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Old 06-18-2007, 01:44 PM
 
Location: Burkina Faso
421 posts, read 604,870 times
Reputation: 115

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You should also add Dayton, Pittsburgh, and Syracuse to that list.

I would drop Grand Rapids, as it doesn't really fit the rust belt mold.
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Old 06-18-2007, 03:32 PM
 
Location: Wi for the summer--Vegas in the winter
653 posts, read 3,134,435 times
Reputation: 259
I would say Milwaukee. HOPEFULLY so!! A city with such a proud past hopefuly can overcome some of the negative things it is currently experiencing. The city is FAR from dead. What is does need is a "Shot" of good leadership--both at city hall and with the PD!!
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Old 06-18-2007, 04:48 PM
 
2,359 posts, read 8,192,402 times
Reputation: 1102
Some Stats

Job Growth 1990 - 2006

Non-rust-belt cities

Minneapolis-St. Paul-Bloomington, MN-WI
1990...1,414,463
2006...1,776,239

Kansas City, MO-KS
1990...835,630
2006...985,099

Columbus, OH
1990...728,058
2006...894,178

Indianapolis, IN
1990...671,589
2006...863,631


Rust-belt Cities

Detroit-Warren-Livonia, MI
1990...1,944,008
2006...2,012,527

Cleveland-Elyria-Mentor, OH
1990...977,409
2006...1,034,758

Pittsburgh, PA
1990...1,090,296
2006...1,145,722

Milwaukee-Waukesha-West Allis, WI
1990...715,325
2006...753,119

Buffalo-Niagara Falls, NY
1990...556,379
2006...554,959

Rochester, NY
1990...505,187
2006...511,100

Syracuse, NY
1990...321,036
2006...315,713

Toledo, OH
1990...305,426
2006...319,150

source: Metropolitan (MSA) Employment and Unemployment Data

Upstate NY is clearly the worst of the worst. Hopefully, with our new Governor...Elliot Spitzer...he bring job growth back to Syracuse and Buffalo etc. Will Elliot Spitzer bring more of the same to Upstate NY (empty promises of revitalizing the economy of CNY and WNY) or will he finally change the culture in Albany? That is the question. So far Spitzer has done very little to show that he is committed to his campaign promise to bring back the Upstate NY economy. Making Upstate NY a better place to do business is very tough since downstate politicians don't give a darn about all the anti-business polices that are killing industry in Upstate. The main focus of the State is on NYC and until that changes, I don't see how Upstate NY can grow much....
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Old 06-18-2007, 04:58 PM
MB2
 
Location: Sebastian/ FL
3,496 posts, read 8,701,576 times
Reputation: 2700
Question Paul...where the heck are you????

I see hope for Scranton, Wilkes-Barre and Hazleton (all in PA) in the future !
Those cities populations are growing, as well as real estate, job markets and outside company/ employers making those areas their new homes....all a very good sign of growth.
It might take a little time, overall, but, you can't rush progress and Rome wasn't built in one day either.
If we are laying the stepping stones now, it will undoubtly come to fruitation.
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Old 06-18-2007, 05:11 PM
 
Location: Midwest
1,903 posts, read 7,285,888 times
Reputation: 464
"Richard J Daley doesn't dine here anymore. He's dead, sir."

Anyone ever watch Blues Brothers? Chicago back then was a definitive rust belt city. Since then, Chicago and Pittsburgh have made comebacks, with Chicago becoming a global city integrated with the Midwest region.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanUrbanite View Post
Which rustbelt city has the best chance of turning around? None of them. They're all going to stagnate at best. Blue collar is out. White collar is in.

All of the Midwest cities are undesirable IMO. Only KC, Twin Cities, Indy and Columbus are worth living in.
Read Global Chicago by Charles Madigan and then get back to us. I still maintain that Milwaukee and Pittsburgh are underrated. If you need to bash Detroit because it makes you feel better, have a great day then.
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Old 06-18-2007, 06:34 PM
 
Location: Houston Texas
2,898 posts, read 2,882,263 times
Reputation: 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by bellafinzi View Post
Some Stats

Job Growth 1990 - 2006

Non-rust-belt cities

Minneapolis-St. Paul-Bloomington, MN-WI
1990...1,414,463
2006...1,776,239

Kansas City, MO-KS
1990...835,630
2006...985,099

Columbus, OH
1990...728,058
2006...894,178

Indianapolis, IN
1990...671,589
2006...863,631


Rust-belt Cities

Detroit-Warren-Livonia, MI
1990...1,944,008
2006...2,012,527

Cleveland-Elyria-Mentor, OH
1990...977,409
2006...1,034,758

Pittsburgh, PA
1990...1,090,296
2006...1,145,722

Milwaukee-Waukesha-West Allis, WI
1990...715,325
2006...753,119

Buffalo-Niagara Falls, NY
1990...556,379
2006...554,959

Rochester, NY
1990...505,187
2006...511,100

Syracuse, NY
1990...321,036
2006...315,713

Toledo, OH
1990...305,426
2006...319,150

source: Metropolitan (MSA) Employment and Unemployment Data

Upstate NY is clearly the worst of the worst. Hopefully, with our new Governor...Elliot Spitzer...he bring job growth back to Syracuse and Buffalo etc. Will Elliot Spitzer bring more of the same to Upstate NY (empty promises of revitalizing the economy of CNY and WNY) or will he finally change the culture in Albany? That is the question. So far Spitzer has done very little to show that he is committed to his campaign promise to bring back the Upstate NY economy. Making Upstate NY a better place to do business is very tough since downstate politicians don't give a darn about all the anti-business polices that are killing industry in Upstate. The main focus of the State is on NYC and until that changes, I don't see how Upstate NY can grow much....
I agree that upstate NY has problems with jobs, although Rochester is slowly overcoming the impact of losses from kodak. The taxes being so high seems to be a roadblock also to businesses locating here. The upstate region is a great place to live other than the economic stagnation, it's a shame that the politicians in NY haven't been giving more attention to helping upstate out, instead of putting all their attention into NYC!
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Old 06-18-2007, 06:46 PM
 
