What makes a bad/good school? (Atlanta: renting, homes, neighborhood)

[Maria3]

Well I am in the process of moving to Atlanta. I have been researching many,many schools because I have a special needs son with ID(intelellectually diasbled or deficient-not sure how Georgia classifies this.)So my quest is even harder. Every community states great place to live with good schools.ok --but I need a good school with a good special ed program. Much harder to find. The report card the state of Georgia gives(outhttp://www.gppf.org/pub/Education/reportcard05/Hsrc2005alpha.pdf) is a good place to start but it doesn't grade the special ed programs just the regular academics. So I understand that the statement " good schools " can be kind of meaningless unless you back it up with specifics. I tried calling the special ed coordinators of different school districts and some would say "all our schools are good" That is not true. Not every school has a good special ed program.Unfortunately with special needs children you don't have the luxury of time. Everyday in the classroom that is appropriate for them is a huge step forward. If you land in the wrong school -your child can lose alot in 1 year. SO I am looking for a "good" school for my special needs son and a good school for my 8th grader and senior to be. Walton High and the feeder schools have all come very highly recommended. Their website show a very high number of special ed teachers-That's a good criteria for good schools.
Their PTA also has a committee(chair) for exceptional children-special ed. That's also a good criteria for a "good" school.
Basically you have to research and research and hope you hit the jackpot when you finally decide which school to go to. If anybody has any suggestions --I am totally open. My husband will work in downtown Atlanta.
We have been told to stay away from Dekalb and Gwinnett Counties. Then we are told that Dekalb and qwinnet county are good and closer to downtown than East Cobb. So finding a "good school" is becoming a full time job.

[jxu66]

Also, check out ga doe for latest stat. The report card Maria3 site mentioned use stats from two years ago.

http://reportcard2006.gaosa.org/k12/default.aspx

[gt6974a]

Well... you can check out www.greatschools.com for ratios, scores, etc.

I'll probably get slammed for some of my comments but here's my opinion...

People on this board who are mainly transplants love their diversity(specifically ethnic diversity) yet they want good schools. You'll see East Cobb come up repeatidly. Well this area is full of expensive houses, mostly white, rich, snobby people as most refer to them on here.

The fact is that where there are higher home prices (which correlates to more weathly and mostly white families) the test scores are higher and more students are Hope eligible(high avg gpa).

I grew up in Cobb County and graduated in 1996 from North Cobb High School(served Acworth and Kennesaw). At the time it was mostly white(I'd guess 90%), now it's only like 65% white. 1996 was the last time the school was awarded 'School of Excellence'.

My graduating class was around 330 people. My sisters, just 5 and 6 years younger had graduating classes of 650-750.

I personally think kids will succeed based on their parents actions no matter where they live but the facts/statistics say a Walton/Lassiter/Harrison student will score better on tests and have higher GPA's. These just happen to be the higher home valued areas.

My Dad went to North Cobb, graduated in the mid-late 60's with 60 people in his class, served 2 terms in Vietnam and graduated from UGA. My parents didn't pick an area based on schools and we turned out well. An engineer, a teacher, and a nurse. Cobb, and it's reputation, just happened to improve while they lived here.

I think thoughts have changed on 'schools'. I think more people rely on the schools to do the job rather than themselves, that's why people ask these questions. I have several friends who are teachers or married/date teachers(many with Master degrees), and my sister who is a second grade teacher, step-sister who is an 8th grade teacher. All Cobb County teachers at that.

My mother has worked for Cobb County Schools for 20+ years. For one of these teachers to switch from say a Pebblebrook to a Walton is all but a spot and an application. So IMO, the teachers are all comprable b/t the schools, but yet the grades/stats are not.

In the end, it's the parents whom make the difference, not the schools.

When,the each kid gets a laptop thing came out, I was told by my mom, 6 months before the public. When she told me this I was horrified. Note, I'm a software engineer/programmer, I make my life with a computer. I told her it was a horrible idea. Seems cool but a computer is just a tool, like a calculator, but you have to put in the work to 'LEARN' the math. I see teachers similarly, they are a TOOL for kids, they provide the means to LEARN but it's up to the kids to learn, AND their PARENTS to make sure they do, not the school!!!

I listen to Boortz and he bashes public schools alot, I tend to disagree with most of his points on this subject. In the end it's still about self-learning/parents.

A side thought/comparison, all y'all transplants who view the South and anyone who has a Rebel flag as racist probably didn't take a Georgia history class, or Southern history class. You took a New York, Northern, or some other history class, as I shouldn't comment on your history before I read up on it. You see a rebel flag and you think, racist. The recent 'Dukes of Hazzard' movie got me fired up about this. The flag represents a culture, southern way of life, a history.

