Vision For High-Speed Rail In America (Atlanta, Savannah: school, costs, airport)

[jetgraphics]

RAILFAN RESOURCES.

The Oil Drum | Multiple Birds – One Silver BB: A synergistic set of solutions to multiple issues focused on Electrified Railroads
:: Excellent article on the benefits of electrification of mainline RRs

NARP: National Association of Railroad Passengers
Rails - New Mexico's Passenger Rail Action Group
Rail-Videos.Net - Online Railroad Video Database
THE TROLLEY STOP :: Great introduction to the history of electric streetcars / trolleys / trams
Welcome to world.nycsubway.org :: Though NYC is emphasized, there is a great collection of photos from all around
http://www.apta.com
RailroadForums.com - Railroad discussion forum and photo gallery
LRTA - The Light Rail Transit Association site

strickland.ca - transportation energy efficiency (fuel consumption) :: Cogent energy efficiency comparisons of current transportation

A transportation system that relies on a "non-renewable" resource is bound for collapse - the only question is whether we adapt in time, not whether we need to adapt. --- Strickland.


Rail based transit is not "cheap" - but it is not as expensive as the automobile based transportation system.If America didn't have "cheap and plentiful" petroleum, and the political shenanigans of the oil/tire/vehicle cartel, the robust rail network of the 19th and early 20th century would have remained available, and we might have been able to avoid the "pain at the pump" as well as the pain in the lungs from infernal combustion engines.

[NewtownMacon]

If this project is Succesfull which i pray it does, it going to bring a lot positive to growth Ga's cities..... It will also help lure officals from choosing Chattanooga as a reliever airport for Atlanta and more towards Macon since you can just take a train to Macon"s MGA Regional Airport for flights. Here is a Article about the rail project in the Macon News today....
13WMAZ.com | Macon, GA | High-Speed Rail Could Boost Midstate Economy
http://www.sehsr.org/reports/hsr/eval_hsr_options.pdf

[southgeorgia]

Originally Posted by NewtownMacon

If this project is Succesfull which i pray it does, it going to bring a lot positive to growth Ga's cities.....

it will take more than prayers to make it a success.


and how will it bring positive growth to GA's cities. How many station will there be in GA? I saw at least two, possibly three.

Amtrak has done wonders for Jesup, hasn't it?


If this thing goes through, it will take another generation to get it built. It will be mired in litigation for years, with battles over eminent domain raging on, and billions to be paid out in lawsuits over below-market-value payments, and redesigns to the path because of land they won't be able to get.

Building it for the sake of building it is the worst thing you can possibly do.

How about we focus on getting out of debt instead of spending more?

I think we can keep driving our automobiles for another 4 decades,; don't you? We've got the technology to make autos more efficient; it just hasn't been given to us yet because the oil companies continually buy the patents to keep it out of the market, and because of government regulations that currently exist. It will be given to us when it absolutely has to.


In 4 years, once the republicans retake the white house, this will all be nothing but a bad dream.

[neil0311]

Jetgraphics...this is not a question of whether or not we have oil or if the oil apocalypse is upon us. It's a question of what this type of rail can and will do to solve that problem. As I stated, mass transit in Atlanta, maybe....that could solve some issues and take cars off the road. Rail from Atlanta to Savannah or JAX will have minimal impact for the dollars spent.

[neil0311]

Originally Posted by gaflsc

Airplanes & automobiles. You got it!

Don't know if you're being sarcastic...but I'm not advocating planes and automobiles out of some love for them, but just pointing out that given the distances in most of the US, planes are the best method of transport and trains aren't. In the northeast, high speed rail is a good bet and can provide an alternative. In most other areas, it's not practical.

Do you want to sit on a train for 8 hours (or whatever the time) to get from Atlanta to DC or Miami? No thanks...I'll take the 90 min flight.

[jetgraphics]

Originally Posted by neil0311

Jetgraphics...this is not a question of whether or not we have oil or if the oil apocalypse is upon us. It's a question of what this type of rail can and will do to solve that problem. As I stated, mass transit in Atlanta, maybe....that could solve some issues and take cars off the road. Rail from Atlanta to Savannah or JAX will have minimal impact for the dollars spent.

"Dollars spent" may be a misleading measure of desirability. Overall, in terms of energy consumed per unit of cargo or passenger / mile, rail wins.

When / if oil skyrockets in price, and air travel becomes too expensive for the majority, what would remain?
Automobiles? Nope.
Diesel buses? Nope.

