New $140 Million theater/mixed use project planned for downtown GR (Grand Rapids: lease, crime)

[magellan]

Biggest project downtown since the arena opened, in my opinion. I hope the theater serves beer.

GRAND RAPIDS — 616 Development LLC and Loeks Theaters Inc. today detailed plans for a multi-phase, $140 million mixed-use development in the Arena South District of downtown Grand Rapids.

The initial $100 million phase will include the Grand Rapids-based Celebration Cinema constructing a nine-screen movie theater concept dubbed “Studio C.” The proposed development also includes 38,000 square feet of retail, 187 residential units, an outdoor public plaza and a 900-space parking deck, or about 300 more spots than currently exist at the site.

- See more at: UPDATED: 616 Development, Loeks Theaters plan $140 million cinema, mixed-use project in downtown Grand Rapids

[mjlo]

I get stuck in meetings all day and hop on to find this news. I knew they were aiming big but this is huge! Is this a bigger price tag than when RDV built out the hill? Also 616 is starting to get really ambitious. Everything they have proposed has come to fruition so that bodes well. With the several dozen other big projects in motion downtown I question whether the market has been saturated and if they can fully secure financing on this scale. I need to read the article to see if there's a planned start date. This would almost complete the transition of the Arena District/Heartside into one of the premier urban neighborhoods in the state. There be few infill spots left.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by mjlo

I get stuck in meetings all day and hop on to find this news. I knew they were aiming big but this is huge! Is this a bigger price tag than when RDV built out the hill? Also 616 is starting to get really ambitious. Everything they have proposed has come to fruition so that bodes well. With the several dozen other big projects in motion downtown I question whether the market has been saturated and if they can fully secure financing on this scale. I need to read the article to see if there's a planned start date. This would almost complete the transition of the Arena District/Heartside into one of the premier urban neighborhoods in the state. There be few infill spots left.

Article says they hope to break ground on the $100 Million phase 1 in early 2017. The tower would be in phase 2.

[Lockdev]

I hope this works out for GR. I really am afraid it is growing too big, too fast.

We had something similar happen in Hampton, VA. There was a very large "town center" movement going on back in the mid-2000s during the housing boom and Hampton followed suit.

Hampton was growing insanely fast and investors and the city threw a ton of money(more than $200 million) at the project.

The growth stopped as fast as it came, and the place toppled.

Now the "town center" is a ghost town. One of the main anchor stores(Macy's), just closed down a couple months back.

[mjlo]

Originally Posted by Lockdev

I hope this works out for GR. I really am afraid it is growing too big, too fast.

We had something similar happen in Hampton, VA. There was a very large "town center" movement going on back in the mid-2000s during the housing boom and Hampton followed suit.

Hampton was growing insanely fast and investors and the city threw a ton of money(more than $200 million) at the project.

The growth stopped as fast as it came, and the place toppled.

Now the "town center" is a ghost town. One of the main anchor stores(Macy's), just closed down a couple months back.

I could be wrong but that sounds more like an urban mall concept in a city that was trying to create a better core. This is going in the already sought after entertainment district in a city with a more established core. This is not dependent on retail. That's not to say it isn't ambitious and couldn't fail. Just not an apples to apples concern.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by Lockdev

I hope this works out for GR. I really am afraid it is growing too big, too fast.

We had something similar happen in Hampton, VA. There was a very large "town center" movement going on back in the mid-2000s during the housing boom and Hampton followed suit.

Hampton was growing insanely fast and investors and the city threw a ton of money(more than $200 million) at the project.

The growth stopped as fast as it came, and the place toppled.

Now the "town center" is a ghost town. One of the main anchor stores(Macy's), just closed down a couple months back.

"It's better to try and to fail, then to not try at all."

It's only about 45,000ish square feet of retail, not a huge amount. That's one smallish strip mall on 28th Street or Alpine.

My fear is that the theater will fall into the same problems that the Kalamazoo downtown Rave theater did: fights and crime. They had to close that theater and then reopen it under new ownership as the Alamo Drafthouse, which shows more indie films and serves beer and dinner. Police calls have dropped to basically zero.