I don't agree with racism, and slavery would have ended eventually, but it's better is happened when it did. But don't think for a minute, our country's bloodiest war, in the 1860's, 860,000 white men died to free or keep slavery. It was about states rights and economic power and at the time. According to signed documentation but all original states, the Southern states did have the right to secede from the union.

Ask a high schooler, black/white/asian/indian why there was a civil war and see what their response is? Hell, ask them about Native Americans and see if they respond that we stole thier land, killed them, put them on reservations, and how their economic situation is so terrible today.

In conclusion to the whole teachers/good schools and quoting 'Good Will Hunting'

"You wasted $150,000 on an education you coulda got for a buck fifty in late charges at the public library"

[atlanta]

My four children's ages today range from 24 to 40. I point this out to demonstrate that I had children in schools at different periods of time. Two graduated from school in Columbus, Muscogee Co. Two graduated from high school in Gwinnett Co. Two were honor roll students, one was average, one struggled. None graduated in the top 10% of their classes. Three were involved in activities and sports.

My point: Gwinnett Co. schools are ranked 'considerably' higher than Muscogee Co. schools. One of Gwinnett Co.'s claims to fame - good schools. In the end, I can see very little difference in the education my children received. None were scholars, but all received good educations.

What we experienced that was superior as far as Gwinnett vs Muscogee schools is that the facilities were better in Gwinnett. For example, the sports programs were much advanced. By that I mean, the sports programs in which we were involved were funded (partly by parents/community) more extensively therefore providing more equipment, coaches, facilities, camps, etc. I must also add that none of my children went on to play sports after high school, although they took away tremendous memories and knowledge from their activities.

So, my take is that "good" schools provide the facilities in which young people can learn to open their minds to learn for a lifetime. Certain counties are able and choose to provide better facilities than others through higher taxes. A school ideally is supported not just by parents but the entire community - both financially and emotionally. That support from the community was found at our Gwinnett Co. school but not at our Muscogee Co. school.

[nadinethehowlingdemocrat]

The state of Georga says that a teacher is a person who can stimulate learning. So if the teacher is there just for the position and not for the mission then the school will be a bad school. If the teacher is there to stimulate learning by motivating the student and involving the parent, then the school is a good school. Homework and attendance are the keys to a good school. Homework and attendance are the preparations for good test scores. Homework and attendance are our children's best friends and the enemies of the department of corrections.

Therefore parents should demand homework and send,take or drag their children to school each day.

[mamamarie]

Originally Posted by nadinethehowlingdemocrat

The state of Georga says that a teacher is a person who can stimulate learning. So if the teacher is there just for the position and not for the mission then the school will be a bad school. If the teacher is there to stimulate learning by motivating the student and involving the parent, then the school is a good school. Homework and attendance are the keys to a good school. Homework and attendance are the preparations for good test scores. Homework and attendance are our children's best friends and the enemies of the department of corrections.

Therefore parents should demand homework and send,take or drag their children to school each day.

I agree (being a teacher) BUT you failed to mention that after the teacher "motivates the student and involves the parent" the parent MUST be involved. I think that since many "Bad" schools are in low economic areas there are parents who are not involved in their child's education and therefore the child does not have that teacher-parent involvement that they need. Teachers try to be there for all of their students but with classes of 20+ you need parents to be there for their kids too. I think that parent involvement is just as important as a strong teacher if more so. JMHO.

[nadinethehowlingdemocrat]

Originally Posted by mamamarie

I agree (being a teacher) BUT you failed to mention that after the teacher "motivates the student and involves the parent" the parent MUST be involved. I think that since many "Bad" schools are in low economic areas there are parents who are not involved in their child's education and therefore the child does not have that teacher-parent involvement that they need. Teachers try to be there for all of their students but with classes of 20+ you need parents to be there for their kids too. I think that parent involvement is just as important as a strong teacher if more so. JMHO.

A teacher must have the ability to assess a student's learning needs. And that would include also knowing that as the shifts get darker, the people do too. Most of your parents in low economic areas work two and sometimes three parttime jobs. These schools are bad schools only because the appearance is neglected and they teachers in these areas are treated unfairly.

Since you are a teacher you know that these schools frequently end up with year round substitute teachers teaching subjects in which they are not qualified. But it is a blessing that they are there because these schools need somebody.