Location: St. Louis, MO
3,742 posts, read 6,914,308 times
Reputation: 660
Louisville is what I'd call an ex-rustbelt city. It is not declining today..it is gaining in population quite steadily and much of the old run-down stuff is not that old and run-down to me.
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Old 06-18-2007, 06:57 PM
 
Location: St. Louis, MO
3,742 posts, read 6,914,308 times
Reputation: 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattDen View Post
I think most rust-belt metropolitan areas are pretty prosperous overall Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Detroit, St. Louis, Milwaukee and Cincinnati despite all the doom and gloom are still overall very prosperous metropolitan areas just as prosperous as many sun-belt metropolitan areas in fact. I am sure their growth rates are probubly not nearly as impressive as many sun-belt cities but these rust-belt cities were at the top for so many years with good manufacuturing and many large corperations unlike many sun-belt cities.

Cleveland, Ohio could go from being one of the most crime-ridden, poverty-ridden cities in the country to being in the middle of the pack if it annexed all of Cuyahoga county and became a city of 1.3 million people. Pittsburgh, PA would go from being a rather violent, poor city to being one of the most affluent and safest if it could just magically annex Allegheny County overnight. So this has more to do with annexation then anything else. The thing is unlike with sun-belt cities with a vast majority of the county populations living in their quaint suburbs its very, very unlikely that any of these cities would ever annex the entire counties.

I am sure Louisville, Kentucky looks good now since it annexed all of Jefferson County its gone from being a violent, declining city to being a middle-class, low-crime city for its size.

The problem is more with the inner-cities with-in the rust-belt metropolitan areas which have severe problems because they are so boxed in. Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Detroit, Cincinnati, St. Louis, Milwaukee all have had massive population declines in their cities over the years and have had alot of the wealthier previous residents out-migrate to the suburbs which has caused massive problems for their tax bases. Unlike sun-belt cities which can annex alot because they dont have lots of old suburbs alot of these rust-belt cities are filled with suburbs which would object to becoming part of the poor city so thus these rust-belt cities continue to be unable to provide even basic services such as public safety to the extent needed so property values decrease and its a big cycle.

Overall, I dont think its so much of a metropolitan issue as its a city proper issue and the city with the best chance of turning it around will be the one to gentrify the largest percentage of the city first. Alot of these rust-belt cities to turn around really need to either annex or gentrify neither one is easy.

I was going to say Pittsburgh but they are probubly 2nd. Pittsburgh does have a massive higher education base, lots of medical, very large corperate city. But the city itself is very boxed in and unable to annex so that causes some issues. I remember looking up Allegheny county is being suprised that its overall a very affluent county with the suburbs but the city overall has major issues unlike the metropolitan area which is rather prosperous.

As metropolitan areas, yes I would agree that all the cities you've mentioned in the Midwest region (St. Louis, Detroit, Milwaukee, Cleveland, Cincinnati, (could Pittsburgh count as Midwest? I think it could) are quite prosperous and much more respectable cities (as respectable IMO) as any Sunbelt city. St. Louis and Cleveland I know in particular still have many important corporations headquartered there (Scott-Trade, A.G. Edwards, Anheuser Busch, Hardee's, Energizer, Pevely, Ralston-Purina, st. louis is also home to the largest architectural firm in the world as well as a major center for AT&T and US Bank, there is also Enterprise, many fortune 500 companies). Cleveland has Key Bank, National City, Eaton, Progessive, Fifth and Third Bank, and more..roughly about as many as St. Louis.
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Old 06-19-2007, 06:35 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 27 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,034 posts, read 102,707,476 times
Reputation: 33083
By MattDen:
Quote:
I think most rust-belt metropolitan areas are pretty prosperous overall Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Detroit, St. Louis, Milwaukee and Cincinnati despite all the doom and gloom are still overall very prosperous metropolitan areas just as prosperous as many sun-belt metropolitan areas in fact.
I was just in Pittsburgh last week. Parts look prosperous, parts look like heck! My hometown of Beaver Falls looks like a ghost town with people living in it. The library is in such bad shape Andrew Carnegie would roll over in his grave if he saw it. The Pittsburgh area lost more population since 2000 than any city except New Orleans. It was one of only a few cities to lose population in those years. There are simply very few jobs there.
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Old 06-20-2007, 09:02 AM
 
Location: The great state of New Hampshire
792 posts, read 2,904,780 times
Reputation: 430
Most of these cities mentioned in the context of "rustbelt" make me chuckle when you contrast them to many smaller New England cities and particularly cities in upstate New York. Cinci, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Milwaukee, Kansas City??? Huh? Folks, the eyes don't lie and the stats don't lie. Spend a little time getting to know Elmira, Binghamton, Utica, Syracuse, even Buffalo to name a few. It's not even a contest. Only Detroit amongst these other large cities I've seen mentioned falls into the category of thse rustbelts.
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