Columbus or Savannah may get Fortune 500 company (wages, move)

[JLA]

Originally Posted by Saintmarks

Hang in there ATLCOL, got the "with every silver lining, there is a big black cloud Bradley" going after you I see. What a downer. Why hasn't the attorney chimed in yet?

But more importantly, why aren't more people rejoicing for both the state of Georgia and for Atlanta and Columbus in particular?

Although I am not in the need of a job, I am extremely happy for Metro Columbus, Metro Atlanta and the state of Georgia. It needed a booster shot and it has gotten one. Looks like things are starting to turn around for the Peach State.

[gah]

As I understand it, Columbus is not stealing any jobs from Ohio. What is proposed is a new plant to build a new state-of-the-art ATM. NCR could have chosen any place to build a new plant and hire new employees, but chose Columbus. Ohio, like Savannah and Macon, simply did not get new jobs. Apparently the only jobs that Ohio lost are those being transferred to Duluth with the HQ's.

Columbus has certainly lost jobs over the last decade -- but not at a rate any different than other 2d-tier cities (Reynolds leaving Macon comes to mind, and I think that the S Korean plant announced for Augusta was never built and the auto plant in Savannah was eventually dropped). However, most of the lost jobs have been in mfg -- mainly textiles, but including a few hundred (mostly parttime) at Char-broil -- and low-paying. Jobs that have replaced them are somewhat more white-collar, higher paying. Also I dont remember anyone in Columbus crying foul and theft of jobs when Lummis -- a 100 year old concern -- pulled up stakes and moved to Savannah. The economy is heartless and jobs go where the employer thinks he or she can best make a profit.

In short Columbus is no better -- but certainly no worse -- than comparable cities in the SE. It does have to struggle because of a lack of interstate access and low-wage mentality -- due to a lack of foresightedness in the past. But change is coming slowly. An example is DT -- a work in progress. Anyone who remembers what it was like 10 years ago will be amazed at the change. Still has a longway to go -- Hopefully whitewater will be the next big breakthru -- with cafes, hotels, shops to follow.

and yes -- city finances are strained -- but so are other cities. Atlanta is a financial disaster for instance. All of the naysayers seem to fall into two categories. Those who are envious of what has been accomplished (new Civic Center, library, Symphony Hall, Riverwalk, museums, etc) and have a need to belittle other's achievements and those who are oblivious of the principle that "the perfect is the enemy of the good." Noone should suggest that Columbus is Paradise -- but any objective observer would recognize that -- warts and all -- it is committed to improvement. It may be too optimistic -- but the COLA region (Columbus, Opelika, LaGrange, Auburn) region could be a player in the 21st century and become a minature Research Triangle with automotive mfg concentrated in Lagrange @ Kia, research/high tech mainly in Auburn-Opelika and insurance/finance/defense/aerotech in Columbus. A dream maybe -- but contary to some of the doomsters -- not necessarily a pipe dream.

[BradleyCasonga]

Originally Posted by gah

As I understand it, Columbus is not stealing any jobs from Ohio. What is proposed is a new plant to build a new state-of-the-art ATM. NCR could have chosen any place to build a new plant and hire new employees, but chose Columbus. Ohio, like Savannah and Macon, simply did not get new jobs. Apparently the only jobs that Ohio lost are those being transferred to Duluth with the HQ's.

Columbus has certainly lost jobs over the last decade -- but not at a rate any different than other 2d-tier cities (Reynolds leaving Macon comes to mind, and I think that the S Korean plant announced for Augusta was never built and the auto plant in Savannah was eventually dropped). However, most of the lost jobs have been in mfg -- mainly textiles, but including a few hundred (mostly parttime) at Char-broil -- and low-paying. Jobs that have replaced them are somewhat more white-collar, higher paying. Also I dont remember anyone in Columbus crying foul and theft of jobs when Lummis -- a 100 year old concern -- pulled up stakes and moved to Savannah. The economy is heartless and jobs go where the employer thinks he or she can best make a profit.

In short Columbus is no better -- but certainly no worse -- than comparable cities in the SE. It does have to struggle because of a lack of interstate access and low-wage mentality -- due to a lack of foresightedness in the past. But change is coming slowly. An example is DT -- a work in progress. Anyone who remembers what it was like 10 years ago will be amazed at the change. Still has a longway to go -- Hopefully whitewater will be the next big breakthru -- with cafes, hotels, shops to follow.

and yes -- city finances are strained -- but so are other cities. Atlanta is a financial disaster for instance. All of the naysayers seem to fall into two categories. Those who are envious of what has been accomplished (new Civic Center, library, Symphony Hall, Riverwalk, museums, etc) and have a need to belittle other's achievements and those who are oblivious of the principle that "the perfect is the enemy of the good." Noone should suggest that Columbus is Paradise -- but any objective observer would recognize that -- warts and all -- it is committed to improvement. It may be too optimistic -- but the COLA region (Columbus, Opelika, LaGrange, Auburn) region could be a player in the 21st century and become a minature Research Triangle with automotive mfg concentrated in Lagrange @ Kia, research/high tech mainly in Auburn-Opelika and insurance/finance/defense/aerotech in Columbus. A dream maybe -- but contary to some of the doomsters -- not necessarily a pipe dream.

