KB Homes (Woodstock: sale, HOA fees, home builder)

[BobKovacs]

Originally Posted by bc4672

Yes, get an inspector eventhough mine said he was impressed because normally KB homes are built like crap. I think what helped us is I went out to the house almost every other day and stayed on top of the builders. The sub contractors were awful. What happened to taking pride in your work?

For what the builders are paying the subs, you can't attract people who understand the concept of taking pride in your work- all you get is people who's mentality is "I've gotta hurry up and get onto the next house".

BTW- I'm surprised that the Martha Stewart subdivision in Woodstock is coming out so well- the one we looked at in South Fulton had about the worst level of finish I've seen in a long time.

[bc4672]

Originally Posted by BobKovacs

For what the builders are paying the subs, you can't attract people who understand the concept of taking pride in your work- all you get is people who's mentality is "I've gotta hurry up and get onto the next house".

BTW- I'm surprised that the Martha Stewart subdivision in Woodstock is coming out so well- the one we looked at in South Fulton had about the worst level of finish I've seen in a long time.

I wasn't impressed with the Hampton Oaks subdivision either. I think it also depends on the site managers. Ours are different from the guys in South Fulton. However, I can not speak for my neighbors about their construction. I know that we were constantly telling to fix finishing and cosmetic issues, which they did.

[396]

I am not pleased with my KB home either. I am in Fairburn Georgia, The Parks at Cedar Grove subdivision, close to the Hampton Oaks subdivision. The floor plans are nice and we have good size lots here, but the build quality is very poor. If they would just slow down and take more time to getting it right the first time, they would save a ton of money in warranty work. I have had them come in up to 4 times to fix the same problem over and over again! They really bad part is when they come in to fix one thing, they usually mess something else up. I can't tell you how tired I am of hearing, "this is industry standard", well I do not know what industry they are talking about. Some of the problems are common sense things, that you do not need to be a expert to know when it is wrong. For example, if you can see the shingles popping up off your roof, it should be no question, fix it, not some lame excuse, or if you can see beams or humps in your ceilings that this is not correct. Again, I like the floor plans, but put some pride in your product. Have your KB representatives treat the homeowners with respect and not to play them like fools.

[K'ledgeBldr]

Originally Posted by 396

I can't tell you how tired I am of hearing, "this is industry standard", well I do not know what industry they are talking about.

Wow! Not that I'm surprised- but as a H/O you should do some due dilegence.
If your builder is a member of a local builder's association- then he is also a member of the National Association of Home Builders.

The NAHB has published a book titled "Residential Construction Performance Guidelines" Homeowner Reference. This reference guide covers all the major components of a house. Along with observations (whats happening), performance guidelines (how it should be used/installed), corrective measures (whats to be done to correct)- THIS IS THAT REFERENCE "INDUSTRY STANDARD".
Although not all builders follow this, it should be available to you. If your builder doesn't know what you're talking about- you might want to find another builder. When you obtain a copy, read it throughly and you should be able to understand "industry standard" and know what an acceptable repair will consist of.
I consistently see and hear H/O's that don't know the difference between maintenance and a warranty issue ( You don't live in an apartment anymore- theres somethings you have to do yourself). This informative book should clear up any questions as to "Industry Standard".

[banker]

Where would you get a copy of this reference?

[BobKovacs]

Originally Posted by banker

Where would you get a copy of this reference?

You can buy it from the NAHB's bookstore online.

Bear in mind that these standards were created by builders (the NAHB), and therefore are very lax- if you built a house to ever standard of what they allow as "acceptable", most people would never buy from you. Personally, I'd be embarassed to build to such a standard, but when an industry gets the opportunity to police itself on it's quality standards, what do you expect?

Most builders will do much better than the standards, and even KB probably exceeds alot of them, but they've always got something to fall back on now in case of a dispute.

[396]

Take a look at some of these pictures, this is all within "Industry standards" according to KB.

