Which secondary city in Georgia will mirror Greenvilles success? (Atlanta: real estate, travel)

[yerocal]

One of the things i think is hindering the 2nd tier cities is that the leaders need to lose the small town mentality..... Such as holding on the old run down structure which needs to be demolished and replaced with modern structures, downtown height restrictions and red tape developers has to go though for development approval because it does not fall in line the the historic similarities and etc. There are way to hold on to your history with hindering growth, just like philly, PA or other cities has done. Most of the other cities in the southern states about the size or larger than Macon,Columbus,Augusta and Savannah has high rises and lots of other modern developments which has helped to lure positive growth into there city. Ga 2nd tier cities are really behind if you ask me and really need to lose the numerous restrictions and stop letting the historical background hinder their growth. Thats why everything is going to Atlanta because Atlanta does not restrict on a lot of developments and make the permitting process easier for approvals for new out of box developments. i heard a lot of comments made by some cities leader say that high rise develop with destroy the historic infrastructure of the city,these historic dumps are not bring in high tax revenue or growth.......it actually driving these city into bankruptcy and no funds put into back to the city like lower taxes and etc.

[PJA]

Originally Posted by DisgustaSucks

with the exception of Columbus... Georgia's second tier cities have third rate local leadership.. including Savannah. Local politics in Augusta, Mac on, and even Savannah are marked by strong racial division and animosity. these cities must overcome this obstacle if they intend to be more than just a second tier southern city. It should be noted that the Greenville-Spartanburg metropolitcan area has over 1,000,000 people.. it would be a long time before one of these Georgia cities caught up with that.

I can't speak for Savannah or Macon but The Augusta Commision is not a divisive group. If you made this comment last year then you would be right, but there hasn't been any drama going on in the Augusta Commission since a couple of people have left.

I think all of the cities have the potential to do better and I think you will see this in the near future.

[LovinDecatur]

I don't really have anything to add except I think that you guys are doing a great job of dissecting this issue, especially Disgusta, whose pithy opinions I always enjoy...he earns a rep point from me!

[bryant501]

This is coming from someone from the outside looking in. I live in Atlanta but due to by job travel all across the southeast on a regular basis and Savannah, Augusta, Macon and Columbus are four of my regular stops. Now what I’m about to say may **** some people off but it shouldn’t and its not meant to offend. It is unfair to compare Columbus and Macon to Savannah and Augusta. The other two are so far ahead and it’s really like comparing apples to oranges and I’m not talking about quality necessarily.


When you talk about becoming the next Greenville, first things’ first Columbus and Macon are lacking the two big things that Savannah and Augusta already have. That’s tourism (Savannah) and population (Augusta). And those things are very important. Do you think Atlanta would have all of the businesses and other benefits it has without population or tourism? Some may try to argue that Augusta is not that much bigger but it’s nearly 40 to 50 percent larger than Macon and Columbus and no one would argue that Savannah with it’s poximity to the ocean does not have more tourists. Instead of trying to outdo Savannah or Augusta, Columbus and Macon have to work on their own niches because they have several things to offer, Macon with it’s close poximity to Atlanta and Columbus as probably the biggest metro in for a couple of hundred miles. By the way this argument that Columbus’s downtown is more vibrant than Augusta’s is very erroneous. Augusta has many more businesses, restuarants and clubs downtown than Columbus but it should because again, it’s a much bigger metro. Columbus and Macon don’t need to worry about becoming like Greenville because they’re not comparable in size to Greenville. I could see Columbus and Macon becoming larger versions of Athens which would definitely be nothing to sneeze at if they accomplished this.


Now onto Augusta and Savannah. First of all as that article that someone posted from ESPN stated, Augusta is a major city (and probably the only one in Georgia besides Atlanta. Savannah could possibly be considered one too but it’s more of a tourist spot.) It has over 520,000 Some businesses won’t even locate in a city if there are not at least half a million people in the area OR it’s a tourist destiniation and that’s another reason why clearly Savannah and Augusta are in another league. Now as that same article aslo noted, it said that there is a small town mentality in Augusta. Many people in Augusta don’t even realize what they have. There are so many more things that could be done in Augusta if it marketed itself correctly. Part of the reason that Augusta gets compared to Macon and Columbus is probably because Augusta itself doesn’t recognize that it has much more potential than the others. When I talk to clients in Augusta and they tell me that there’s nothing to do I laugh to myself. I’m never bored when I travel to Augusta, but my job usually has a list of events or attractions in whichever city I go to so I don’t have to look. I have told people in Augusta about things going on in their own city that they didn’t even know about and it’s sad. I will say that things appear to be looking up for Augusta. There’s a lot more growth going on and the the city is acutally drawing back some of the population it lost to the suburbs. And with gas prices going the way they are, you can bet more will follow. And when those people come from the suburbs back downtown don’t think they are going to just sit and let downtown remain status quo. Now comparing downtown to 4 years ago when I first started coming to Augusta it’s much better and it seems to be doing things to turn around the city. So I’m remaining optimistic.

