I must be crazy?...interviewing for a job in Holland/GR (Detroit: equity, cheap home)

[klchicago]

This site is great...but here is my situation I thought I'd share. I welcome your input, advice, observations, etc.

I was born and raised in Kzoo/Portage, graduated from MSU and lived in the Detroit area for a few years right after school. I had the opportunity to move to Chicago about 6 years ago and jumped on it. Detroit was not the place to be at the time...all suburbs, everything looked the same, etc.

I love Chicago, and always will, but as time has gone on, most of my friends have married and moved to the burbs (I'm a swm, 32 yrs old), the thrill of the city (all the people, places, etc) now seems to increasingly become a burden...outrageous gas prices and sales taxes, my 10.5 mile drive to works takes me no less than 45 minutes and at least an hour most days on the way home (longer if the Cubs are playing at home). I'm paying a ridiculous amount in rent for a medium to small size two bedroom apt. ($1150/mo). I could buy a place but I have a hard time buying a $250k same sized "condo" as my apt. where I can constantly hear my neighbors above and below me.

I have always thought someday I'd move back to W. MI but the economy scares me. However, I am right now in the interview process with a "large furniture manufacturer" in Holland. I am looking at homes in the Wyoming area (north of 28th St. b/w 131 and 196)...the number and quality of homes available for under $150k is amazing and the location would put me 15 minutes to d/t GR and 30 minutes from Holland.

I seem to be reading mixed messages about the GR area economy-wise. I know all about the doom and gloom in the Detroit area (family and friends live there) and I know the reality behind it is affecting the state as a whole and will continue to do so for some time. But do you think GR is going to eventually be affected, en masse, or is its going to generally survive the negative affects of state's situation?

Given all of this, would I be out of my mind to move to the GR area for a nice house for half of what I could buy a 2 bedroom "condo" for, with a yard!, less traffic, congestion, prices, etc? I have many friends who are now back in W. MI and they seem to be doing fine....

Oh, and here's the kicker....the job I'm considering....Corporate Recruiter...

KL

[magellan]

Sounds like you'll be working for one of the Big 3 (either Haworth or Herman Miller), which have both been doing extremely well over the last 2 - 3 years.
Haworth is undergoing a huge renovation and expansion of its corporate headquarters, and consolidating operations closer to Holland from other states, and I think I heard it will ultimately create about 1000 jobs. I can see why they might be hiring recruiters.

I don't think you're crazy. In fact, that would be a pretty cool job IMO. Of course, be prepared for the requisite doom-n-gloom responses to your inquiry. Will Grand Rapids/Holland feel the effects of the rest of Michigan's economy? Of course, and we already have been feeling the effects as we have lost 1000's of manufacturing, tool-n-die and automotive supply jobs since 2000, and it has affected the housing/building markets as well. But it's being offset enough by other industry jobs to keep things from free-falling. If you were being offered a job to frame houses, I'd tell you to keep looking.

Hope you get the job!

[suydam]

My opinion (and it's just that):

GR is going to generally fare better than Detroit because it has a more diversified job-base.

There are gobs of automotive jobs, yes....and they're all at risk.
There are also furniture companies, aerospace engineering firms (at least 2 good sized ones) and Amway which is basically consumer products.

Because of the diversity, one group can skid and it doesn't sink the town.

It's not all wine and roses though. GR still has more manufacturing jobs (by % of workforce) than Detroit. That means as US manufacturing continues its inevitable (my opinion) decline, GR is more susceptible to job-loss in the blue-collar workforce than metro-Detroit.

Ironically, the other reason I think GR might fare better in the short-medium term is that wages are much lower here.

This is all my opinion and I'm not an economist or a corporate recruiter. So your mileage may vary.

[allbusiness]

You might want to consider a home in Holland too. 30 minutes from GR, and some really nice homes in the city neighborhoods for $120,000 - $180,000. Many older homes are for sale due to retirees and downzizing of households. Lots of singles and young families are moving in.

[klchicago]

Thanks for the response. I appreciate the input. I feel this would, in the long run, be a good move for me financially (earning equity in a home, etc.) and if the pay is good for this position or at least a lateral to what I'm making now, considering the difference in CoL, it should pay off in the long run for me.

I have considered Holland, and while I'm not a liberal type, I'm by no means a religious type so, from what I've heard, I'm not sure that would be my best option. I would like to be near d/t GR for the feel of the city if I wanted it and any commute under 40 minutes would be great...especially if I'm moving...rather than sitting in traffic as I do now

Also, thanks for the tip on Haworth moving jobs to their HQ! You guessed it...that is where I am interviewing. I wasn't aware of this, and have an hour phone interview tomorrow morning with the hiring manager...fingers crossed! In my experience, companies dont typically hire corporate recruiters unless they see long term growth and need for that resource...otherwise, they would hire contract recruiters to work for 3 to 6 months to fill the need. I think this in itself is a positive sign.

I'll let you know how it goes. But until then does anyone have an opinion on living in Wyoming in the areas I mentioned above?

Thanks,
KL

[Siberia]

Originally Posted by klchicago

In my experience, companies dont typically hire corporate recruiters unless they see long term growth and need for that resource...otherwise, they would hire contract recruiters to work for 3 to 6 months to fill the need. I think this in itself is a positive sign.

