How can Georgia's second tier cities grow to rival their counterparts in the Carolinas? (Atlanta: public school, airport)

[JoeTarheel]

I think the main factor here is that SC doesn't have a Chicago/Atlanta/Indianapolis type city that completely overshadows the 2nd tier cities. I know it's been said before in this thread, but it seems like the most obvious reason for the differences in growth and success of each state's cities. I would be willing to bet that if Columbia had grown into a glaringly dominant city (or Charleston or Greenville) it would negatively affect the economies and populations of the other SC cities. NC is somewhat similar to SC...although Charlotte is the largest city, the Triangle and Triad are large and successful enough to compete with Charlotte. To put it bluntly, the GA cities honestly just have to fight for Atlanta's scraps, and that has held them back by comparison.

[JoeTarheel]

Originally Posted by redcliffe

Only because Simpsonville and Mauldin aren't included, which are clearly contiguous with the Greenville urban area. That's over 100k in those 2 alone and the gap is spreading.

Those areas have grown like wildfire in the past couple of decades. My alternator died once driving through Greenville and I took an Easley exit where there was absolutely nothing - not even a stoplight. It's amazing to see it today compared to that dark night stranded in the nothingness.

[DSMRE]

Originally Posted by JoeTarheel

Those areas have grown like wildfire in the past couple of decades. My alternator died once driving through Greenville and I took an Easley exit where there was absolutely nothing - not even a stoplight. It's amazing to see it today compared to that dark night stranded in the nothingness.

That area has filled in during that time with Powdersville. It's sprawling.

[JoeTarheel]

Originally Posted by redcliffe

Everything here I agree with.

Excellent. I actually love Greenville and love what has happened there over the past 20 years or so. It's a beautiful city with a lot going for it economically. Not as famous as Columbia (state capital) or Charleston (world renowned) or even Myrtle Beach, but probably the economic engine of SC.

[GRS86]

Originally Posted by oobanks

I think the Macon-Warner Robins Metro has a Great Chance at growth, much on the Greenville,SC, or Columbia scale, especially with its highway Infrastructure and location in the Center of the State. The Bones are Totally there, it just has to Grow the Meat. I must say It's location and Closeness to Atlanta is Helping and Hurting the City at the Same time. Prime example "Airport"... It will never need one do to the FACT, its less than 100 Miles from ATL. Almost a large Suburb with a Population of over 155,000 and CSA over 417,000 just South of Atlanta Metro basicly.

I have always thought that outside of Savannah, Macon had the most upside potential of GA's secondary cities because of location, core layout, and transportation infrastructure. Over the last 30 years, it's like Macon has done the least with what it has going for it of the four secondary cities.

In order for Macon to reach its fullest potential, the following have to take place:

1. Progressive Leadership- The Macon-Bibb County merger was a huge step in the right direction that's already paying dividends in the way of increased development downtown, and in increased industrial development. Hopefully, the divisive leadership that nearly crippled Macon continues to be a thing of the past.

2. Deal with a failing public school system - Macon - Bibb County schools is the worst school district of the GA secondary cities, with many of the same issues plaguing many larger urban districts. They have a new superintendent. There isn't anywhere to go but to improve and go up. This will only help the growth of the city going forward.

3. Have a less provincial mindset - If Macon and for that matter, Middle GA is ever going to grow and prosper, it's going to have to be less provincial, and more accepting of outsiders, and a outsider's POV. It's going to take more than just Macon and Middle GA lifers for the area to reach its fullest potential.

[Jandrew5]

S

[Jandrew5]

Originally Posted by JoeTarheel

I think the main factor here is that SC doesn't have a Chicago/Atlanta/Indianapolis type city that completely overshadows the 2nd tier cities. I know it's been said before in this thread, but it seems like the most obvious reason for the differences in growth and success of each state's cities. I would be willing to bet that if Columbia had grown into a glaringly dominant city (or Charleston or Greenville) it would negatively affect the economies and populations of the other SC cities. NC is somewhat similar to SC...although Charlotte is the largest city, the Triangle and Triad are large and successful enough to compete with Charlotte. To put it bluntly, the GA cities honestly just have to fight for Atlanta's scraps, and that has held them back by comparison.

