2013 county, metro area estimates released

[Newsboy]

Originally Posted by Drewplanner

The commuting relationship between Beaufort and Chatham Counties is less than 5%. Jasper has a 12% relationship with Chatham but a 55% relationship with Beaufort. I don't see HHI being added to Savannah MSA or CSA anytime soon unless some drastic employment/industry shifts occur.

http://lmi.dew.sc.gov/lmi%20site/CommunityProfiles.html

That's why I said IF and when. But even so, Jasper County's 12 percent commuting threshold is very close to the 15 percent needed to have it added to the Savannah CSA. And because Jasper is already a significant piece of the HHI MSA, it stands to reason that the OMB will soon consider Savannah-HHI one CSA for statistical purposes. Beaufort County joining Savannah's MSA seems unlikely at this time, but it's not out of the realm of possibilty.

The relationship between Jasper and Bulloch counties to Savannah is very similar to that of the outlying counties in Metro Atlanta. For example, nobody thinks of Meriwhether County being part of Metro Atlanta. But it is included in the Atlanta MSA because of commuting patterns between Meriwether and Coweta and Fayete counties, which are solidly part of the MSA. It's a strange interpretation of what makes an MSA or CSA, and I think it's flawed in many respects. But basically, our traditional definition of "metro area" no longer applies anymore. It certainly doesn't apply to the relationship between Savannah and Hilton Head, which are very interconnected despite being separate MSAs.

[therealpattman]

Originally Posted by Columbus1984

But geographically, isn't the Augusta MSA the same size as the Columbus CSA. If so, I highly doubt it would ever get a CSA.

No the Augusta MSA is larger in size and this is why.

Aiken county is one of the largest counties in South Carolina as is Burke County is the second largest in Georgia. Both counties are 1,911sq mi combined. Now compare that to the entire three county Savannah MSA which is only 1,362 sq mi, which makes the argument for classification via MSA difficult to analyze, because you can not include part of a county no matter the size.

[PJA]

Originally Posted by Columbus1984

But geographically, isn't the Augusta MSA the same size as the Columbus CSA. If so, I highly doubt it would ever get a CSA.

It already touches Columbia's MSA so it's definitely possible. The sprawl that would have to occur...

[Drewplanner]

I agree that the traditional MSA/CSA definitions do not apply to defining regions outside of labor patterns. People might work in their home county but go shopping in another. Statistical areas do not account for shopping/spending patterns which are surely significant economic activities. I also think using counties as building block units for metro regions is a bit obsolete (going back to the comments about Aiken and Burke Counties). I wonder if the Census will ever move to using Census Tracts as the new unit.

[Rising-Star]

Originally Posted by Newsboy

Nice try, but ...

Savananh's 2013 estimated MSA population is 366,047. Savannah's estimated 2013 CSA population is 519,500. HHI's 2013 estimated MSA population is 198,467.

Savannah CSA + HHI MSA = 717,967
Savannah MSA + HHI MSA = 564,514

Fact remains, there are more people already living in the Savannah-HHI region than there are in either Augusta-Aiken or Columbus-Opelika. And that's not likely to change anytime soon, if ever, since all are growing at an even pace.

You didn't say anything about Savannah's CSA in your comment. You specifically said if the Savannah and Hilton Head MSAs combine, it would have a larger population than both the Columbus and Augusta metros...and you statement was inaccurate.

[Drewplanner]

The Savannah-Hinesville-Statesboro CSA is 518,020

[nature's message]

Some of the posts in this reflect the provincial umbrella that repels businesses from investing in cities outside of Atlanta.

Macon has not made any substantial investments in public works, nor have leadership even attempted to create an attractive climate for public-private partnerships to spur economic development. The same can be said for Columbus, Augusta, and the rest the state's competing smaller cities, bar Savannah perhaps. The city of Atlanta, on the other hand, has pumped billions of dollars not only on infrastructure improvements like expanding Hartsfield into one of the world's busiest airports, but into higher education to attract young hopefuls into the robust business landscape. Georgia politicians KNOW that Atlanta is the state's most prized asset and contributes to the majority of Georgia's economic output, and so it'd be foolish to not capitalize on its existing backbone. Why then, would any company want to invest in any other Georgia city when Atlanta provides adequate capital and infrastructure and a proactive business economy that is worthy of a hefty investment?

Originally Posted by Newsboy

I think eventually, Macon is going to benefit enormously for being so close to ATL. Do people realize that it's only 45 minutes from Macon to McDonough / Henry Couny? It's a little over an hour from Macon to ATL airport. The North Macon suburbs (especially Forsyth) are within easy commuting distance of South Metro ATL job centers.

