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More simply put... besides the initial sticker value shock.
This law isn't bad for people moving here permanently and can keep their care for awhile. That is just up front sticker shock. They won't pay ad valorem taxes in the state.
The law is bad for those who move around. The people I think get beat up the most are early career professionals that might bounce around a bit as they move up the ladder via new job offers as is the new common trend.
For them a single up front fee is worse than a yearly fee.
It is also bad for people who move here that plan of getting a new car within the first year or two. It is almost best to sell your car as you move and buy new in-state for those people.
Either way I don't see how it is unconstitutional exactly. There is a difference between disliked and unconstitutional.
More simply put... besides the initial sticker value shock.
This law isn't bad for people moving here permanently and can keep their care for awhile. That is just up front sticker shock. They won't pay ad valorem taxes in the state.
The law is bad for those who move around. The people I think get beat up the most are early career professionals that might bounce around a bit as they move up the ladder via new job offers as is the new common trend.
For them a single up front fee is worse than a yearly fee.
It is also bad for people who move here that plan of getting a new car within the first year or two. It is almost best to sell your car as you move and buy new in-state for those people.
Either way I don't see how it is unconstitutional exactly. There is a difference between disliked and unconstitutional.
This is going to take a couple of years to go through the courts.
Like I said. Florida tried something similar to new residents as well years ago and it was ruled unconstitutional.
Some of it has to do with reciprocal agreements between states. Other states won't look kindly at what Georgia is doing. Georgia can always claim sovereign immunity defense.
Yes I am aware previous Georgia laws was annual birthday taxes. But I also believe these birthday taxes were tax deductible. Along with no initial full sales taxes due. If you buy a $50k car. Essentially you pay a small sales taxes under the old system? Along with the $300-400/year (tax deductible). Vs paying the full $3500 sales taxes up front.
This is going to take a couple of years to go through the courts.
Like I said. Florida tried something similar to new residents as well years ago and it was ruled unconstitutional.
Some of it has to do with reciprocal agreements between states. Other states won't look kindly at what Georgia is doing. Georgia can always claim sovereign immunity defense.
Yes I am aware previous Georgia laws was annual birthday taxes. But I also believe these birthday taxes were tax deductible. Along with no initial full sales taxes due. If you buy a $50k car. Essentially you pay a small sales taxes under the old system? Along with the $300-400/year (tax deductible). Vs paying the full $3500 sales taxes up front.
No you paid a full sales tax on a new car.
It is a new purchased good.
The new system replaced both taxes.
You haven't exactly explained what this court argument is with Florida either.
Laws are often not unconstitutional themselves. It is often a single thing about them and could be for a wide variety of reasons often not dealing with the overall intent of a law. Many in the public don't see this, because they just want a headliner that a law they love or hate is constitutionally valid -or- invalid.
To further muddy the situation... was it the state supreme court or the US supreme court. There is quite a difference there.
I'm not really sure what 'reciprocal agreements' between the states have to do with anything. The law has no such thing...and usually doesn't. You're in Georgia you follow Georgia law. If you're in Florida you follow Florida law. It is that simple.
Georgia doesn't need a sovereign immunity defense. I'm not even sure what that is. Some of this sounds made up to be honest.
To be honest, you really need to do some research and find out what the court case you're referring to was actually about, before you can adaquetly compare it to Georgia. If you don't I fear you might be trying to look at too many tangential arguments for why something could be unconstitutional.
Could you point us in the direction of this big case that is going to make Georgia's law unconstitutional and get into the nitty-gritty of why?
[quote=cwkimbro;33666372]No you paid a full sales tax on a new car.
It is a new purchased good.
The new system replaced both taxes.
You haven't exactly explained what this court argument is with Florida either.
Laws are often not unconstitutional themselves. It is often a single thing about them and could be for a wide variety of reasons often not dealing with the overall intent of a law. Many in the public don't see this, because they just want a headliner that a law they love or hate is constitutionally valid -or- invalid.
To further muddy the situation... was it the state supreme court or the US supreme court. There is quite a difference there.
I'm not really sure what 'reciprocal agreements' between the states have to do with anything. The law has no such thing...and usually doesn't. You're in Georgia you follow Georgia law. If you're in Florida you follow Florida law. It is that simple.
Georgia doesn't need a sovereign immunity defense. I'm not even sure what that is. Some of this sounds made up to be honest.
To be honest, you really need to do some research and find out what the court case you're referring to was actually about, before you can adaquetly compare it to Georgia. If you don't I fear you might be trying to look at too many tangential arguments for why something could be unconstitutional.
