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To the other poster. Young people have more loan debt than the entire credit card debt of our country. It is horrendous. Yet, they are being convinced that they can borrow their way to success vis-a-vis a college degree. Sure stats show that a college educated person can earn more money, but those stats do not include the merciless debt accrued to get the degree. Most grads now are not finding jobs never mind making enough to pay back loans. And, you cannot bankrupt out of student loans. Look into Pareto's Law. There will always be 20% who will make the most. That obtains across the board. There are plenty of Vo Tech grads out there who are making good money in more "secure" careers than college grads; especially grads in "soft" skilled areas e.g. law and business, humanities generally.
We have had a massive paradigm shift in our society and economy. The old "rules" no longer apply. Buyer beware and that includes college degrees even from "flagship" schools.
You know, it would be a good thing if this could be shouted to these young people.
To the other poster. Young people have more loan debt than the entire credit card debt of our country. It is horrendous. Yet, they are being convinced that they can borrow their way to success vis-a-vis a college degree. Sure stats show that a college educated person can earn more money, but those stats do not include the merciless debt accrued to get the degree. Most grads now are not finding jobs never mind making enough to pay back loans. And, you cannot bankrupt out of student loans. Look into Pareto's Law. There will always be 20% who will make the most. That obtains across the board. There are plenty of Vo Tech grads out there who are making good money in more "secure" careers than college grads; especially grads in "soft" skilled areas e.g. law and business, humanities generally.
We have had a massive paradigm shift in our society and economy. The old "rules" no longer apply. Buyer beware and that includes college degrees even from "flagship" schools.
You know, it would be a good thing if this could be shouted to these young people.
Are you being serious?
I, and I think -most- others here, will agree we need to make college more accessible and affordable.
But the fact your choosing to pick on UGA (and North Campus in particular) is starting to make your argument incoherent as it is one of the cheaper options around for local students and considered one of the best values.
and as far as the old rules not applying and paradigm shifts... Stop reading so many doom and gloom articles that are written every time there is some little change or a recession. The statistics continue to show the higher the educational attainment the more people get paid and less likely to be unemployed and unemployed for shorter periods of time.
If you want your argument to be taken more seriously... I'd at least choose a school were people are paying $30,000-50,000/year to go to without the status of an Ivy League college.
I spent 7 years at UGA. Earned 3 degrees and had the Hope Scholarship for 3 years, a research assistantship for 1 year, an undergraduate teaching assistantship for 1 semester, and worked the whole time. I got some limited financial support from the family, but paid most of my own bills. I graduated each time debt free. While I understand not everyone can do that and not everyone is as lucky to find the opportunity and have the support that I had, it is really hard to convince me, that it wasn't worth the value. The in-state students coming out of UGA don't carry -that- much student loan debt, unless they really didn't really try, worked at all, or blew too much money through private expenses. I would say most my friends were able to easily pay it down within a few years of graduating with no problems.
I have yet to see any labor economics research that shows higher rates of return on a vocation degree from a technical school over a major university degree at large.
Don't get me wrong I support vocational programs... We don't need everyone to go to a major university. Most aren't prepared for it either, but that that doesn't mean their education can't be advanced in a meaningful, productive way. However, at the end of the day the numbers don't skew in favor of vocational degrees/certificates over a standard university diploma (even in the humanities).
I also wouldn't underestimate the amount of productivity white collar office jobs provide in our economy. That part of our economy employees alot of people into fairly well paying jobs.
By design, 20 percent of Auburn University's enrollment is reserved for Georgia residents ... not as a favor to the neighboring state but TO BRING IN REVENUE! Students from a handful of Georgia counties on the state line (Muscogee, Troup, Harris, etc.) are considered "in-state" by Auburn; otherwise Georgians get a discount on the cost of out-of-state tuition Auburn charges students from other states. Before HOPE, this discount made the cost for a Georgia student to attend Auburn comparable to the cost to attend Georgia universities, and so it was not much an issue in deciding where to go. When HOPE hit its prime in the late 1990s, Auburn not only saw a big decline in enrollment but a significant drop in $$$ as well. Through aggressive recruitment and promotion to its huge Metro Atlanta alumni base, Auburn has been able to reverse the decline. Winning the national football championship can only help. But it still remains a tough sell to convince Georgia's brightest students to PAY to go there, when they can essentially attend Tech or Uga for free.
BTW -- I know this because I once was city editor of the Opelika-Auburn Daily News and sat through AU trustee meetings at which this topic was discussed in great detail. AU relies on Georgians to pay a LOT of the bills, because so much state funding gets funneled to the University of Alabama instead. They do not have a statewide university system like Georgia does: instead all the colleges in Alabama have to compete against each other for $$, etc. It's very very defeating IMO.