A student spends more time at school than at home. In an eight hour day, a teacher should be able to do the job even if the parent isn't around. A teachers job is to use every creative mechanism possible to make sure that a child learns and to make sure that school is so much fun that a child will wake up in the morning. eager to get there.

I remember during the early fifties and sixties, we couldn't wait to get to school. We had the kind of teachers who made us believe that we were going to miss something if we didn't come. Those teachers, who had less to work with, especially those in my schools, did all on their own. There were at least 40 students in each classroom and no technology then. When I look around the United States, I see judges, state legislators, several ph.d., a couple of actresses, doctors and lawyers. all from my schools.

Teachers today have computers to grade papers and average scores and print report cards, aides, freedays every other month preprinted tests, home copiers and twenty students.

Teachers of yesterday had a mimeograph machine that everyone had to use. Two free days a year.
They had to create and type their own tests and grade them. Their report cards were done by hand from a roll book. Their grades were averaged by hand. Calcualtors were available but rare. They had forty students. They read every paper. They plenty of red ink pens and more patience than there is water in the sea.

The difference is. They viewed their job as a profession that should be respected and they carried themselves in an imperial manner. When in the classroom, they taught from the gut because their students represented them and they wanted anything representing them to turn out right and look good. It wasn't about money, it was about self-projecting through others to make a positive impact on mankind.

We get togehter and go back to the old neighborhood, that part which has not been torn down and we don't really see the shabby shotgun houses with the bathroom on the back porch. (Most of us, our garages are larger than the homes that we grew up in.) We see our hiding places during hide and go seek, we see the bowing porch on which we lay at night because it was too hot to sleep indoors. While on that porch, we looked for constellations. (Our teacher found out that we (more like a sleep over of all the neighborhood kids) slept on the porch, she gave us a book and told us to look for the Milky way, Cassopoiea, and many others while we were out there. Our parents didn't know anything about astonomy. The only help that they could give us and the teacher was the assurance that we wouldn't get mustard or syrup on the book.

The teachers took our faults and made them our gems. I loved to talk, so I ended up teaching class once a week and had to be prepared. My best friend whose ambition was to be a glamorous movie star, (now deceased,) always got caught passing notes, so she ended up diagraming sentences in front of the class. The sentences were from a glamour magazine.

The ones who liked to fight had to box. But they had to act as a real boxer. They would introduce themselves, tell their history, how many fights that they won or lost. In our class James Braddock (A classmate called Tim) beat Joe Louis ( a classmate call Rhodney). We knew that this was not true historically because before they fought Joe Louis said that he beat James Braddock.

I came from a low socioeconomic background. My mother worked second shift in the mill and my father drove trucks. Whatever my teachers told them to do, they did just that. They were not around to see me study or make sure that I got my homework, but our teachers knew the ones of us whose parents worked late and she gave us a homework hour. We still had to take the homework home so that our parents could sign it.

Then, society and teachers did not rate a school based on the money that a child's parents earned. Morality, learning and fun were emphasized to us. Not the amount of money that our parents made. But now we have become entranched in a society that place so much emphasis on success that morality has become lost in the shadows. That being said, even though we were poor, we did not know it because no one really cared. We only wanted to know who could hit the ball the hardest, how many spelling words we needed to learn in order to watch the Real McCoys on TV or who just had a new baby brother.

If it were not for poor children, many schools would not receive government funding that get lost in paying salaries for created jobs instead of being spent on the students. The meals would be too expensive for good wages earners if not for the government funded freelunch program. Actually the poor benefit the school system in many ways but the school system does not benefit the poor to the level that they should. And that is, making all things equal. With the money pouring into the school system today, all things should be equal. Teachers and administrators are too job scared to raise the hell that they need to raise. The school suffers because of this. So since the teachers are too afraid to voice these inequities to the administrators, they, like water, flow in the way of least resistance, blame it on the parents. Scapegoating the parents.

It was well dressed, articulate teachers, a doting workaholic father and a hardworking mother who groomed me for life. I left Columbus on a trailways bus. I had to sit cramped in the back because of segregation.(Jim Crow was outlawed but the behavior was still there.) I arrived in Greensboro, North Carolina to attend college wearing brand new clothes from Kirvens and I still looked like an eighteenth century hickeybilly.

Good manners and humility got me where money couldn't. I promised myself that I would make all A's, not for me, but for my well dressed articulate teachers and my parents.