Could you point us in the direction of this big case that is going to make Georgia's law unconstitutional and get into the nitty-gritty of why?[/quote]
It was called an "impact fee" for new residents registering cars in Florida back in the early 2000s.
The point I am making (and there are quite a few complaints) is the legality of this new Georgia law. It's an obviously extortion of money from new residents registering their cars.
Say if you paid the ad valorem taxes in Georgia and re titled the car in Maryland. Maryland would "credit" you the portion of the ad valorem taxes (or similar sales taxes...it's right on their website) of the current 6% fee for new residents.
If a Georgia resident moved to another state, they wouldn't get unfairly penalized to re title their cars.
And where the Georgia law will fail is they gave current residents the option to go to the new system (but also added a clause to apply previous payments of sales taxes paid) and credited to the one time ad valorem taxes and be done with it. The lawmakers tried to be too cute with this law to protect current GA residents and screw new residents coming in from another state.
The point I am making (and there are quite a few complaints) is the legality of this new Georgia law. It's an obviously extortion of money from new residents registering their cars.
Extortion?
No you need to scroll up and re-read the replies me and other posters already offered.
We got rid of our annual ad valorem taxes for this system. The only thing is an up front sticker shock, but you pay once and your done.
As long as the newcomers stay here for awhile they end up equal or better off in the long-run. The real problem is for people who bounce around a good bit.
From what I'm reading in this article you posted these two laws are very different.
In Florida the law was an impact fee targeting newcomers who still had to pay other taxes along with everyone else.
In Georgia it is a law that applies to everyone and replaces other taxes. And not that is matters.... It also isn't a fixed fee and is tied to the value of the car, like our old ad valorem taxes. If the car is cheaper the tax is cheaper. The older the car, the cheaper the tax.
Lastly, you seem to be confused about this law. The lawmakers were not too cute with the law. I actually bought a new car during the time period where I could opt-in to the tax, which I did.
The tax is simply replacing the old system: Sales tax + an on-going yearly tax with a new tax: and up front fee paid at registration of all cars. The clause in the law you are referring to was simply created as a way to let me choose which path to take, given that I bought a car after the law was passed...but before the full implementation of the law.
It put me at an equal playing level with people who bought cars after implementation of the law and with those moving into the state. I'm also not paying $300/year on an ad valorem tax on a new car in comparison to the new tax, which is a large up front, single time tax.
There are reasons for people to dislike the new law and you are touching on one of them a little bit, but your ignoring key points:
-The law is constitutional
-The law is not the Florida law you just cited
-The law applies to every resident of Georgia registering a car, new and old.
-The law replaces an annually paid tax for both new and old residents.
-The law is not necessarily bad for new residents, if they stay here for awhile with their cars. The complaint really rests for people who move here and immediately buy new cars after moving. In this case they are probably older cars and the tax would have been low. The real complaint is for early career individuals who are frequently moving between different states in search of job opportunities. The savings on this law is based on not paying a yearly tax, so if you move in and turn around and move right back out... you're probably worse off.
However, none of that is unconstitutional. None of that is the Florida law and none of that needs a make believe legal defense 'sovereign immunity defense.'
A bit of advice:
If you don't like something... just say so. Don't risk mixing up things you don't understand. Don't try to sound more educated than you are by making stuff up.
Just stick to the basic opinion.
You don't like the law, because you feel it is unfair to for people to pay a large up front tax moving in. Period.
You were wrong about too many other things that really muddied the water. You're killing your real argument trying to over dramatize things with calling things you don't like unconstitutional, simply because you don't like it.
You're also making it hard for me and others to come up and focus on several points.... this law is not necessarily bad for many new residents moving in. You have to consider other factors, to whether a person pays more or less compared to the previous system.
No you need to scroll up and re-read the replies me and other posters already offered.
We got rid of our annual ad valorem taxes for this system. The only thing is an up front sticker shock, but you pay once and your done.
As long as the newcomers stay here for awhile they end up equal or better off in the long-run. The real problem is for people who bounce around a good bit.
From what I'm reading in this article you posted these two laws are very different.
In Florida the law was an impact fee targeting newcomers who still had to pay other taxes along with everyone else.
In Georgia it is a law that applies to everyone and replaces other taxes. And not that is matters.... It also isn't a fixed fee and is tied to the value of the car, like our old ad valorem taxes. If the car is cheaper the tax is cheaper. The older the car, the cheaper the tax.
Lastly, you seem to be confused about this law. The lawmakers were not too cute with the law. I actually bought a new car during the time period where I could opt-in to the tax, which I did.
