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Old 12-19-2011, 01:43 PM
 
705 posts, read 942,074 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neil0311 View Post
I get that many agencies have used the SSN as a de facto ID number, but I don't believe there is a law compelling anyone to provide their SSN to state or local gov't agencies. The real question is what is the ramification if someone refuses to provide it? When you apply for credit, banks and credit reporting agencies use your SSN. You can refuse to provide it, but then the result is that you probably won't get credit extended to you.
They are required to provide the SSN when booked. When a person is arrested they are required to provide all pertinent identification information, name, DOB, address, SSN, etc. Failing to do so is considered obstruction. Ultimately they'd go before the judge on the original charges and the judge would instruct them to provide the info.
If they've been arrested prior then their info, SSN included, is on their NCIC/GCIC arrest profile and we can get it when we run them. I've had people get hesitant in the past but after being told they face an additional charge if they do not provide all the necessary ID info they have always complied
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Old 12-25-2011, 01:30 AM
 
Location: Acworth
1,352 posts, read 3,861,152 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MovedfromFL View Post
Sounds like it might have something to do with immigration enforcement. In other words, if you did not immediately rattle off a SS#, then you would expect to get some kind of hassle.

Personally, I would refuse to provide that information.
Incorrect

Only time they can ask you for it is if there is a problem with identifying you. Say another person with the same name/similar details.... a drivers license with a photo (duh) should take care of that but there is always the 1 in a million likeness there too.


I can guarantee you they wrote it so they citation looks more official.


No you dont have to give it to them. Or at least you can really cross them as to why they want it.
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Old 12-25-2011, 01:37 AM
 
Location: Acworth
1,352 posts, read 3,861,152 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axemanjoe View Post
They are required to provide the SSN when booked. When a person is arrested they are required to provide all pertinent identification information, name, DOB, address, SSN, etc. Failing to do so is considered obstruction. Ultimately they'd go before the judge on the original charges and the judge would instruct them to provide the info.
If they've been arrested prior then their info, SSN included, is on their NCIC/GCIC arrest profile and we can get it when we run them. I've had people get hesitant in the past but after being told they face an additional charge if they do not provide all the necessary ID info they have always complied

Eh? Arrest is not the same as a stop. A judicial order is also another matter.

Once arrested you are free to shut up and that's it. nobody can do ANYTHING about that. What they can do is charge you with knowingly providing FALSE information. Keeping quiet is not a crime.

If you provide no ID in any workable form you can be arrested/detained until it is determined who you are if there is cause for that (say suspect of crime). Obstruction will not hold and is as vain as "disorderly conduct"

this free civics lesson is something you should have been thought at any post certified academy. if not, dump in your badge tomorrow
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Old 01-09-2012, 08:07 AM
 
705 posts, read 942,074 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cityrover View Post
Eh? Arrest is not the same as a stop. A judicial order is also another matter.

Once arrested you are free to shut up and that's it. nobody can do ANYTHING about that. What they can do is charge you with knowingly providing FALSE information. Keeping quiet is not a crime.

If you provide no ID in any workable form you can be arrested/detained until it is determined who you are if there is cause for that (say suspect of crime). Obstruction will not hold and is as vain as "disorderly conduct"

this free civics lesson is something you should have been thought at any post certified academy. if not, dump in your badge tomorrow

Sounds like you need lesons in civics as well as criminal procedure, not to mention grammar and spelling. We are not "thought" anything in any academy.

I made a clear distinction between an arrest and a stop. Under current Georgia law a person stopped for a traffic violation is required to produce their driver's license upon demand, please see 40-5-29. A person detained regarding their being suspected of having committed a crime can surely remain silent, but once arrested they are required to provide their vital ID information.

I have charged persons refusing to provide their vital ID information in the booikng area with obstruction in the past. Each judge had no problems with it either. Disorderly conduct does not apply in this context.

I am also a Georgia POST Certified Instructor and would be happy to give you any lessons required to clarify your obvious misunderstandings of criminal procedure and criminal law. You do come across as a jailhouse lawyer type, what's your beef with the police.
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Old 01-10-2012, 04:50 AM
 
Location: Cartersville, GA
1,254 posts, read 2,971,863 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axemanjoe View Post
Sounds like you need lesons in civics as well as criminal procedure, not to mention grammar and spelling. We are not "thought" anything in any academy.

I made a clear distinction between an arrest and a stop. Under current Georgia law a person stopped for a traffic violation is required to produce their driver's license upon demand, please see 40-5-29. A person detained regarding their being suspected of having committed a crime can surely remain silent, but once arrested they are required to provide their vital ID information.

I have charged persons refusing to provide their vital ID information in the booikng area with obstruction in the past. Each judge had no problems with it either. Disorderly conduct does not apply in this context.