By design, 20 percent of Auburn University's enrollment is reserved for Georgia residents ... not as a favor to the neighboring state but TO BRING IN REVENUE! Students from a handful of Georgia counties on the state line (Muscogee, Troup, Harris, etc.) are considered "in-state" by Auburn; otherwise Georgians get a discount on the cost of out-of-state tuition Auburn charges students from other states. Before HOPE, this discount made the cost for a Georgia student to attend Auburn comparable to the cost to attend Georgia universities, and so it was not much an issue in deciding where to go. When HOPE hit its prime in the late 1990s, Auburn not only saw a big decline in enrollment but a significant drop in $$$ as well. Through aggressive recruitment and promotion to its huge Metro Atlanta alumni base, Auburn has been able to reverse the decline. Winning the national football championship can only help. But it still remains a tough sell to convince Georgia's brightest students to PAY to go there, when they can essentially attend Tech or Uga for free.
BTW -- I know this because I once was city editor of the Opelika-Auburn Daily News and sat through AU trustee meetings at which this topic was discussed in great detail. AU relies on Georgians to pay a LOT of the bills, because so much state funding gets funneled to the University of Alabama instead. They do not have a statewide university system like Georgia does: instead all the colleges in Alabama have to compete against each other for $$, etc. It's very very defeating IMO.
Thanks for this. I looked so hard trying to find the details of this. I knew something like this was set up in the past, but for the life of my couldn't find a source for the details.
Thanks for this. I looked so hard trying to find the details of this. I knew something like this was set up in the past, but for the life of my couldn't find a source for the details.
You're very welcome!
BTW ... the "quality" of Georgia students that Auburn attracts is still a major concern for them. This isn't exactly discussed openly by the folks there, but many of the Georgia kids who eventually go to Auburn were first rejected by UGA, Tech, Georgia State, etc. Auburn was not their first choice. So Auburn has quite a few academic scholarships that go to Georgia students exclusively to try and reverse that trend. Still, I think it's been like a finger in the dyke for them. My understanding is that Clemson has suffered the same fate as well.
stickers have to do with the football team, not with the school. another misconception
ive met many people who have attended and lectured there over the years. not one had a shining comment. as always it depends on the department itself
Well at least UGA's really good at fooling the university rankings!
I guess it speaks to the relative strength of the school to look at the arguments of UGA grads and non-UGA grads ITT. I mean, seriously, who needs compilations of admissions and achievement data when you've got some anecdotal discussions with people who went there or taught there? Overrated it is!
I, and I think -most- others here, will agree we need to make college more accessible and affordable. well, of course, i would also like to make gasoline more affordable but the facts dictate other truths.
But the fact your choosing to pick on UGA (and North Campus in particular) is starting to make your argument incoherent as it is one of the cheaper options around for local students and considered one of the best values.pick on uga? costs apply to higher edu across the board. uga was the subject matter first introduced by the op. pick any school. costs are relative. a "poorer" family/student costs are proportionate to the family/student ability to pay. a "good deal" at uga is relative.
and as far as the old rules not applying and paradigm shifts... Stop reading so many doom and gloom articles that are written every time there is some little change or a recession. The statistics continue to show the higher the educational attainment the more people get paid and less likely to be unemployed and unemployed for shorter periods of time.stop reading? do you mean ignore the economic facts of the nation/world? ignore a 14 trillion dollar debt? over 10 percent unemployment in GA alone? a collapsed real estate market that may not ever climb back up in our life times? the fact that 2 graduating classes are struggling massively to find any sort of employment? perhaps you ought to do more reading.
If you want your argument to be taken more seriously... I'd at least choose a school were people are paying $30,000-50,000/year to go to without the status of an Ivy League college.i don't care one way or the other if my argument is taken seriously. stats and facts are stats and facts. it is my contention that students are sold a bill of goods on college degrees and "success". your particular story, and i assume successful one, is irrelevant. i, too, graduated from uga and from north campus. so what? the "rules" that obtained when i graduated no longer are in effect.
I spent 7 years at UGA. Earned 3 degrees and had the Hope Scholarship for 3 years, a research assistantship for 1 year, an undergraduate teaching assistantship for 1 semester, and worked the whole time. I got some limited financial support from the family, but paid most of my own bills. I graduated each time debt free. While I understand not everyone can do that and not everyone is as lucky to find the opportunity and have the support that I had, it is really hard to convince me, that it wasn't worth the value. The in-state students coming out of UGA don't carry -that- much student loan debt, unless they really didn't really try, worked at all, or blew too much money through private expenses. I would say most my friends were able to easily pay it down within a few years of graduating with no problems.
I have yet to see any labor economics research that shows higher rates of return on a vocation degree from a technical school over a major university degree at large.the idea here is that some students might be better off financially going to a vo tech school rather than assuming they will do better financially from a 4 year college degree especially if they can exit school without huge amounts of college loan debt.
Don't get me wrong I support vocational programs... We don't need everyone to go to a major university. Most aren't prepared for it either, but that that doesn't mean their education can't be advanced in a meaningful, productive way. However, at the end of the day the numbers don't skew in favor of vocational degrees/certificates over a standard university diploma (even in the humanities).
I also wouldn't underestimate the amount of productivity white collar office jobs provide in our economy. That part of our economy employees alot of people into fairly well paying jobs.i guess it depends on how productivity is defined. i don't know.
I don't know, I am almost sure 7 years was enough.
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