U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
 
Old 06-18-2007, 02:45 PM
 
Location: from houstoner to bostoner to new yorker;)
4,085 posts, read 8,332,608 times
Reputation: 1854
Yeah, probably. Texas leads the nation in executions, IIRC. There's also a movement to abolish it, but it seems that type of news doesn't reach California.

It's not that the politicians are conservative and the locals are liberals, not the case at all, it's just that Texas politics and people aren't as black and white and monolithic as the media makes them out to be. What I object to are the left wing nuts who seem to want to paint life in Texas with a broad brush and say that ALL THE 24 MILLION PEOPLE who live here feel the same way about a particular issue. Texans are not a monolith. Do you know how HUGE this state is? Attitudes vary by town, by region. You're talking about Houston and Texas in the same breath. Google Texas and Houston politics, I'm sure there's plenty stuff out there to read to get you up to speed.

Last edited by neotextist; 06-18-2007 at 02:53 PM..
Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-18-2007, 02:53 PM
 
1,008 posts, read 2,763,003 times
Reputation: 235
I would agree to an extent, with regard to the media. Texas is a big state and not everyone shares the same political views. However, I think it's fair and appropriate to say that Texas leans far more conservative than it does liberal (as a whole) if you were to poll overyone. Also, I think the same would ring true in Houston. Pockets may be lberal and sure there are Kerry supporters but let's not kid ourselves that this is still George Bush's state. Texas does lead the nation, if not the world, in executions, harsh sentencing and right wing militia groups.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-18-2007, 03:07 PM
 
Location: from houstoner to bostoner to new yorker;)
4,085 posts, read 8,332,608 times
Reputation: 1854
What do you mean by George Bush's state? Do you recall how close the race was?

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/countymapredbluelarge.png (broken link)

Texas leads the nation, I don't know about the world.

Which right wing militia groups are these? Do you think they represent all of Texas just as neo-Nazi groups represent all of Oregon?
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-18-2007, 03:33 PM
 
1,008 posts, read 2,763,003 times
Reputation: 235
I meant just what I said. Yes, I recall the race and yes Bush won, so the "majority" of people wanted Bush to win. This goes back to what I stated that Texas leans more conservative than liberal. Not that there's anything wrong with that but it's still a fact based on the results. It wouldn't surprise me if it lead the world in executions. Do I think militia groups represent ALL of Texas? I don't know where you came up with that as I've never mentioned anything close to that. I stated that there are A LOT of right wing militia groups in Texas and NO I don't think that Nazi's represent all of Oregon....lol

You have a vivid imagination and a peculiar defensiveness for someone proclaiming to be "liberal"......LOL

Anyhow, what do the rest of you think about both of the governor's? (earlier qiuestion)
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-18-2007, 04:21 PM
 
Location: from houstoner to bostoner to new yorker;)
4,085 posts, read 8,332,608 times
Reputation: 1854
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supernova7 View Post
I meant just what I said. Yes, I recall the race and yes Bush won, so the "majority" of people wanted Bush to win. This goes back to what I stated that Texas leans more conservative than liberal. Not that there's anything wrong with that but it's still a fact based on the results. It wouldn't surprise me if it lead the world in executions. Do I think militia groups represent ALL of Texas? I don't know where you came up with that as I've never mentioned anything close to that. I stated that there are A LOT of right wing militia groups in Texas and NO I don't think that Nazi's represent all of Oregon....lol

You have a vivid imagination and a peculiar defensiveness for someone proclaiming to be "liberal"......LOL

Anyhow, what do the rest of you think about both of the governor's? (earlier qiuestion)
I'm liberal, but I'm not a knee-jerk liberal, as I indicated earlier. I prefer to think for myself, thanks. In one of the many other threads you started, I pointed you to information on politics and 2004 presidential election results in Houston, so I won't retread that territory. I'm responding to your statement that Texas leads the nation in right wing militia groups. I'd like to know which groups and where you're getting your information from, or are you just regurgitating something you've heard? I'm genuinely curious. I know that with the exception of parts of East and North Texas, this state is pretty kook-friendly and live and let live, and that we've got all kinds of weirdos and extremists within our borders because of this, but I wasn't aware that we lead the nation in right wing militia groups.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-18-2007, 04:46 PM
 