I am also a Georgia POST Certified Instructor and would be happy to give you any lessons required to clarify your obvious misunderstandings of criminal procedure and criminal law. You do come across as a jailhouse lawyer type, what's your beef with the police.
I can see why a person who is under arrest must present identification. From what I understand, GA law requires all persons over the age of 16 to have a government issued ID in their possession whenever they are in a public place. However, getting back to the topic of this thread, is a person under arrest required to present his or her SSN? If so, can they be changed with a crime if they cannot remember their SSN? I would think that the data on a driver's license would be enough to identify a person.
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Old 01-10-2012, 07:36 AM
 
705 posts, read 942,074 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToucheGA View Post
I can see why a person who is under arrest must present identification. From what I understand, GA law requires all persons over the age of 16 to have a government issued ID in their possession whenever they are in a public place. However, getting back to the topic of this thread, is a person under arrest required to present his or her SSN? If so, can they be changed with a crime if they cannot remember their SSN? I would think that the data on a driver's license would be enough to identify a person.
I'm not aware of any law requiring anyone to carry an ID. A State issued ID is available for those who do not have a driver's license. Many folks get one for ID purposes at banks, retail stores etc.

Again getting back to the OP, there is no field on the Georgia Uniform Traffic Summons and Complaint for a SSN. The only reason one would be asked for is to confirm a warrant if the officer got a hit on the person stopped. Again, if the person is arrested it would be requested at the booking office. If the person refuses there is a good chance that such person has a record already and the SSN would be on the NCIC/GCIC profile.

SO, relax Cityrover, you dont have to provide your SSN, you've already shown your ignorance, and I'll hold onto my badge as long as I like, I dont need you or anyone else to tell me when to turn it in, thank you.
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Old 01-12-2012, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Marietta, GA
7,846 posts, read 14,860,916 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axemanjoe View Post
They are required to provide the SSN when booked. When a person is arrested they are required to provide all pertinent identification information, name, DOB, address, SSN, etc. Failing to do so is considered obstruction. Ultimately they'd go before the judge on the original charges and the judge would instruct them to provide the info.
If they've been arrested prior then their info, SSN included, is on their NCIC/GCIC arrest profile and we can get it when we run them. I've had people get hesitant in the past but after being told they face an additional charge if they do not provide all the necessary ID info they have always complied
I'm not a jailhouse lawyer type or looking to show up "the man" like some may, but I am curious about the need for SSN, given that SSN is not something everyone is required to have or provide outside the context of tax purposes. SSN has become a defacto "national ID number" but that is not its intent. In fact, with ID theft a major concern, the less you provide your SSN, the better. Not that I speak to him frequently, but the next time I have a need to speak with my attorney, I will ask the legal basis and get a legal opinion.

So...in a case where someone has not worked a job, it's possible that they may not even have a SSN. Unlikely I'm sure, but possible. I find it odd and somewhat disturbing that a federal tax ID number would be required when someone is arrested, and even more disturbing that not knowing or providing such number could be a crime.
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Old 01-12-2012, 07:49 PM
 
705 posts, read 942,074 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neil0311 View Post
I'm not a jailhouse lawyer type or looking to show up "the man" like some may, but I am curious about the need for SSN, given that SSN is not something everyone is required to have or provide outside the context of tax purposes. SSN has become a defacto "national ID number" but that is not its intent. In fact, with ID theft a major concern, the less you provide your SSN, the better. Not that I speak to him frequently, but the next time I have a need to speak with my attorney, I will ask the legal basis and get a legal opinion.

So...in a case where someone has not worked a job, it's possible that they may not even have a SSN. Unlikely I'm sure, but possible. I find it odd and somewhat disturbing that a federal tax ID number would be required when someone is arrested, and even more disturbing that not knowing or providing such number could be a crime.
It's part of the personal identification criteria, it is also on the NCIC/GCIC profile like I stated before. If someone does not have a SSN then there would be no SSN to put on their profile. SSN's are also required to obtain credit. I can see your concern, however if it helps identify people properly then it's a help.
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Old 01-13-2012, 06:07 AM
 
Location: Marietta, GA
7,846 posts, read 14,860,916 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axemanjoe View Post
SSN's are also required to obtain credit.
Correct, but you have an option as to whether or not you apply for credit. That's different from you "must provide" it or face charges.
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Old 01-13-2012, 10:17 AM
 
705 posts, read 942,074 times
Reputation: 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by neil0311 View Post
Correct, but you have an option as to whether or not you apply for credit. That's different from you "must provide" it or face charges.
Without trying to beat this to death, again, like the OP asked, there is no field for it on a UTC, if a person is arrested it will be requested. I havent run accross an NCIC profile yet that did not have the arrestee's SSN.
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