As for Savannah, I’m not sure that Savannah really needs to become the next Greenville. It already has it’s own identity and it should keep it. Could it use some improvements? Sure, but overall I’m pleased with Savannah and what it has to offer. [/font][/SIZE]

[JLA]

Originally Posted by bryant501

This is coming from someone from the outside looking in. I live in Atlanta but due to by job travel all across the southeast on a regular basis and Savannah, Augusta, Macon and Columbus are four of my regular stops. Now what I’m about to say may **** some people off but it shouldn’t and its not meant to offend. It is unfair to compare Columbus and Macon to Savannah and Augusta. The other two are so far ahead and it’s really like comparing apples to oranges and I’m not talking about quality necessarily.


When you talk about becoming the next Greenville, first things’ first Columbus and Macon are lacking the two big things that Savannah and Augusta already have. That’s tourism (Savannah) and population (Augusta). And those things are very important. Do you think Atlanta would have all of the businesses and other benefits it has without population or tourism? Some may try to argue that Augusta is not that much bigger but it’s nearly 40 to 50 percent larger than Macon and Columbus and no one would argue that Savannah with it’s poximity to the ocean does not have more tourists. Instead of trying to outdo Savannah or Augusta, Columbus and Macon have to work on their own niches because they have several things to offer, Macon with it’s close poximity to Atlanta and Columbus as probably the biggest metro in for a couple of hundred miles. By the way this argument that Columbus’s downtown is more vibrant than Augusta’s is very erroneous. Augusta has many more businesses, restuarants and clubs downtown than Columbus but it should because again, it’s a much bigger metro. Columbus and Macon don’t need to worry about becoming like Greenville because they’re not comparable in size to Greenville. I could see Columbus and Macon becoming larger versions of Athens which would definitely be nothing to sneeze at if they accomplished this.


Now onto Augusta and Savannah. First of all as that article that someone posted from ESPN stated, Augusta is a major city (and probably the only one in Georgia besides Atlanta. Savannah could possibly be considered one too but it’s more of a tourist spot.) It has over 520,000 Some businesses won’t even locate in a city if there are not at least half a million people in the area OR it’s a tourist destiniation and that’s another reason why clearly Savannah and Augusta are in another league. Now as that same article aslo noted, it said that there is a small town mentality in Augusta. Many people in Augusta don’t even realize what they have. There are so many more things that could be done in Augusta if it marketed itself correctly. Part of the reason that Augusta gets compared to Macon and Columbus is probably because Augusta itself doesn’t recognize that it has much more potential than the others. When I talk to clients in Augusta and they tell me that there’s nothing to do I laugh to myself. I’m never bored when I travel to Augusta, but my job usually has a list of events or attractions in whichever city I go to so I don’t have to look. I have told people in Augusta about things going on in their own city that they didn’t even know about and it’s sad. I will say that things appear to be looking up for Augusta. There’s a lot more growth going on and the the city is acutally drawing back some of the population it lost to the suburbs. And with gas prices going the way they are, you can bet more will follow. And when those people come from the suburbs back downtown don’t think they are going to just sit and let downtown remain status quo. Now comparing downtown to 4 years ago when I first started coming to Augusta it’s much better and it seems to be doing things to turn around the city. So I’m remaining optimistic.

As for Savannah, I’m not sure that Savannah really needs to become the next Greenville. It already has it’s own identity and it should keep it. Could it use some improvements? Sure, but overall I’m pleased with Savannah and what it has to offer. [/font][/SIZE]

Now I see. Thanks for enlightening me. Let's see Columbus actually have African Americans, Caucasians, Asians and Hispanics working together to get things done and have been doing it for some time, but it trails Augusta, GA of all places. Watch out Columbus, Augusta is coming.