It could have changed recently, but Haworth, in the distant past, had become legendary in turnover issues for many departments (University Haworth was one slang name). There was a reason you could find numerous ex-haworth employees working at the other furniture companies, but virtually none, if any, working at haworth came from their competitors. Do your research carefully...HR could easily be hiring due to turnover issues within both HR and the company in general itself.

That said, West Michigan doesn't even feel like part of Michigan IMHO....more like a mini-state seperate from the financial mess with expanding employement instead of shrinking like all the other counties. GR is no exception and has actual labor force growth in 2006 and 2007, according the to the latest Upjohn reports on West Michigan. Working at Haworth to get away from Chicago could be a good idea depending on your current situation.

And about the Holland super duper religious thingy, everyone kept to themselves when I lived there a decade ago...just go to one of the Mega churches (there are hundreds) one Sunday and then if on the slight chance someone asks, tell them "Yeah I go to Blah Blah church". Then you will fit in, and not even be lying...as you don't have to mention it was for only one Sunday...

[magellan]

Originally Posted by Siberia

It could have changed recently, but Haworth, in the distant past, had become legendary in turnover issues for many departments (University Haworth was one slang name). There was a reason you could find numerous ex-haworth employees working at the other furniture companies, but virtually none, if any, working at haworth came from their competitors. Do your research carefully...HR could easily be hiring due to turnover issues within both HR and the company in general itself.

That said, West Michigan doesn't even feel like part of Michigan IMHO....more like a mini-state seperate from the financial mess with expanding employement instead of shrinking like all the other counties. GR is no exception and has actual labor force growth in 2006 and 2007, according the to the latest Upjohn reports on West Michigan. Working at Haworth to get away from Chicago could be a good idea depending on your current situation.

And about the Holland super duper religious thingy, everyone kept to themselves when I lived there a decade ago...just go to one of the Mega churches (there are hundreds) one Sunday and then if on the slight chance someone asks, tell them "Yeah I go to Blah Blah church". Then you will fit in, and not even be lying...as you don't have to mention it was for only one Sunday...

I think a lot of Haworth's projected growth is due to consolidating a lot of operations from around the country back to Holland, in addition to the new corporate HQs. About 6 years ago Haworth was one of my accounts at a past employer and they were bursting at the seams, and had a bunch of office people working across the street from the HQs building (a warehouse that was converted to office space, yuck!). But yes, I think a lot of people jump around from Haworth to Herman Miller and back.

I found this report online klchicago that talks about their HQ expansion and their "Sustainability" efforts. Might give you some ammunition for your interview:

http://www.haworth.com/haworth/asset...ity_Report.pdf

As far as your thinking about living in Holland vs. closer to Grand Rapids, I think I would tend to agree. Downtown Grand Rapids has a big scene for young 20 and 30 somethings, plus there are a lot of business organizations that you can join to meet people, like Grand Rapids Young Professionals and others. I'm not sure how big the 30 something scene is in Holland (?) It seems to be either the Hope College crowd, or families, nothing much in between.

I have friends who live in condos in downtown Grand Rapids, and you could probably get to Haworth in less than 30 minutes from there (since it's right off of I-196 at M-40). Pricing is decent too, with some loft-style condos starting in the low 100's right downtown. Shoot me a PM if you need some info.

See how your interview goes first though.

[em1970]

I know what you mean- I sometimes sit here at my corporate job and think about a turn of the century home in GR or Kalamazoo while sorting vegetables in the produce isle. Chicago is OUTRAGEOUSLY priced and the suburbs- who wants to drive 40, 50 even 60 miles (I had a friend with a postal job who moved back to DeKalb for a cheap home) to a job every day. I can't wait to get out of here- I am online at least 15 minutes a day seeking jobs, inspiration and cheering the crowd running out of Chicago on! Taking a lower paying job somewhere else and being able to buy a 3Bd home for under 100k would be FINE with me!

[magellan]

Originally Posted by em1970

I know what you mean- I sometimes sit here at my corporate job and think about a turn of the century home in GR or Kalamazoo while sorting vegetables in the produce isle. Chicago is OUTRAGEOUSLY priced and the suburbs- who wants to drive 40, 50 even 60 miles (I had a friend with a postal job who moved back to DeKalb for a cheap home) to a job every day. I can't wait to get out of here- I am online at least 15 minutes a day seeking jobs, inspiration and cheering the crowd running out of Chicago on! Taking a lower paying job somewhere else and being able to buy a 3Bd home for under 100k would be FINE with me!

Haha! I have a cousin who is single and lives in D.C. and works a menial job in city government (even though he has his Masters degree), and he keeps mentioning to me he could sell his DINKY townhouse for $725K, walk away with about 1/2 that, and buy a beautiful old home with cash in Grand Rapids or East Lansing (fix it up on weekends), work at Wal-Mart and he'd probably be happier (and closer to family). The times he visits here he can't believe what you can get for the price, and how CHEAP taxes are.

[allbusiness]

You know, I have to say that I've lived in Holland all my life and no one has ever asked me about my church affiliation. That's a hold-over steroetype from the 1950's I think. The CRC and RCA are two very large denominations, but there are many Catholics, Jews and others mixed in these days, including several strong Asian-based religions.

Someone may invite you to church as a neighborly gesture but the days of frowning upon someone who doesn't go to church and far behind us.

I get real tired of this "Holland is a stuck-up, religious, intolerant community" crap from people who either never tried to fit in, stayed a year and moved on or had one bad experience with one intolerant person.

Every town you can choose is going to have the same challenges, the same problems and the same opportunities.