There are too many political attitudes locally that will unfortunately make your dream a very distant one.
I along with hundreds of other local residents have heard the same words of optimism and change but it has never really materialized.
Too many years have been wasted and now with a lengthy recession the odds are just not with the city.
And they could have been a contender!!

[gah]

so -- who are the contenders? Easy to say that Columbus is not and whine about the past.

[BradleyCasonga]

Originally Posted by gah

so -- who are the contenders? Easy to say that Columbus is not and whine about the past.

You misunderstand.
I said Columbus could have been a contender but for whatever reason just dragged their feet waiting for ????(you fill in the blank)
The past is nothing to whine about but rather a factual reflection of the city that any reasonable person can understand.
You only get one shot to make things happen each day of our lives and they chose to keep the city confined.
I am sure you can understand that much.

[Saintmarks]

Originally Posted by BradleyCasonga

You misunderstand.
I said Columbus could have been a contender but for whatever reason just dragged their feet waiting for ????(you fill in the blank)
The past is nothing to whine about but rather a factual reflection of the city that any reasonable person can understand.
You only get one shot to make things happen each day of our lives and they chose to keep the city confined.
I am sure you can understand that much.

Don't understand at all. What other city it's size in the south is doing what you think it should and is gaining at Columbus' expense? What other city has the "theys" and "their" (the ubiquitous "them" that make all the decisions) who always make great decisions and don't drag their feet? Please give me an example.

Can you not go back and read your post and see that no matter what is said, you automatically throw a bucket of water on it?

Let's try it again. The sky is blue. What is your response to that?

[BradleyCasonga]

Originally Posted by Saintmarks

Don't understand at all. What other city it's size in the south is doing what you think it should and is gaining at Columbus' expense? What other city has the "theys" and "their" (the ubiquitous "them" that make all the decisions) who always make great decisions and don't drag their feet? Please give me an example.

Can you not go back and read your post and see that no matter what is said, you automatically throw a bucket of water on it?

Let's try it again. The sky is blue. What is your response to that?

It seems you are doing the same thing in regards to my posts.
Is it the same bucket of water by chance?
Probably.
As far as the sky goes you need to step outside and look up(unless it is raining)
Let me know what you see.

[gah]

Originally Posted by BradleyCasonga

You misunderstand.
I said Columbus could have been a contender but for whatever reason just dragged their feet waiting for ????(you fill in the blank)
The past is nothing to whine about but rather a factual reflection of the city that any reasonable person can understand.
You only get one shot to make things happen each day of our lives and they chose to keep the city confined.
I am sure you can understand that much.

Think you misunderstand -- i simply want to know what other city is a condender? Ie what city DID do the things that you seem to think Columbus missed?

The past is nothing to whine about -- but likewise the future is not anything to whine about either. Hope that you can understand that much. As you suggest we DO get a shot each day to make things better. the fact that the city "chose" (past tense) to keep the city confined does not have a thing to do with the future. As long as we dwell on the past and mistakes made then, very little chance for betterment. If the sky aint blue, it aint black either. It was looking backward that kept the city from progressing in the past and bemoaning that wont make for a better future.

[BradleyCasonga]

Originally Posted by gah

Think you misunderstand -- i simply want to know what other city is a condender? Ie what city DID do the things that you seem to think Columbus missed?

The past is nothing to whine about -- but likewise the future is not anything to whine about either. Hope that you can understand that much. As you suggest we DO get a shot each day to make things better. the fact that the city "chose" (past tense) to keep the city confined does not have a thing to do with the future. As long as we dwell on the past and mistakes made then, very little chance for betterment. If the sky aint blue, it aint black either. It was looking backward that kept the city from progressing in the past and bemoaning that wont make for a better future.

Actually the amount of time wasted in much better economic times of the past has a great deal to do with the future as it obviously will take the local community much longer to reach its goal.
I agree on not dwelling on the past but not LEARNING from past mistakes is a bigger issue for the city.
Right now the city cannot afford to do much of anything in the way of improvements and can only make things "happen" with state/federal handouts.
Time will tell I suppose.
I don't really understand your blue/black comment but doesn't really pertain to subject anyway.

[gah]

Originally Posted by BradleyCasonga

Actually the amount of time wasted in much better economic times of the past has a great deal to do with the future as it obviously will take the local community much longer to reach its goal.
I agree on not dwelling on the past but not LEARNING from past mistakes is a bigger issue for the city.
Right now the city cannot afford to do much of anything in the way of improvements and can only make things "happen" with state/federal handouts.
Time will tell I suppose.
I don't really understand your blue/black comment but doesn't really pertain to subject anyway.

You still avoid the question. What city has done better? Do you seriously think that noone understands and has not learned from the mistakes that were made in the past? Do you not think that the improvements like new library, civic center, DT etc are not reflections of a change in the mindset? What other city has the financiaql wherewithal to make things happen without state/federal assistance?

The blue/black comment is highly pertinent -- it refers to the other poster's blue sky comment and your response about rain. If the sky is not blue as some hope, it aint black like you portray it.