1,008 posts, read 2,763,003 times
Reputation: 235
Yes, and I already answered this in my initial post and my last post. I don't know why it's hard for you to understand. Let me break it down...I recognize that Texas is filled with many different political views, and I never stated otherwise, you somehow thought I didn't see this, when I clearly indicated that "based on the election RESULTS" more people voted for Bush. This is a fact and can't be denied, that's all I mentioned. In regards to your inquiry, yes, that is a FACT, and it is based on numerous articles I have accessed and researched on the internet, in addition to people who have lived in Texas and the media attention this has received over the years. I believe them to be credible sources and if you take the time to do some personal and honest research you'll come to the same conclusion. Have a good day
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-18-2007, 04:53 PM
 
609 posts, read 2,069,741 times
Reputation: 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supernova7 View Post
I meant just what I said. Yes, I recall the race and yes Bush won, so the "majority" of people wanted Bush to win. This goes back to what I stated that Texas leans more conservative than liberal. Not that there's anything wrong with that but it's still a fact based on the results. It wouldn't surprise me if it lead the world in executions. Do I think militia groups represent ALL of Texas? I don't know where you came up with that as I've never mentioned anything close to that. I stated that there are A LOT of right wing militia groups in Texas and NO I don't think that Nazi's represent all of Oregon....lol

You have a vivid imagination and a peculiar defensiveness for someone proclaiming to be "liberal"......LOL

Anyhow, what do the rest of you think about both of the governor's? (earlier qiuestion)
Here's my take on the Texas political situation since I think it's obvious no one wants to talk a/b Chicago vs. Houston anymore. I think we need moderation. I think having too many Left wingers and too many right wingers is a bad thing. Now, in terms of Houston being conservative, I'm sure Houston proper voted for Kerry. I'm sure Suburban Houston voted for Bush. But overall it's too my belief we need moderation, otherwise nothing gets done. I know there are strong feelings a/b death penalty, even abortion, stem cell research, etc. But there are things that people can find middle ground on, and rather than tacking on things that no one will agree to on legislation, perhaps we need to focus on things that need to get done in Texas.

For example, improving our infrastructure. The Trans-Texas Cooridor needs to be planned right if it's to be done at all. High speed rail is still on the table and could connect our two largest MSA's Dallas and Houston. I believe we need to have a minimum of 6 lanes b/t Houston and Dallas, and between Dallas and San Antonio.
Instead of attacking our companies that provide thousands of jobs here, we need to work to convince them to go to the alternative fuels such as hydrogen, so they can mass produce it and they can inject money into our state and local economies before a state like California beats us to the punch in a few decades. We need to continue to invest in places like Houston and Dallas and work to continue to diversify their economies so they can withstand certain industry specific recessions. Houston and Dallas are our flagship cities and we need to make sure they continue to prosper and succeed on the world stage.
We need to continue to work to make UTSW, Baylor, and UT Houston among the top centers for health care in this country. More NIH funding equates to more educated citizens relocating in Texas, and it puts more of our instituations on the international spotlight.
We also need to be smart...part of our attraction, whether some on this board will agree or disagree is our low cost of living. We need to continue to strive for a low cost of living, yet offer urban amenities that people who are moving here from the coast desire. AFterall, we do not have any real good beach/ocean or mountains in our two largest metropolitan areas Dallas and Houston to market. So we need to market other aspects that makes us great. One is we're modern. one is we have a low cost of living. One is we got world reknowned health care centers in UTSW and Baylor.
One is that we're reasonably close to outdoor recreation in the Hill COuntry or at South Padre. We need to think a/b developing our southern texas coast the way the other gulf states have developed theirs.

