dallas when you look at the numbers: 2946 vs. 2951 people per sq mile using urbanized area stats, Dallas is growing. I think the Houston crowd needs to realize that.

As for Las Colinas, which I think is a great place in its own right and home to the world's largest company by valuation (Exon-Mobil), Las Colinas has slowed its office growth and focused more attention on single family homes and townhomes. FOr the longest time, it's daytime population was at 100,000 people, but its city population dropped to 30,000 at night. It's a completely different environment...their focus is different. Whereas Houston downtown clearly has a competitor in Uptown Houston. They're separate from each other. Dallas downtown/uptown is continous and there is office space in uptown Dallas that you're not figuring into the downtown dallas stats.

Your version of urban is density. I"m providing data that is showing that the downtown/uptown Dallas area is adding density to its urban core. It's doing so in the way of high rises. That's all I'm saying. Our downtown (not uptown) popululaton alone is going to double over the next 5 years and if you include uptown, it could conceivably have more people in the core than Houston's downtown.

Now comparing uptown Houston to las Colinas, I dont have numbers unless I look it up on uptown Houston, but what I do know is that Las Colinas has 30,000 people residing in what was supposed to be mainly a business district area and that number is projected to grow due to Las Colinas shift in focus to residential structures and increasing nighttime population, permanent residents. Communities such as La villita are perfect examples and also the lofts and condos going up in downtown Las Colinas. Las Colinas is probably comparable distance to downtown Dallas as uptown Houston to downtown Houston. Uptown Houston is clearly a competitor to downtown Houston like Las Colinas is to downtown/uptown Dallas.

What I like a/b downtown/uptown Dallas is that they're continous with each other and does span multiple miles. Uptown has several office spaces as well as residential. One big moment for downtown Dallas is landing the 7-11 headquarters, which used to be up by the Galleria. THat's huge. It brings more people to the Urban core.

Also Las Colinas continues to attract more headquarters and they're building not necessarily more high rises, but more mid to low rise buildings with lots of sq. footage per floor.
Oh and Las Colinas vs. Uptown Houston, which I think is fair: there's not as much difference as you would expect:
Uptown Houston 23.6 million sq. ft. office space Las Colinas: 22.3 million sq. ft THis goes with your theory that highrises dont always tell the story b/c clearly Las Colinas skyline is shorter than Uptown Houston's.

And finally, our art district, once again, we are growing. We had vision. Our art district has been in continous growth with a beautiful master plan. THe Center for Performing Arts is adding multiple venues that will continue to make Dallas a World Class City. This will include Winspear Opera House, named for its benefactors, Margot and Bill Winspear who donated $42 million, will be a 2,200 seat opera house and the future home of the Dallas Opera.
Dee and Charles Wyly Theatre, named for its benefactors who donated $20 million, will be located in a 74,915-square-foot building of eleven stories. The theatre will hold about 600 people, depending upon the stage configuration.
City Performance Hall will provide performance spaces for many smaller performing arts organizations, and it will include a "black box" theater and a chamber music hall designed with flexible seating for several hundred. The final concept for the building is still underway based on an assessment of the needs of Dallas' arts organizations.
Grand Plaza, to be designed by a major urban developer and landscape designer, will create a campus-like environment which provides for tranquil walks, meetings with friends and spaces for quiet reflection. It will tie together all the theatre buildings with tree-lined streets, fountains and public art to create an urban oasis in downtown Dallas.
Annette Strauss Artist Square already exists as an outdoor venue for festivals, concerts and theatrical productions. However, it will be moved and renovated in time for the grand opening in 2009. Presently, the Square provides some of the most diverse selections of art, music and dance in Dallas.

And with the addition of the Woodall Rodgers Park this city will truly sparkle with a continous urban stream that will hopefully be very walkable in the future as more residents flock to the Arts District and across from the Woodall Rodgers Park in Uptown Dallas.

Now I'm not saying Houston is not growing. Houston's got great plans. It's a great city. No debate there. But the debate comes at the fact that lots of native Houston people have this negative impression of North Texas that I would like to clarify. And perhaps it's true for native Dallasites as well as I hear all the negatives of Houston up here. But as a person not originally from the area, I can say that DFW is growing, I can say that at this point, no one can say which MSA is going to win out, I can say that downtown/uptown Dallas is adding density, and that its rail traffic will grow, I'm not going to say it will stay ahead of Houston forever, though I think it has a good chance, I can say that Houston is indeed more international for now, but DFW could catch up, though it's like Houston people saying it's definitely going to catch up in terms of its rail....so it's a back and forth. At the end of the day, they're both great cities, they're both taking on other US cities head on, and that's why I've decided to stay down here...it's great to be part of this transformation from major city to major world class city.

