Hey Georgia -- "got water"? (Atlanta, Columbus: transplants, live)

[janette moss]

Originally Posted by Caterpillar

Last night, an engineer friend of mine from out-of-state recommended a bizarre-sounding (to me) fix for our water woes. He suggested running a pipeline from Tennessee down the I-75 corridor. According to him, the technology is routine and thousands of miles of pipeline are installed all around the world. He likes to play devil's advocate... but I think he was serious... I can't imagine there being enough consensus - and - money to implement that plan unless only a trickle of muddy water was coming from our faucets... Besides, Tennessee is also drought-stricken. As for me, I'll continue to conserve, install rain barrels, acquire a reasonable reserve stash of bottled water, and have contingency plans in place.

What is this I hear about Georgia sharing water with Florida and Alabama, but the favor was not returned? Is this a rumor or the truth? Enlighten me someone that knows something about this.

[BobKovacs]

Originally Posted by janette moss

What is this I hear about Georgia sharing water with Florida and Alabama, but the favor was not returned? Is this a rumor or the truth? Enlighten me someone that knows something about this.

It's not a rumor- the Army Corps of Engineers releases approximatley 4,000 cubic feet of water per second downstream from Lake Lanier toward Alabama and Florida. That's just under 2,000,000 gallons per minute, and is what helps keep the river flowing beyond the lake. The water is used to run a few power plants, save some endangered mussels, and also for drinking water.

Florida and Alabama can't "return the favor" because the river only flows in one direction. People are upset about this for two reasons- the first being that we're sending so much water to preserve some mussels, yet no one can prove that they need that much water to survive, and the second being that Florida and Alabama aren't under any water use restrictions like GA is- they just keep using and using while we're supposed to conserve.

[harry chickpea]

BobKovacs, that is only part of the story. As an Alabama and ex-Florida resident, I feel duty-bound to state that:

1: The Chatahootchie does not flow INTO Alabama at any point except to form the border with Alabama. Nor does it come near any major Florida metropolitan center after it exits Lake Seminole as the Apalachicola.

2: Alabama has 32% of the watershed area of the river, all of it downstream from Atlanta.

3: There are a few small cities in Alabama that use water from the watershed, Dothan being the largest. All are miniscule compared to the Atlanta metro area, and the usage of the water in Alabama is generally equalized or more by the rainfall falling on its part of the watershed. In other words, if a wall was built down the middle of the border, and Alabama didn't use a drop from GA, it would still be fine.

4: The Atlanta population has increased from 1/2 million in 1950 to over 3 million in 1990 and is still growing. The relevant cities in Alabama have not increased in size at anywhere near this rate. Water use per person has climbed at an even higher rate.

5: There are power plants downstream that help feed Atlanta's increasing need for power. Cutting off flow would mean less power. Which do you want more of in summer - AC or watered lawns?

6: Keeping a regular flow of water helps not only endangered species, but game fish and the recreation industry, and such downstream crops as peanuts and cotton, which support the economy of that entire region. There is such a concept as riparian rights, which is one of the core issues here. Atlanta does not OWN the Chatahootchie.

7: Alabama has many parts of the state that are under water restrictions. I have no idea where you have found information to the contrary. Those restrictions even include cities in the Tennessee river valley watershed and the major city of Birmingham.

8: Florida is under water restrictions and has been, off and on for years. That is an entirely different issue anyway, and has more to do with growth in SE Florida, and mismanagement of the levels of Lake Okeechobee.

9: The simple fact is that there is a drought, and at the same time Atlanta is using more water than ever. Playing a "blame game" with other states is nonsensical.

The above said, the Corps release of water from Lake Lanier would be more true to nature if it was based as a percentage of waterfall upstream rather than a fixed figure. That would allow more natural drought and flush patterns, as well as minimize the impact of those activities during a drought. OTOH, some flood prone lands would be affected during peak rain years.

[JLA]

Although Atlanta gets the most press because of a water shortage, we down here in Columbus need the Chattahoochee River also. It's not just Alabama cities that are crying fowl, it's also Columbus. It looks as though Atlanta has learned nothing from cities like Phoenix, LA and Las Vegas. Years of uncontrolled growth is a recipe for disaster. They have known for many years that the reservoirs could not keep up with the rate of growth. Columbus has been the odd man out, having to take sides in a battle that need not be fought. Our future growth and the lively hood of many companies here is tied to the water flow of the Chattahoochee River. **** Poor Planning (PPP) is no excuse, they can't even plead ignorance. The open door policy of come one come all is now taking its toll on the Atlanta metro, East Alabama, West Central GA, Central GA and FL and the consequences are dire. And now Atlanta wants to get water from the Savannah River, the attitude seems to be be Augusta and Savannah be damned, we want water and we want it now.
When DOD decided it was going to add some 30,000 more people to the population of the Columbus area, leaders wanted to know how it was going to effect our infrastructure and natural resources. We have opened our arms to them, but the Fed Gov had to know that we were not going to sit back like a bunch lumps on the logs and let them bankrupt Columbus of its natural resources and that they also must share in the planning process by helping us to prepare our roads, build more schools and upgrade utilities as needed. The population here is growing rapidly already and trying to keep up with the growth, while Atlanta is ciphering the water flow is a challenge for all of us down stream of the great city of Atlanta, GA. We care for the small cities and towns south of us along the Chattahoochee River, our only request is that Atlanta do likewise.