Lots of things, but it takes effort and good planning.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-18-2007, 06:10 PM
 
1,008 posts, read 2,763,003 times
Reputation: 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by metroplex2003 View Post
Here's my take on the Texas political situation since I think it's obvious no one wants to talk a/b Chicago vs. Houston anymore. I think we need moderation. I think having too many Left wingers and too many right wingers is a bad thing. Now, in terms of Houston being conservative, I'm sure Houston proper voted for Kerry. I'm sure Suburban Houston voted for Bush. But overall it's too my belief we need moderation, otherwise nothing gets done. I know there are strong feelings a/b death penalty, even abortion, stem cell research, etc. But there are things that people can find middle ground on, and rather than tacking on things that no one will agree to on legislation, perhaps we need to focus on things that need to get done in Texas.

For example, improving our infrastructure. The Trans-Texas Cooridor needs to be planned right if it's to be done at all. High speed rail is still on the table and could connect our two largest MSA's Dallas and Houston. I believe we need to have a minimum of 6 lanes b/t Houston and Dallas, and between Dallas and San Antonio.
Instead of attacking our companies that provide thousands of jobs here, we need to work to convince them to go to the alternative fuels such as hydrogen, so they can mass produce it and they can inject money into our state and local economies before a state like California beats us to the punch in a few decades. We need to continue to invest in places like Houston and Dallas and work to continue to diversify their economies so they can withstand certain industry specific recessions. Houston and Dallas are our flagship cities and we need to make sure they continue to prosper and succeed on the world stage.
We need to continue to work to make UTSW, Baylor, and UT Houston among the top centers for health care in this country. More NIH funding equates to more educated citizens relocating in Texas, and it puts more of our instituations on the international spotlight.
We also need to be smart...part of our attraction, whether some on this board will agree or disagree is our low cost of living. We need to continue to strive for a low cost of living, yet offer urban amenities that people who are moving here from the coast desire. AFterall, we do not have any real good beach/ocean or mountains in our two largest metropolitan areas Dallas and Houston to market. So we need to market other aspects that makes us great. One is we're modern. one is we have a low cost of living. One is we got world reknowned health care centers in UTSW and Baylor.
One is that we're reasonably close to outdoor recreation in the Hill COuntry or at South Padre. We need to think a/b developing our southern texas coast the way the other gulf states have developed theirs.

Lots of things, but it takes effort and good planning.

Actually, we were discussing comparisons between both cities, before it turned in to a Dallas thread. No big deal, just wanted to point that out. This thread is about comparing both cities and lastly we were comparing the Governor's and their agendas for each city. I read your post and concur with what you stated. I merely pointed out the facts related to Texas/Houston politics, they are what they are. I never indicated that we don't need both and I agree with you 100% we need a fair balance of views, now how we come to a middle ground is another story but yes, a compendium of views deserves consideration. "Effort and good planning" is something that every city preaches but seldom follows through on. I believe we as Americans can make our cities better for the locals and those moving to them but we need to reach agreements and that's easier said than done.

Also let me add that you need to invest in social issues before you invest in urban development. The roads can wait, our buildings can wait but we won't have anything without a future to run this country.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-18-2007, 07:03 PM
 
609 posts, read 2,069,741 times
Reputation: 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supernova7 View Post
Actually, we were discussing comparisons between both cities, before it turned in to a Dallas thread. No big deal, just wanted to point that out. This thread is about comparing both cities and lastly we were comparing the Governor's and their agendas for each city. I read your post and concur with what you stated. I merely pointed out the facts related to Texas/Houston politics, they are what they are. I never indicated that we don't need both and I agree with you 100% we need a fair balance of views, now how we come to a middle ground is another story but yes, a compendium of views deserves consideration. "Effort and good planning" is something that every city preaches but seldom follows through on. I believe we as Americans can make our cities better for the locals and those moving to them but we need to reach agreements and that's easier said than done.

Also let me add that you need to invest in social issues before you invest in urban development. The roads can wait, our buildings can wait but we won't have anything without a future to run this country.
I do feel that Houston being a newer American city has done a good job with its planning and infrastructure...of course there are rooms for improvment...but I would like to think that the Texas Transportation Board has been a leader in urban planning and has looked at the mistakes of northern cities and done a great job with our freeways.

