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Unread 06-15-2007, 09:27 AM
 
Location: In God
3,073 posts, read 8,092,443 times
Reputation: 510
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supernova7 View Post
Since both Houston and Chicago are popular cities to live in, do you foresee Houston becoming like Chicago in the future? Given the exansion of people migrating there as well as building a new rail system? Maybe Houston will fill the sprawl with apartments, houses and small businesses? Your thoughts?
Most people (i.e. not me or Guerilla or KerrTown) will tell you that Houston is waaayyy worse off than Chicago, Houston is terrible, Houston is too sprawled, etc...but I think Houston's on the road of prosperity.
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Unread 06-15-2007, 09:53 AM
 
1,008 posts, read 2,603,544 times
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Yeah sure, anything is possible. I think Chicago is an EXCELLENT city to live in, one of the best in America. In my opinion if Houston fills the sprawl, builds the rail and gets new politicians it will be a very popular city. You can't do much about the heat but local government can build Houston for its citizens. If only politics don't get in the way but we know they will, one way or another, they seem to derail good things.
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Unread 06-15-2007, 01:28 PM
 
Location: Texas
2,703 posts
Reputation: 206
One thing I didn't know, the person who made Neiman-Marcus went to fashion school in Houston. They just visited Dallas, and found an easy place to lease. That's how it got started.
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Unread 06-15-2007, 05:26 PM
 
609 posts, read 1,970,785 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guerilla View Post
Houston being on the denser side in urbanized areas (for the metro).



Well, Exxon has most of their employees in Houston. The reason their HQ is actually in Irving is because the CEO grew up there. Most of the business deals are done down here. And you can't compare Uptown Houston to Uptown Dallas (in continuation with the city's downtowns). Houston has its Midtown, which is essentially its version of Dallas' Uptown. Both are separated by a single freeway, and both have new urban living developments.



Houston's core contains 14,000 people right now and growing. You have to remember that.



Now, I can't find the exact numbers, but just by apartments in Houston's Uptown, there are 26,049 units. If just one person lives in each, that is 26,049 people. So, there must at least be over 30,000 there (not including condos). http://uptown-houston.com/economic/market/market_pdf/2007Edits/Res-UptownApartmentStats-4-2007.pdf (broken link)



How many jobs will be moving down there because of that? And weren't you not so fond on Houston having most of its jobs in the core? Regardless, Houston's Midtown is in the same situation as Dallas' Uptown. Many new residential projects going up there. There aren't many office developments, because they go Downtown (just across the freeway). There are about five tall office towers off the top of my head that I can thing off going up in Downtown Houston. There are still more smaller ones, as well as some residential projects (including the Mandarin).



Yes, but Las Colinas has suburban campuses. Uptown Houston has tall office towers, BUT it also has many tall residential towers. Something Las Colinas does not have.



This is all great, but it still doesn't touch Houston's theater district at the moment (with the number of seats). Houston's theater district is not done expanding either. Also, Houston's Museum District is a growing place as well.



I'm excited about the Woodall Rodgers Park and the extension that is happening with it over the Trinity (construction started today), but Houston has a large park like that as well. The Buffalo Bayou Plan has a park extending under I-45 and connection with areas around Allen Plaza and Memorial Drive.



Yeah, both cities are doing great things. Houston's Red Line is seeing an increase in ridership as Midtown grows and grows. With the University Line (among others) ridership will grow. Houston international appeal won't be matched by any other city in Texas in my eyes though. Houston has the third most foreign consular offices in the U.S. (ahead of Chicago), and receives more international traffic than DFW.



I doubt Houston surpasses Chicago in importance anytime soon, but I do believe it goes up to the Beta World City before any other city in its tier (Dallas, Atlanta, Miami).
One final note: Houston's Uptown is much farther away from Houston's downtown than Dallas' uptown. Thus, las Colinas would be of equivalent distance. And comparing Las Colinas vs. Uptown Houston...you were making an argument that high rises dont necessarily matter, and I agreed...las Colinas has much shorter buildings, yet they have just a/b 1 million sq. ft. of office space less than Uptown Houston.

Uptown Dallas is essentially adjacent to Downtown Dallas...so it's more continous...which is beneficial in my opinion.

But which city will become Beta first...that really depends...both cities are up and coming. I dont think anyone can predict that. If one of the two cities wins the Olympics in the future and puts itself on the international stage...that might be what puts it over the top...since the Olympics in its own right will spur more development.

As for comparing amenities, you can debate back and forth which one is better...Houston's theater district vs. Dallas Arts Districts...one thing I can say is that we'll have newer stuff and more architecurally innovative stuff in our rapidly expanding district. The Museum Tower FYI is one of 3 50+ story residential towers going up. Has your 66 story tower been approved? Just wondering...b/c I havent seen it make Texas wide headlines yet.
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Unread 06-15-2007, 06:43 PM
 
609 posts, read 1,970,785 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metroplex2003 View Post
One final note: Houston's Uptown is much farther away from Houston's downtown than Dallas' uptown. Thus, las Colinas would be of equivalent distance. And comparing Las Colinas vs. Uptown Houston...you were making an argument that high rises dont necessarily matter, and I agreed...las Colinas has much shorter buildings, yet they have just a/b 1 million sq. ft. of office space less than Uptown Houston.

Uptown Dallas is essentially adjacent to Downtown Dallas...so it's more continous...which is beneficial in my opinion.