I dont think thats true, mainly because of North Carolina. Charlotte is huge, but it hasnt overshadowed the Triangle amd the Triad. Plus Wilmington, Fayetteville, and Asheville are decent size.

NC's big 3 is like SC's big 3, but on a larger scale. All three are between 2.3-1.5 mil people. And in SC, the big 3 are all between 860-740K people. Just because the 3 cities are around the same size doesnt mean the wealth us being spread evenly either.

To be honest, I think Augusta, Savannah, Columbus, and Macon are all smaller...just because they are. Yes without Atlanta they may be bigger, but then again they may not. Im sure Reno would be about the same size without or without Vegas, and I cant see Jackson affecting anything else in MS.

If GA's 2nd cities think theyre being slighted thanks to Atlanta, it needs to be taken up with Atlanta. What is Columbia, Charleston, and Greenville going to do? We're not taking from you, your government is and is giving scraps, so you say.

My point is GA and SC dont need to be in competiton. The cities are the size they are because thats how they are. Now you need to make use of that size and keep it into positive growth. Boom, your city is success.

[JoeTarheel]

Originally Posted by Jandrew5

I dont think thats true, mainly because of North Carolina. Charlotte is huge, but it hasnt overshadowed the Triangle amd the Triad. Plus Wilmington, Fayetteville, and Asheville are decent size.

NC's big 3 is like SC's big 3, but on a larger scale. All three are between 2.3-1.5 mil people. And in SC, the big 3 are all between 860-740K people. Just because the 3 cities are around the same size doesnt mean the wealth us being spread evenly either.

To be honest, I think Augusta, Savannah, Columbus, and Macon are all smaller...just because they are. Yes without Atlanta they may be bigger, but then again they may not. Im sure Reno would be about the same size without or without Vegas, and I cant see Jackson affecting anything else in MS.

If GA's 2nd cities think theyre being slighted thanks to Atlanta, it needs to be taken up with Atlanta. What is Columbia, Charleston, and Greenville going to do? We're not taking from you, your government is and is giving scraps, so you say.

My point is GA and SC dont need to be in competiton. The cities are the size they are because thats how they are. Now you need to make use of that size and keep it into positive growth. Boom, your city is success.

That's exactly what I said..."NC is somewhat similar to SC...although Charlotte is the largest city, the Triangle and Triad are large and successful enough to compete with Charlotte."

I didn't mean they are being slighted by Atlanta's existence, but just the sheer size of Atlanta dominates the state. If Atlanta had grown similar to the other GA cities then there would be a lot more parity in the state - more similar to SC and NC. We would see a vastly different city landscape with a more consistent population divided between the major cities. Instead we have a mammoth city that garners almost all of the population and economic growth and most of the attention. To many people, Atlanta IS Georgia...I've heard people say more than once that there is nothing else worthwhile in GA outside of Atlanta - total ignorance but that is how lots of people see it.

I don't know that GA and SC are in competition other than for corporate relocations/movies/etc., but the author of this thread just posed a comparison of the cities and wondered why they weren't more similar. I think the obvious answer is Atlanta. It would be remiss to ignore the effect such a huge city has on the smaller cities located in the same state.

[Jandrew5]

Fair point.

[Mutiny77]

Originally Posted by JoeTarheel

Excellent. I actually love Greenville and love what has happened there over the past 20 years or so. It's a beautiful city with a lot going for it economically. Not as famous as Columbia (state capital) or Charleston (world renowned) or even Myrtle Beach, but probably the economic engine of SC.

There's really not one economic engine of the state really, since the three largest have similar GDPs (although the Upstate would be the largest if you combined Spartanburg with Greenville-Anderson). But in terms of performance, if I had to name one city, it would be Charleston; it has been firing on all cylinders for a couple of years now and typically ranks relatively high on economic lists, usually being the first among SC's metros. Being home to the state's primary seaport also helps.