But this is a debate a/b Chicago vs. Houston...so let's get back to the topic and let the Houston people try to convince the world that it will be more important than Chicago in the near future...and of course I will defend Chicago b/c I dont think that is happening anytime soon. And of course I hope Dallas takes the world stage over Chicago first than Houston...but of course, I dont think that will happen anytime soon either.

Last edited by metroplex2003; 06-14-2007 at 09:01 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-14-2007, 10:47 PM
 
Location: Texas
2,703 posts, read 247,155 times
Reputation: 206
Something I just found out, a 42 story residential tower is over 500 feet tall. So, a 66 story tower will be pretty high. Let's just say each floor is 11 feet.

Last edited by Guerilla; 06-14-2007 at 11:03 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-14-2007, 10:56 PM
 
Location: Henderson NV
1,134 posts, read 78,082 times
Reputation: 82
I understand ceilings for class 'A' office towers are not as high as ceilings for residential towers so that an office tower with 65 floors would have the same height as a residential tower with only 50 floors or so?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-14-2007, 11:03 PM
 
Location: Texas
2,703 posts, read 247,155 times
Reputation: 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by metroplex2003 View Post
Yes, but with 25 high rises under construction and 25-26 more coming, there will be a big infill into downtown dallas area.

It's fine and dandy to talk a/b how dense Houston is, perhaps more dense in its downtown, but not so much denser overall as a city compared to dallas when you look at the numbers: 2946 vs. 2951 people per sq mile using urbanized area stats, Dallas is growing. I think the Houston crowd needs to realize that.
Houston being on the denser side in urbanized areas (for the metro).

Quote:
As for Las Colinas, which I think is a great place in its own right and home to the world's largest company by valuation (Exxon-Mobil), Las Colinas has slowed its office growth and focused more attention on single family homes and townhomes. FOr the longest time, it's daytime population was at 100,000 people, but its city population dropped to 30,000 at night. It's a completely different environment...their focus is different. Whereas Houston downtown clearly has a competitor in Uptown Houston. They're separate from each other. Dallas downtown/uptown is continous and there is office space in uptown Dallas that you're not figuring into the downtown dallas stats.
Well, Exxon has most of their employees in Houston. The reason their HQ is actually in Irving is because the CEO grew up there. Most of the business deals are done down here. And you can't compare Uptown Houston to Uptown Dallas (in continuation with the city's downtowns). Houston has its Midtown, which is essentially its version of Dallas' Uptown. Both are separated by a single freeway, and both have new urban living developments.

Quote:
Your version of urban is density. I"m providing data that is showing that the downtown/uptown Dallas area is adding density to its urban core. It's doing so in the way of high rises. That's all I'm saying. Our downtown (not uptown) popululaton alone is going to double over the next 5 years and if you include uptown, it could conceivably have more people in the core than Houston's downtown.
Houston's core contains 14,000 people right now and growing. You have to remember that.

Quote:
Now comparing uptown Houston to las Colinas, I dont have numbers unless I look it up on uptown Houston, but what I do know is that Las Colinas has 30,000 people residing in what was supposed to be mainly a business district area and that number is projected to grow due to Las Colinas shift in focus to residential structures and increasing nighttime population, permanent residents. Communities such as La villita are perfect examples and also the lofts and condos going up in downtown Las Colinas. Las Colinas is probably comparable distance to downtown Dallas as uptown Houston to downtown Houston. Uptown Houston is clearly a competitor to downtown Houston like Las Colinas is to downtown/uptown Dallas.
Now, I can't find the exact numbers, but just by apartments in Houston's Uptown, there are 26,049 units. If just one person lives in each, that is 26,049 people. So, there must at least be over 30,000 there (not including condos). http://uptown-houston.com/economic/market/market_pdf/2007Edits/Res-UptownApartmentStats-4-2007.pdf (broken link)

Quote:
What I like a/b downtown/uptown Dallas is that they're continous with each other and does span multiple miles. Uptown has several office spaces as well as residential. One big moment for downtown Dallas is landing the 7-11 headquarters, which used to be up by the Galleria. THat's huge. It brings more people to the Urban core.
How many jobs will be moving down there because of that? And weren't you not so fond on Houston having most of its jobs in the core? Regardless, Houston's Midtown is in the same situation as Dallas' Uptown. Many new residential projects going up there. There aren't many office developments, because they go Downtown (just across the freeway). There are about five tall office towers off the top of my head that I can thing off going up in Downtown Houston. There are still more smaller ones, as well as some residential projects (including the Mandarin).