But which city will become Beta first...that really depends...both cities are up and coming. I dont think anyone can predict that. If one of the two cities wins the Olympics in the future and puts itself on the international stage...that might be what puts it over the top...since the Olympics in its own right will spur more development.

As for comparing amenities, you can debate back and forth which one is better...Houston's theater district vs. Dallas Arts Districts...one thing I can say is that we'll have newer stuff and more architecurally innovative stuff in our rapidly expanding district. The Museum Tower FYI is one of 3 50+ story residential towers going up. Has your 66 story tower been approved? Just wondering...b/c I havent seen it make Texas wide headlines yet.

As for Chicago, it will be some time before Dallas or Houston catches up to Chicago, no matter what the proper population of Houston is. I think Dallas and Houston should just focus on being Dallas and Houston. Both cities are successful, both of their citizens have their strong opinions a/b their cross state rivals. But in the end it's opinions. There will be no predicting who will win out. Though I do believe it will be Dallas, I cannot say for sure. And the Houston people have their confidences as well. But for now, Chicago will remain in between NY, LA, and the other cities: Dallas, Houston, DC Miami, Philly, Atlanta. But I do believe Dallas and Houston will continue to distance themselves from the cities below them. Houston will take over Philly's 5th spot ranking by the end of the decade easily.
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Unread 06-15-2007, 07:00 PM
 
Location: In God
3,073 posts, read 8,092,443 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metroplex2003 View Post
As for Chicago, it will be some time before Dallas or Houston catches up to Chicago, no matter what the proper population of Houston is.
I don't want Houston to surpass Chicago in any form. Certain cities should just always maintain a stable greatness. If Houston overcomes Chicago, then it will just be another Los Angeles: a city that becomes a major target for alleged lack of character and distinction, regardless of the fact that both are cities of much class.

Quote:
But for now, Chicago will remain in between NY, LA, and the other cities: Dallas, Houston, DC Miami, Philly, Atlanta. But I do believe Dallas and Houston will continue to distance themselves from the cities below them.
More like New York; Los Angeles and Chicago; Dallas, Houston, and D.C.; Atlanta, Philadelphia, and Miami
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Unread 06-15-2007, 07:33 PM
 
Location: Texas
2,703 posts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metroplex2003 View Post
One final note: Houston's Uptown is much farther away from Houston's downtown than Dallas' uptown. Thus, las Colinas would be of equivalent distance. And comparing Las Colinas vs. Uptown Houston...you were making an argument that high rises dont necessarily matter, and I agreed...las Colinas has much shorter buildings, yet they have just a/b 1 million sq. ft. of office space less than Uptown Houston. Uptown Dallas is essentially adjacent to Downtown Dallas...so it's more continous...which is beneficial in my opinion.
Take the names off of it. You have really the same areas. Uptown Houston is just six miles from Downtown Houston. Midtown is across the freeway from DT Houston. Las Colinas in Irving is six miles away from DT Dallas (I am assuming since you say they are the same distance). Uptown Dallas is just across the freeway from DT Dallas.

Quote:
But which city will become Beta first...that really depends...both cities are up and coming. I dont think anyone can predict that. If one of the two cities wins the Olympics in the future and puts itself on the international stage...that might be what puts it over the top...since the Olympics in its own right will spur more development.
That's true, and Houston has gotten farther in the Olympic Bid than Dallas. Even Governor Perry was surprised when Houston beat out Dallas for the 2012 Bid (though Houston ultimately lost in the Final Four). Houston was chosen again as a possible host to the 2016 Bid, but did lose on that one as well (with San Fran, Philly, and Los Angeles).

Quote:
As for comparing amenities, you can debate back and forth which one is better...Houston's theater district vs. Dallas Arts Districts...one thing I can say is that we'll have newer stuff and more architecurally innovative stuff in our rapidly expanding district. The Museum Tower FYI is one of 3 50+ story residential towers going up. Has your 66 story tower been approved? Just wondering...b/c I havent seen it make Texas wide headlines yet.
You may have the newer venues, but there are still new things in Houston's theater district as well. You have to remember, Houston's theater district is larger than Dallas' (I don't think Dallas has a theater district, but an Arts District instead). Our Museum District is rapidly expanding as well. And about that Museum Tower, that may not happen. The starting price is $1 Million for a 1400 square foot condo in Dallas. If they can get people to buy that, then more power to him. For the 66-story tower in Uptown, the land has already been bought. Demolition should occur soon.
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Unread 06-15-2007, 07:43 PM
 
Location: from houstoner to bostoner to new yorker;)
4,085 posts, read 7,854,602 times
Reputation: 1838
How my eyes bleed.

Broken record... it's like when the record keeps spinning and the needle's suspended above... broken record... broken record...

Guys, I REALLY don't think anyone else cares at this point, if they ever did. Can't y'all take this hugely pointless debate to PM? It's a nifty feature.
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Unread 06-15-2007, 08:19 PM
 
Location: Texas
2,703 posts
Reputation: 206
Don't click the topic then if you know what is going to happen. I enjoy debating.
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Unread 06-15-2007, 08:28 PM
 
Location: from houstoner to bostoner to new yorker;)
4,085 posts, read 7,854,602 times
Reputation: 1838
It's not just this thread. It's every other thread in this forum. You never know the Dallas vs. Houston minefield you're stepping into till you click and it's getting really, really old. You can debate via PM so that the rest of us don't have to be subjected to it repeatedly. This thread is supposed to be about Houston and Chicago, not Houston and Dallas.
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