The tax is simply replacing the old system: Sales tax + an on-going yearly tax with a new tax: and up front fee paid at registration of all cars. The clause in the law you are referring to was simply created as a way to let me choose which path to take, given that I bought a car after the law was passed...but before the full implementation of the law.
It put me at an equal playing level with people who bought cars after implementation of the law and with those moving into the state. I'm also not paying $300/year on an ad valorem tax on a new car in comparison to the new tax, which is a large up front, single time tax.
There are reasons for people to dislike the new law and you are touching on one of them a little bit, but your ignoring key points:
-The law is constitutional
-The law is not the Florida law you just cited
-The law applies to every resident of Georgia registering a car, new and old.
-The law replaces an annually paid tax for both new and old residents.
-The law is not necessarily bad for new residents, if they stay here for awhile with their cars. The complaint really rests for people who move here and immediately buy new cars after moving. In this case they are probably older cars and the tax would have been low. The real complaint is for early career individuals who are frequently moving between different states in search of job opportunities. The savings on this law is based on not paying a yearly tax, so if you move in and turn around and move right back out... you're probably worse off.
However, none of that is unconstitutional. None of that is the Florida law and none of that needs a make believe legal defense 'sovereign immunity defense.'
A bit of advice:
If you don't like something... just say so. Don't risk mixing up things you don't understand. Don't try to sound more educated than you are by making stuff up.
Just stick to the basic opinion.
You don't like the law, because you feel it is unfair to for people to pay a large up front tax moving in. Period.
You were wrong about too many other things that really muddied the water. You're killing your real argument trying to over dramatize things with calling things you don't like unconstitutional, simply because you don't like it.
You're also making it hard for me and others to come up and focus on several points.... this law is not necessarily bad for many new residents moving in. You have to consider other factors, to whether a person pays more or less compared to the previous system.
So you are saying if someone under the old system purchased a $80K car, that Georgia charged a sales tax on the full $80K (6-8%)= $5000 give or tax PLUS pays a $300/400 birthday tax each year? Somehow I highly doubt the sales tax was the same 6-8% full value under the old system.
EDIT: Did research, the old tax system was only 4% sales taxes plus the birthday tax ($300-400). Now the new system goes all the way up to 9% (currently 6.75% tax).
The kicker is the birthday tax is tax deductible since it's a recurring annual tax.
And under the old system, someone bringing in a newer car into Georgia didn't have to even pay the 4% sales taxes, just the annual birthday tax.
Again, the law is designed as un-leveled playing field to new residents because they have no say in the law.
Poorly planned and unintended consequences not thoroughly thought through....Absolutely.
I just moved to the state less than 3 months ago.
The Georgia Auto Dealers association sponsored the law. This law smells very bad for new residents. It was not unintended consequences. They clearly knew what they were doing.
Like I said this law will be challenged. I just got through collecting $25K plus interest in illegal FICA taxes the IRS withheld and this process took well over 15 years. This law will take time to be challenged.
So you are saying if someone under the old system purchased a $80K car, that Georgia charged a sales tax on the full $80K (6-8%)= $5000 give or tax PLUS pays a $300/400 birthday tax each year? Somehow I highly doubt the sales tax was the same 6-8% full value under the old system.
EDIT: Did research, the old tax system was only 4% sales taxes plus the birthday tax ($300-400). Now the new system goes all the way up to 9% (currently 6.75% tax).
The kicker is the birthday tax is tax deductible since it's a recurring annual tax.
And under the old system, someone bringing in a newer car into Georgia didn't have to even pay the 4% sales taxes, just the annual birthday tax.
Again, the law is designed as un-leveled playing field to new residents because they have no say in the law.
The state sales tax is 4% and has been for a long time.... add in the county portion slick!
In most counties in Georgia it is 7 or 8%. In a few it is 6%.
Nice research...
but go ahead... highly doubt real information provided by those of us who have been around and actually bought a new car under the old and new system. What would we know....
Or you could actually try listening to those of us who have been around for awhile, rather than just whine and moan and get half your information wrong.
And again none of that makes anything unconstitutional. It just changes the type of taxation.
It still sucks for those who buy a car in one state, pay the sales tax there, then move to GA 2~3 years later and have to pay Another 6~7% on a vehicle they may only keep for 1~2 more years. Nationally, people only keep cars for 4 3/4 years (as an average, factoring in weirdos like my wife and I who are at 10 and 12 years).
Sucks for me if I want to go back into flipping motorcycles AND do everything by the book since 99% of the stuff I bought would be "valued" for far more than it was actually worth, much less what I paid. Just throwing money away, so I stopped doing it and had to stop paying a couple guys to help. *shrug*
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