Quote:
Also Las Colinas continues to attract more headquarters and they're building not necessarily more high rises, but more mid to low rise buildings with lots of sq. footage per floor.
Oh and Las Colinas vs. Uptown Houston, which I think is fair: there's not as much difference as you would expect:
Uptown Houston 23.6 million sq. ft. office space Las Colinas: 22.3 million sq. ft THis goes with your theory that highrises dont always tell the story b/c clearly Las Colinas skyline is shorter than Uptown Houston's.
Yes, but Las Colinas has suburban campuses. Uptown Houston has tall office towers, BUT it also has many tall residential towers. Something Las Colinas does not have.

Quote:
And finally, our art district, once again, we are growing. We had vision. Our art district has been in continous growth with a beautiful master plan. THe Center for Performing Arts is adding multiple venues that will continue to make Dallas a World Class City. This will include Winspear Opera House, named for its benefactors, Margot and Bill Winspear who donated $42 million, will be a 2,200 seat opera house and the future home of the Dallas Opera. Dee and Charles Wyly Theatre, named for its benefactors who donated $20 million, will be located in a 74,915-square-foot building of eleven stories. The theatre will hold about 600 people, depending upon the stage configuration.
City Performance Hall will provide performance spaces for many smaller performing arts organizations, and it will include a "black box" theater and a chamber music hall designed with flexible seating for several hundred. The final concept for the building is still underway based on an assessment of the needs of Dallas' arts organizations. Grand Plaza, to be designed by a major urban developer and landscape designer, will create a campus-like environment which provides for tranquil walks, meetings with friends and spaces for quiet reflection. It will tie together all the theatre buildings with tree-lined streets, fountains and public art to create an urban oasis in downtown Dallas. Annette Strauss Artist Square already exists as an outdoor venue for festivals, concerts and theatrical productions. However, it will be moved and renovated in time for the grand opening in 2009. Presently, the Square provides some of the most diverse selections of art, music and dance in Dallas.
This is all great, but it still doesn't touch Houston's theater district at the moment (with the number of seats). Houston's theater district is not done expanding either. Also, Houston's Museum District is a growing place as well.

Quote:
And with the addition of the Woodall Rodgers Park this city will truly sparkle with a continous urban stream that will hopefully be very walkable in the future as more residents flock to the Arts District and across from the Woodall Rodgers Park in Uptown Dallas.
I'm excited about the Woodall Rodgers Park and the extension that is happening with it over the Trinity (construction started today), but Houston has a large park like that as well. The Buffalo Bayou Plan has a park extending under I-45 and connection with areas around Allen Plaza and Memorial Drive.

Quote:
Now I'm not saying Houston is not growing. Houston's got great plans. It's a great city. No debate there. But the debate comes at the fact that lots of native Houston people have this negative impression of North Texas that I would like to clarify. And perhaps it's true for native Dallasites as well as I hear all the negatives of Houston up here. But as a person not originally from the area, I can say that DFW is growing, I can say that at this point, no one can say which MSA is going to win out, I can say that downtown/uptown Dallas is adding density, and that its rail traffic will grow, I'm not going to say it will stay ahead of Houston forever, though I think it has a good chance, I can say that Houston is indeed more international for now, but DFW could catch up, though it's like Houston people saying it's definitely going to catch up in terms of its rail....so it's a back and forth. At the end of the day, they're both great cities, they're both taking on other US cities head on, and that's why I've decided to stay down here...it's great to be part of this transformation from major city to major world class city.
Yeah, both cities are doing great things. Houston's Red Line is seeing an increase in ridership as Midtown grows and grows. With the University Line (among others) ridership will grow. Houston international appeal won't be matched by any other city in Texas in my eyes though. Houston has the third most foreign consular offices in the U.S. (ahead of Chicago), and receives more international traffic than DFW.

Quote:
But this is a debate a/b Chicago vs. Houston...so let's get back to the topic and let the Houston people try to convince the world that it will be more important than Chicago in the near future...and of course I will defend Chicago b/c I dont think that is happening anytime soon. And of course I hope Dallas takes the world stage over Chicago first than Houston...but of course, I dont think that will happen anytime soon either.
I doubt Houston surpasses Chicago in importance anytime soon, but I do believe it goes up to the Beta World City before any other city in its tier (Dallas, Atlanta, Miami).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-14-2007, 11:09 PM
 
Location: Henderson NV
1,134 posts, read 78,082 times
Reputation: 82
Everything's cyclical.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $84,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top