[BobKovacs]

With the exception of the paint (which I don't understand why they wouldn't fix that), I'd say everything else would fall under the NAHB standards. The roof is simply telegraphing the edges of the OSB roof sheathing that swelled when it rained prior to the shingles being put on- a crappy situation caused by not properly gapping the sheets, but not a structural or longevity issue. The concrete crack is part of life- there's two things I can guarantee after every concrete pour- it's going to get hard, and it's going to crack. Unless the slabs are vertically displaced from one another, that crack is nothing to be concerned about if could possibly have been prevented with more control joints, but again, it's not a structural issue.

One tactic you can try, and it sometimes works, is to compare the level of quality in your home to the quality in the model home that you viewed. The model can normally be assumed to indicate the expected level of quality- if the roof sheathing joints show on the model, they're going to show on your house- if they don't I'd say you've got a case to get something done about it. Of course, this may mean taking KB to arbitration or mediation (since you likely signed away your rights to sue in your contract), but a reasonable arbitrator/mediator will often agree with the fact that the model should represent what you're going to be getting.

[banker]

Originally Posted by BobKovacs

With the exception of the paint (which I don't understand why they wouldn't fix that), I'd say everything else would fall under the NAHB standards. The roof is simply telegraphing the edges of the OSB roof sheathing that swelled when it rained prior to the shingles being put on- a crappy situation caused by not properly gapping the sheets, but not a structural or longevity issue. The concrete crack is part of life- there's two things I can guarantee after every concrete pour- it's going to get hard, and it's going to crack. Unless the slabs are vertically displaced from one another, that crack is nothing to be concerned about if could possibly have been prevented with more control joints, but again, it's not a structural issue.

One tactic you can try, and it sometimes works, is to compare the level of quality in your home to the quality in the model home that you viewed. The model can normally be assumed to indicate the expected level of quality- if the roof sheathing joints show on the model, they're going to show on your house- if they don't I'd say you've got a case to get something done about it. Of course, this may mean taking KB to arbitration or mediation (since you likely signed away your rights to sue in your contract), but a reasonable arbitrator/mediator will often agree with the fact that the model should represent what you're going to be getting.

Agreed - those issues don't seem that bad. The paint job is confusing though... It looks like they forgot to finish it or like there should have been molding to cover that up.

About the slab. You are correct - they all will have cracks - it is the nature of concrete - to get hard and crack.

[396]

The issue is not with the paint, it is the bumps on the drywall under the paint! Yes molding goes on the top. The speed bumps in the drywall is the problem. This is AFTER the "fixed" the wall. I never had a problem wit the section of the wall, they created this when trying to repair another sectionof the wall. The wall in question was wavey and had previous repair patches that were showing through as circular patches. They decided to skim the entire wall with "mud". Afterwards, is when the new "speed bumps" appeard. There are new speed bumps in 3 other areas of the wall, that never had them before. They have since come back out and attempted to repair the "speed bumps". Well, I now have the original problem all over again, areas of the wall that you can see have been patched! The only thing that was accomplished is, I now have the same problem, but bigger patches in new parts of the wall!
The warranty VP is now starting to give me the line of "we have made a reasonable effort to repair this problem"....... But they don't seem to understand, just because they tried, does not mean it is better, it is now worse. You can see the patches, you can slide your palm across the wall and feel a million more high spots, but you know that "industry standard" line is getting ready to be played.

The cracks in the cement, yes it would have been nice if control joints were used the the garage, but they weren't. Although the homes that were built after mine on my same treet have them????? The one showing a quarter standing up in the crack, that is what I was originally told by the warranty rep, if you can fit ia quarter in the crack, then they would fix it. Well it took about 4 months then the quarter would fit and then they changed to 1/4 of a gap. I told them they were crazy, 1/4 wide crack before they would do anything? Then it changed again, after I looked into the warranty book, the thick one, they give you two, wonder why? The book states, 3/16 of a gap, so that is something I taught the VP of warranty, which he did not even know his own book.

The roofs, all are the same here, they look terrible when the sun shines just right on them. The one pictured even has a low spot in the front where the roof was sagging, they did fix that, but nothing else.