[ATLCOL1]

Originally Posted by JLA

Now I see. Thanks for enlightening me. Let's see Columbus actually have African Americans, Caucasians, Asians and Hispanics working together to get things done and have been doing it for some time, but it trails Augusta, GA of all places. Watch out Columbus, Augusta is coming.

, if I recall, didn't Augusta city leaders make a trip to Columbus to see how Columbus leaders get things done down here? Columbus and Macon are no way far behind Augusta. In my opinion, Columbus and Macon are ahead of Augusta.

[bryant501]

But why does it have to be a competition?? That's my point. It seems there's an inferiority complex going on and shouldn't be. You know I read a lot of posts from people Macon and Columbus who get defensive because of their postition in the state and try to bash Augusta because it's the next largest city and when Georgia is mentioned Atlanta, Augusta and Savannah are mentioned. But nowhere did I say that Augusta was ahead of Columbus and Macon. I said it was larger and therefore has the backbone to become a "Greenville" and also due to it's size, it's going to have more to offer. Atlanta doesn't have the best leadership either but that dosn't mean it's not a major city. The same thing with a Augusta.

Athens has done a good job carving out it's niche and becoming a very nice city. I don't see why Macon and Columbus can't do the same but on a larger scale without trying to put themselves in competition with Savannah or Augusta. Athens is one of the nicest places in Georgia because instead of trying to become the next major city in Georgia, they capatilzied on what they were, a booming college town.

[brentyoung12]

Yea bryant, I agree and have several times said you can't compare Macon and Columbus to Augusta and Savannah because of the reasons mentioned.

I know Columbus boosters will talk about how many more jobs, developments, people, etc. are supposed to be coming there over the other cities, but seriously what is Columbus going to do to make it feel more "urban"? It lacks that more than all the other cities to me.

Columbus looks more like a city of 70,000 than 190,000 to me. It does not look or have as many things as cities with similar populations like Huntsville, Alabama. Someone please explain this, there has to be a reason.

[Augustabuckeye]

What amazes me is the overall level of hostility that appears between fans of each city. I always thought that I rising tide lifted all boats...Its not a zero sum game.

Have lived in Augusta for 3 years but started woking here in the late 1980's. I seen significant changes downtown and I hope that the trend continues...for all of the GA and SC.

[yerocal]

The Reason people from Macon and Columbus get so defensive is because of statements like this “Columbus and Macon don’t need to worry about becoming like Greenville because they’re not comparable in size to Greenville. I could see Columbus and Macon becoming larger versions of Athens which would definitely be nothing to sneeze at if they accomplished this” It as though you are trying to say Augusta compared to Columbus and Macon are like comparing Atlanta to Augusta. When comes over as being a insult or as if Columbus and Macon are nothing growing or has any thing to offer… I visit Augusta and Columbus, I live in Macon and there is no more outstanding in Augusta than in Columbus and Macon. All of these cities are very closely comparable except for a few differences. I feel that Columbus and Macon have just as much potential to become a Greenville or even a Tampa or Charlotte if the leaders and communities would take the necessary planning and collaborations. There no way you can tell me that tourism is what led to most of the huge growth in Atlanta, because if so, what has Savannah and Augusta been waiting on? What fuels Atlanta growth is it infrastructure, and characteristics and amenities is has to offer to developers (Trains, Airport & huge interstate access, GA state capital, less restrictions on developments and No historic hindrances which prohibits modernize developments in the historic parts of town ) in addition to tourism. If you notice GA has a pop of over 9 million, which 5 million lives in Metro Atlanta That’s more people in Metros of Washington DC & Baltimore, MD combined. The reason everyone is going to ATL is because the other GA 2nd tier cities have nothing to offer. If you compare just the states that border GA (AL, SC, TN & Fl) they all have at least 2 cities with major or large city amenities (DT high-rises, transportation and etc). Example AL (Birmingham, Huntsville & Mobile), TN (Memphis, Nashville &Knoxville), SC (Columbia, Charleston & Greenville), Fl (Tampa, Jacksonville, Miami & Orlando) and GA (Atlanta) what is wrong with GA 2nd tier cities. NO modernize infrastructure, NO demanding amenities and small town mentalities.