[westernwilly]

Originally Posted by magellan

"It's better to try and to fail, then to not try at all."

It's only about 45,000ish square feet of retail, not a huge amount. That's one smallish strip mall on 28th Street or Alpine.

My fear is that the theater will fall into the same problems that the Kalamazoo downtown Rave theater did: fights and crime. They had to close that theater and then reopen it under new ownership as the Alamo Drafthouse, which shows more indie films and serves beer and dinner. Police calls have dropped to basically zero.

I have no idea of where you got the "fights and crime" from with the Rave in Kalamazoo.....never happened. From what I have been told, the management at the Rave did not like the direction of the lease. In other words, it was going up.

Anyway, the downtown theater has been a huge success in Kalamazoo and i am sure that it will be huge plus in GR too. This is great news for Grand Rapids and it is going to put another feather in the cap of a great downtown!

[magellan]

Originally Posted by westernwilly

I have no idea of where you got the "fights and crime" from with the Rave in Kalamazoo.....never happened. From what I have been told, the management at the Rave did not like the direction of the lease. In other words, it was going up.

Anyway, the downtown theater has been a huge success in Kalamazoo and i am sure that it will be huge plus in GR too. This is great news for Grand Rapids and it is going to put another feather in the cap of a great downtown!

You can't say it "never" happened, I specifically remember articles about several incidents there. It was years ago so I don't remember the details, but I remember thinking that it wasn't good for that theater (which I thought was great that they took a chance on a downtown location).

[westernwilly]

Originally Posted by magellan

You can't say it "never" happened, I specifically remember articles about several incidents there. It was years ago so I don't remember the details, but I remember thinking that it wasn't good for that theater (which I thought was great that they took a chance on a downtown location).

There was one where they had to remove teens that were sneaking in to the movie about Notorious BIG. They got out of control when they were caught. Of course this was nothing special with this movie as theaters around the country were have troubles with teens causing troubles with that movie. It was the gansta, hip hop anthem and it attracted a bad element. There is a reason that they have never made another movie like it.

I have been going to the Rave/ Alamo Draft house monthly on average since it opened. My kids are teens now and they have been going there since they were very young. I have never had any problems or felt unconformable. In fact, it is tamer, quieter and feels safer both inside the theater and the blocks around the Alamo than it does at Celebration Cinema in Portage.

Celebration is plagued loud teenagers. Last summer picked my daughter up from a movie there but I was trapped in the parking lot for 20 mins. as a group of 10 to 15 boys fought each other. There was a large crowd watching and that crowd was blocking us in. 20 mins later the police came and we could leave. This could and never does happen in downtown Kalamazoo as there are a dozens of cops downtown. In fact, there is a police station next door to the Alamo.

In short, anything about fights and crime that you have heard about the Alamo are most likely lies spread by people that never go downtown and still think that it is like it was in the 80s and 90s.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by westernwilly

There was one where they had to remove teens that were sneaking in to the movie about Notorious BIG. They got out of control when they were caught. Of course this was nothing special with this movie as theaters around the country were have troubles with teens causing troubles with that movie. It was the gansta, hip hop anthem and it attracted a bad element. There is a reason that they have never made another movie like it.

I have been going to the Rave/ Alamo Draft house monthly on average since it opened. My kids are teens now and they have been going there since they were very young. I have never had any problems or felt unconformable. In fact, it is tamer, quieter and feels safer both inside the theater and the blocks around the Alamo than it does at Celebration Cinema in Portage.

Celebration is plagued loud teenagers. Last summer picked my daughter up from a movie there but I was trapped in the parking lot for 20 mins. as a group of 10 to 15 boys fought each other. There was a large crowd watching and that crowd was blocking us in. 20 mins later the police came and we could leave. This could and never does happen in downtown Kalamazoo as there are a dozens of cops downtown. In fact, there is a police station next door to the Alamo.

In short, anything about fights and crime that you have heard about the Alamo are most likely lies spread by people that never go downtown and still think that it is like it was in the 80s and 90s.

Or the media blowing things out of proportion.

Fair enough. I hope this theater in GR gets going fairly soon. Exciting project.