That's been forty years ago. I still talk a lot, I am not a compulsive shopper but I do buy and wear clothes because of my teachers. I am not financially compromised. That ended once my father joined the Teamsters. I have never had to work for minimal wage. It has always been the voices of my teachers that sustained me as I attained each degree. It was my teachers who encouraged my mother, then a long time empty nester, to get a GED in 1979. I flew home for the occassion.The happiest day in her life was when we all graduated from college. The second happiest day in her life was when she graduated from high school. When it came to our births, she admittded that she wasn't happy about it, (no trumpet sounding) but she was glad that we came because she enjoyed us. (She would have graduated high school in 1953).

I just retired back to a neighborhood that I left. My second home house still stands. I moved in.Only 1700 square feet. I don't know how the four of us lived in it. Both parents deceased and my own kids professionals, I need something to do. I have plans for the area. Especially the schools.

So, I tell you with the most fervent conviction, If a school is bad or if it is failing, then the blame lies with the teachers and the administration, not the parents. It is time for teachers to stop passing the buck. Those who really want to teach should teach, those who are just there for a paycheck are a menace to society and should find a more suitable profession.

[Merin]

I am a transplant, in an interracial marriage, who values diverstiy. We currenty live in the City of Atlanta, and love it. However we know we need to move once we have children. I will be moving to East Cobb because of the schools. My husband and I both went to High Schools ranked ALOT higher than Walton. We had high SAT scores, go into the schools we wanted, and more importantly made the transition into college easier. I have friends who moved to bad schools districts in both Atlanta and the Atlanta burbs. Their stories scare me. One friend was told that their school had no Gifted program. Before moving here I didnt think that was possible. If good schools are about parents, I have no desire to be a pioneer.

[nadinethehowlingdemocrat]

Originally Posted by Merin

I am a transplant, in an interracial marriage, who values diverstiy. We currenty live in the City of Atlanta, and love it. However we know we need to move once we have children. I will be moving to East Cobb because of the schools. My husband and I both went to High Schools ranked ALOT higher than Walton. We had high SAT scores, go into the schools we wanted, and more importantly made the transition into college easier. I have friends who moved to bad schools districts in both Atlanta and the Atlanta burbs. Their stories scare me. One friend was told that their school had no Gifted program. Before moving here I didnt think that was possible. If good schools are about parents, I have no desire to be a pioneer.

I AGREE WITH YOU MERIN. The school board and administration are the ones responsible for establishing gifted programs in the schools. Every school should have an accellerated program because there are smart kids in every school no matter what the socioeconomic.

A school reflects the value that the teachers and the administors place on the children in that school. The parents job is to let any inequities or any unprofessionalism or any need for praise be known. A parent should make sure that the child attends school, respect the teachers and the administrators and get the homework.

Parents should remove their school board member if their school is a failing school.

[lastminutemom]

"So, I tell you with the most fervent conviction, If a school is bad or if it is failing, then the blame lies with the teachers and the administration, not the parents. It is time for teachers to stop passing the buck. Those who really want to teach should teach, those who are just there for a paycheck are a menace to society and should find a more suitable profession.

Reallly, you believe this? You don't believe that a school where every child has two parents (or at least the vast majority), one of whom is at home with them, where every parent, through their own life experiences, values education, and where every parents respects the teachers and the school discipline is easier than schools where the situation is different?

Poverty is very different than 40 years ago. Families like yours valued education and saw it is as the path out of poverty -- the light at the end of the tunnel so to speak. Mutli-generational poverty is by far one of the hardest challenges this country faces when it comes to educaiton.

When you went to school, I am guessing pre Brown vs Board of Ed, your teachers most likely were neighbors of yours, lived in your community, worshipped in the same churches. Parents and students respected and adored their teachers.

Most poor children have only one parent, who may or may not have graduated high school and possibly has literacy issues of their own. 40 years ago, there was just a few hours of TV a WEEK that was appropriate for kids -- now TV is 24 hours a day.

Finally, I bet if the teacher called your parents back them, they rushed in for a meeting. I have spent numerous hours during the last decade working with educators who can't get parents to even answer the phone -- let alone make time for a meeting. At a PTA meeting, and this was at a good school, one parent asked the principal if she really needed to call her every time her son acted up -- it stressed her out.

For many teachers, it isn't about the dollar, but it is about school climate. Many teachers start off wanting to work in challenging schools, but quickly tire of the lack of parental and perhaps school system support and move on to easier schools. Research consistenly shows that the most challenging schools have the least experienced teachers and the most teacher turnover. Cobb County just ended a program where they paid teachers $5000 extra a year to work in their most challenging schools. Why? Because it didn't work, the teachers, over and over again, decided that the heartaches weren't worth the money.