I concluded that electric rail, though nineteenth century, is still more desirable / affordable than other alternatives.

If / when mag-lev technology drops in cost, then I would support it over high speed rail. But it would be far wiser to build, electrify and rebuild the rail network that once served the USA.

And to approach the speeds of high speed rail in Europe and Asia, it would require segregated rights of way, because current tracks are built to a different standard (FRA) and optimized for slow, heavy freight.

High-speed rail - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
High-speed rail is a type of passenger rail transport that operates significantly faster than the normal speed of rail traffic. Specific definitions include 200 km/h (125 mph) and faster — depending on whether the track is upgraded or new — by the European Union, and above 90 mph (145 km/h) by the United States Federal Railroad Administration, but there is no single standard, and lower speeds can be required by local constraints.

Atlanta to Savannah (250 mi), at 125 MPH, would require about 2 hours.
Atlanta to Jacksonville, FL (350 mi), at 125 MPH, would require about 3 hours.

High-speed rail - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The highest scheduled average speed between two scheduled stops is held by TGV and ICE service on part of the TGV Est Line in France at 279.4 km/h (173.6 mph) from Lorraine-TGV to Champagne-Ardennes-TGV (167.66 km in 36 min) and Nozomi Shinkansen at 261.8 km/h (162.7 mph) from Hiroshima to Kokura according to the last official Railway Gazette International World Speed Survey study in 2005. With the introduction of the new N700 Shinkansen on July 1, 2007, the Kokura to Hiroshima time may have decreased further.

Atlanta to Savannah (250 mi), at 170 MPH, would require about 1 1/2 hours.
Atlanta to Jacksonville, FL (350 mi), at 170 MPH, would require about 2 hours.

I conclude that the high speed corridor should be designed for a far higher speed than 90 MPH (FRA), perhaps no less than 200 MPH.

[jetgraphics]

Originally Posted by neil0311

Do you want to sit on a train for 8 hours (or whatever the time) to get from Atlanta to DC or Miami? No thanks...I'll take the 90 min flight.

If you're going to use a jet airliner as your basis, let's use a state of the art HSR, too.

Atlanta - DC (637 mi) via 200 MPH express "Bullet Train", is roughly 3 hours.
(city center to city center)

90 minute flight + travel to / from airport (?) + 1.5 hours in security

strickland.ca - transportation energy efficiency (fuel consumption)
Passenger-miles per gallon (gasoline equiv.)
HSR (300 km/h) - - - 630
Airliner - - - 70

[neil0311]

jetgraphics...I've ridden the TGV, the German equivalent, Brit Rail 125s, etc. It might also surprise you to know that I'm a member of the ERA and the NRHS (you'll know what they are), and I used to volunteer at Branford and Seashore, and some of my close friends have been or are now senior management at APTA, the CTA in Chicago, and the NYCTA in NY (send me a PM if you want to discuss details). I understand transit and railroads very, very well, but I'm realistic as to the limits and context of intercity rail in the US.

There is a huge difference between traveling between Paris and Brussels and between Atlanta and Savannah. You just cannot compare US domestic travel with European travel. The two are apples and oranges.

[gaflsc]

Originally Posted by southgeorgia

it will take more than prayers to make it a success.


and how will it bring positive growth to GA's cities. How many station will there be in GA? I saw at least two, possibly three.

Amtrak has done wonders for Jesup, hasn't it?


If this thing goes through, it will take another generation to get it built. It will be mired in litigation for years, with battles over eminent domain raging on, and billions to be paid out in lawsuits over below-market-value payments, and redesigns to the path because of land they won't be able to get.

Building it for the sake of building it is the worst thing you can possibly do.

How about we focus on getting out of debt instead of spending more?

I think we can keep driving our automobiles for another 4 decades,; don't you? We've got the technology to make autos more efficient; it just hasn't been given to us yet because the oil companies continually buy the patents to keep it out of the market, and because of government regulations that currently exist. It will be given to us when it absolutely has to.


In 4 years, once the republicans retake the white house, this will all be nothing but a bad dream.

Agreed....and I hope so as well.

[NewtownMacon]

Originally Posted by neil0311

There is a huge difference between traveling between Paris and Brussels and between Atlanta and Savannah. You just cannot compare US domestic travel with European travel. The two are apples and oranges.

What is the difference, whether its 100 or 1000 miles it still the same distance whether or not its in the US or Europe.