[Icy Tea]

I remember watching a documentary on a Mulholland Dam in Los Angeles, where LA gets its drinking water. They bought up the water rights to whole farming communities and turned them into deserts. I think that cities should be limited in size in relation to their resources. Las Vegas is another example. If water became scarce I don't think you could justify taking it from those who have it and need it to give it to those who don't have it but need it more.
New York City is the same way, they get their water from the Catskills and Adirondacks and its piped in for miles and miles. But if it suddenly became scarce, and surrounding communities began to suffer for need of water, should they get preferential treatment? Tennessee does have water resources able to give to Atlanta but would it create hardships on anybody? And are we just letting cities grow beyond their ability to sustain themselves?

[pirate_lafitte]

This is why I like rain. Droughts go away and the make living easier and more relaxed. The solution I could think of is whenever GA has a water surplus, store that water away for a future drought. It is the only viable solution I can think of that isn't expensive, but it isn't timely.

[saturn50]

Originally Posted by janette moss

Does Georgia have hurricanes? I hope nothing that drastic has to happen to get rain. I would rather a "marathon rain dance" take place. Let's pray that Georgia will be able to sing "Rainey Night in Georgia" soon.

Hurricane Opal, September, 1995 or 1996. The pounding rain and howling wind did not stop for about 12 hours--some serious wind damage where I lived. It was a long and scary night, although it was worse in some areas than others if memory serve me right. Normally we just have heavy rains from hurricanes, and sometimes tornados. I noticed a post from several months in answer to whether or not Georgia still has tornados. Obviously, the person who answered is a transplant, because he/she said not to worry, because tornados don't happen around here anymore. He/she will be in for a rude awakening the first time they hear that freight train screaming over their head--it's a sound you never forget. The drought will end, and the storms will be back.

[ReturningWest]

Anybody remember the year it rained all July due to the reminants of a hurricane?

I feel fortunate that I have a really deep water well and I live in the Oconee river basin. I don't water a lawn or anything but I'm still trying to conserve my H20.

Maybe this will intice someone to buy my place as I'm not dependent on county water.

[Sportdeck]

Originally Posted by janette moss

Does Georgia have hurricanes? I hope nothing that drastic has to happen to get rain. I would rather a "marathon rain dance" take place. Let's pray that Georgia will be able to sing "Rainey Night in Georgia" soon.

The last big rain events from hurricanes were back in 2004 when Central FL (Kissimee-St Cloud) got hit with 3 named storms (Frances, Ivan and Jean come to mind) in less than 2 weeks. The remnant of those storms and several others had Lake Lanier at full pool in late summer and Lake Alatoona was so flooded that many of the surrounding parks were closed because they were under close to 10' of water. These are the same lakes that are now 14' - 15' below full pool.

Except for the potential coastal damage, a slow moving cat2, 500 mile diameter huricane sitting over North GA and the Carolinas would be a GREAT thing!

[Sportdeck]

Originally Posted by JLA

Although Atlanta gets the most press because of a water shortage, we down here in Columbus need the Chattahoochee River also. It's not just Alabama cities that are crying fowl, it's also Columbus. It looks as though Atlanta has learned nothing from cities like Phoenix, LA and Las Vegas. Years of uncontrolled growth is a recipe for disaster. They have known for many years that the reservoirs could not keep up with the rate of growth. Columbus has been the odd man out, having to take sides in a battle that need not be fought. Our future growth and the lively hood of many companies here is tied to the water flow of the Chattahoochee River. **** Poor Planning (PPP) is no excuse, they can't even plead ignorance. The open door policy of come one come all is now taking its toll on the Atlanta metro, East Alabama, West Central GA, Central GA and FL and the consequences are dire. And now Atlanta wants to get water from the Savannah River, the attitude seems to be be Augusta and Savannah be damned, we want water and we want it now.
When DOD decided it was going to add some 30,000 more people to the population of the Columbus area, leaders wanted to know how it was going to effect our infrastructure and natural resources. We have opened our arms to them, but the Fed Gov had to know that we were not going to sit back like a bunch lumps on the logs and let them bankrupt Columbus of its natural resources and that they also must share in the planning process by helping us to prepare our roads, build more schools and upgrade utilities as needed. The population here is growing rapidly already and trying to keep up with the growth, while Atlanta is ciphering the water flow is a challenge for all of us down stream of the great city of Atlanta, GA. We care for the small cities and towns south of us along the Chattahoochee River, our only request is that Atlanta do likewise.

JLA:

While many of your points are true, I was on the Columbus River Walk back in March of this year, while Metro ATL already had watering restrictions, and I was amazed at the width and apparent depth of the Chattahoochee as it went crashing over the falls in downtown Columbus. That is no traquile little river anymore as it is where it enters Lake Lanier. If the previous generation had not had enough foresight to build the 6 or 7 dams/resevoirs along the Chattahoochee, you would always get the natural flow that occurs due to local rainfall in the very small/narrowriver basin. That being said, whether you believe in creation or evolution, the muscles have survived for 1,000s or 1,000,000s of years, and there was probably a drought or 2 some time during that period in which the river flow was below average as it should be now based on recent rainfall.

Flow out of Buford Dam (and all the resvoirs) should be based on a weighted moving average (most recent months have a bigger effect than a year ago) of the previous 12-24 months of rainfall in the watershed above and below the resevoir. This would have the effect of smoothing the flow. ie if it's raining in Columbus the flow should be decreased, and if it hasn't rained in North GA in the past 6 months, the flow should be decreased.

If the resevoirs go dry becuase we're letting out a fixed amount of water, regardless of the upstream and downstream rainfall, no one wins.