As for social views, it's hard...it's hard on a national scale, it's hard on a state-wide scale, it's hard on a local scale. Everyone has their views. I have mine. YOu have yours. And there are people that are real passionate a/b the social views. But it's an empty set solution. I do think there is common ground on some social views: education is one...where I dont think there is any citizen in the state of Texas that wouldnt like to have their kids educated well...now there's disagreements on how to go about doing that...but it's a general consensus...
But in terms of death penalty or abortion, this is an age long debate that there is probably no common ground to find. You're either pro choice or you're not...and if you're not, well, after 30 years of hearing this debate, it's likely not going to change anytime soon, if you're pro choice, well, then you're in the majority of urban centers in this country.
Death penalty, either you're for or against, you're not going to change people's mind.
But this is a forum about cities...I dont think the presence of the death penalty in this state has hindered Houston growth considering Houston remains as one of the fastest growing MSA's in the country. If it were repealed in Texas and prohibited, I still dont think it will hinder Houston's growth in anyway. I think what makes urban centers like Houston, Chicago, Dallas, NYC, Philly, LA great is that you have opinions from all circles who like to spend time debating subjects that are great for conversation such as this one, but in the grand scheme of things will continue to be at a stalemate for several years to come. Does it affect growth of a city? Have yet to see any research article that sways one way or another. Now education may...but then again, education is hard to stress on the family unit level...it's a two pronged approach...a family culture is just as accountable for the education of children as the resources we as a country provide through our property tax. It's easy to legislate the latter, it's hard to legislate the former, b/c that would require changing cultures withing individual family units.
What other topics so we can get back to discussing cities, stem cell research...very controversial...will it affect Houston growth...perhaps in the medical city and also at Chicago's U of C and Northwestern Campuses, but once again, you can get both arguments...stem cells from adults are viable...it's a known fact in the medical community...and at the same time, embryonic stem cells are viable to be used for regrowth of organs as well...so take your side...liberal or conservative...at this point, it may become a mute point with the next election since REpublicans are on course to elect a moderate or the Democrats' Obama or Hillary. But in terms of the state of Texas, it probably affects NIH funding at the Med Center in Houston, and it may recruit some educated people to the state...

But you're right, social issues matter if it means that our future generations are less educated. B/c for a democracy to work, you need to have educated people making educated and responsible decisions. But you also need to look at the micro economics of it all. Everything boils down to individual preferences. What do people want out of their govt., their city, their neighborhood. I truly believe American's prefer a hybrid of Europe and Asia. We have govt. regulation, yet we provide a market of incentives for people to work hard. We're not purely free enterprise, we're not purely socialistic, this is what makes our country great and the great cities of Houston and Chicago great.

So let's get back to discussing the comparisons to Houston and Chicago. There was a discussion a/b the parks system of Chicago vs. Houston...to me, you have to include Bay Area Houston, and there are lots of Gulf Coast rec activities. Chicago people will point to their Lake. Well, Houston has the gulf plus some nice lakes.

Last edited by metroplex2003; 06-18-2007 at 08:05 PM..
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-19-2007, 06:55 AM
 
Location: from houstoner to bostoner to new yorker;)
4,085 posts, read 8,332,608 times
Reputation: 1854
Huh. According to the Southern Poverty Law Center, it looks like your beloved California leads the nation in hate groups (and probably hate incidents, but I didn't click on all 50 states). Geez, but it must be so GOSH DARN LIBERAL AND PROGRESSIVE since you live there. Whodathunkit?

SPLCenter.org: Hate Groups Map

Hate incidents for California in 2007
SPLCenter.org: Hatewatch

Hate incidents for Texas in 2007
SPLCenter.org: Hatewatch

Just to make this relevant to the thread, there have been no reported hate incidents in Illinois so far this year or last, compared to the one incident in Texas (a KKK rally with twelve members) this year and 6 last year (and the 18 in California this year and 40 last year, more than in most, if not all, Southern states combined... after reading all these threads on the subject, I'm not sure which states qualify as Southern anymore ). But apparently the "numerous articles" you've read suggest otherwise?

Last edited by neotextist; 06-19-2007 at 08:05 AM.. Reason: adding the last couple sentences
Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:
Over $84,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top