I'm not sure how haphazard urban planning encourages sustainable economic development. It doesn't. Even as the city of Atlanta and the inner suburban core enjoys a re-burgeoning economy, the fringes of the metro continue to suffer as businesses relocate closer to take advantage of developed infrastructure.

Plus, see above. Macon's local leadership must make the initiative to attractive jobs and businesses, not hope to absorb a minuscule portion of Atlanta's growth.

[Born 2 Roll]

Originally Posted by nature's message

Some of the posts in this reflect the provincial umbrella that repels businesses from investing in cities outside of Atlanta.

Macon has not made any substantial investments in public works, nor have leadership even attempted to create an attractive climate for public-private partnerships to spur economic development. The same can be said for Columbus, Augusta, and the rest the state's competing smaller cities, bar Savannah perhaps. The city of Atlanta, on the other hand, has pumped billions of dollars not only on infrastructure improvements like expanding Hartsfield into one of the world's busiest airports, but into higher education to attract young hopefuls into the robust business landscape. Georgia politicians KNOW that Atlanta is the state's most prized asset and contributes to the majority of Georgia's economic output, and so it'd be foolish to not capitalize on its existing backbone. Why then, would any company want to invest in any other Georgia city when Atlanta provides adequate capital and infrastructure and a proactive business economy that is worthy of a hefty investment?

These are some excellent points.

Though, it should be noted that there have been some substantial business investments in Columbus and Augusta and, of course, Savannah over the past few decades of explosive economic and population growth in Metro Atlanta.

Also, as I mentioned earlier, it should also be noted that the relative lack of investment in outlying rural areas and smaller cities in larger states with one or more dominating mega-sized large major metro regions is not unique to Georgia.

New York (NYC), Illinois (Chicago), Pennsylvania (Philadelphia, Pittsburgh) and California (LA/Southern California, SF/Bay Area) are all large states with one or two very-large major metro regions where economic investment, economic growth and population growth are a very-severe problem outside of their one or two very-large and dominating major metro regions.

The reason why areas (rural areas and smaller cities) outside of very-large major metro regions often struggle so mightily economically is not necessarily because of a provincial attitude, but often because those sparsely-populated outlying areas just simply don't possess the cultural, logistical and educational (and existing economic) assets that the heavily-populated large major metro regions inside of those states possess.

The relative lack of economic growth in more sparsely-populated outlying areas should be no knock on those areas as dramatically-lower economic growth rates in sparsely-populated outlying areas are very-common in every large state with very-large major metro regions.

Originally Posted by Newsboy

I think eventually, Macon is going to benefit enormously for being so close to ATL. Do people realize that it's only 45 minutes from Macon to McDonough / Henry Couny? It's a little over an hour from Macon to ATL airport. The North Macon suburbs (especially Forsyth) are within easy commuting distance of South Metro ATL job centers.

Originally Posted by nature's message

I'm not sure how haphazard urban planning encourages sustainable economic development. It doesn't. Even as the city of Atlanta and the inner suburban core enjoys a re-burgeoning economy, the fringes of the metro continue to suffer as businesses relocate closer to take advantage of developed infrastructure.

I don't think that Newsboy was trying to make a statement that Macon would benefit from the sprawling development patterns of Atlanta's outer suburbs.

I think that Newsboy was just saying that Macon is in a very-good geographical position to benefit from Atlanta's continued growth because of its relatively close distance to the job and activity centers of Metro Atlanta as a whole.

Also, not all businesses can be located in densely-developed areas at or close to the urban core. Many industrial businesses (like the light manufacturing, distribution and warehousing businesses along the I-75 South corridor in the rising industrial job center that is Henry County) need to be in less densely-developed areas so that they have space to build-out expansive industrial facilities and have easy access to and from an Interstate superhighway for shipping and logistical purposes.

Originally Posted by nature's message

Plus, see above. Macon's local leadership must make the initiative to attractive jobs and businesses, not hope to absorb a minuscule portion of Atlanta's growth.

This is a good point. The thing that has most been holding Macon back from experiencing greater economic success is Macon's political leadership. Though, Newsboy and others make an excellent point that Macon can benefit greatly from its relatively close geographical location to the immense economic assets of Metro Atlanta if the city has the right political leadership to do so.

Originally Posted by Newsboy

I think it's safe to say the Macon and Atlanta CSAs will eventually be joined.

This is a good prediction. One thing that will likely aid in the process of the Macon and Atlanta CSA's becoming joined will be the eventual establishment of high-speed passenger rail service (commuter rail and/or interurban rail service) between Atlanta and Macon as the State of Georgia has preliminary plans on the books to implement commuter rail service between Atlanta and Macon.

[Columbuskidd92]

The airport changed the way how Atlanta built infrastructure. That doesn't mean Columbus has to change its identity because we built something like Aflac.