Are you happy to live in Grand Rapids? (weather, year)

[summerrose]

Originally Posted by scottmi

8) Class differences in GR. I have spotted a distinct split in classes in GR, much like I did in Chicago (although the split in Chicago was more race-based than money-based...you couldn't always tell who was rich in Chicago). In GR people seem to "let you know" if they are living the good life, as if they have something to be oh-so-proud-of. It's irritating to say the least and will no doubt be an issue if you ever have to deal with these people on issues of money (the people who run/own GR have money...and will unlikely ever do much to help the little guy who is the true backbone of any city). I don't know...I just feel like there's a difference between groups of people.

Thanks for this comment. I have lived a few places since living in GR but nowhere else have I observed the practice of snooty upper class attitude as strongly as in Grand Rapids. I still remember the condescending tone of "upper crust" society people drawling "Oh we live in East Grand Raaapids" just to impress the peasants (never mind they were in hock to the bank up to their elegant eyebrows). I'm thanking you because I thought it was just me!

PS: It does help, or at least it did in the old days, to be Dutch or have a good Dutch name in the family; you are assumed to be "in the club" or at least familiar with the conventions. Also there is, or used to be, a large Polish contingent, mostly on the northwest side -- honest, hardworking family loving types -- so it didn't hurt to be Polish, either.

[windfarmer]

Originally Posted by summerrose

Thanks for this comment. I have lived a few places since living in GR but nowhere else have I observed the practice of snooty upper class attitude as strongly as in Grand Rapids. I still remember the condescending tone of "upper crust" society people drawling "Oh we live in East Grand Raaapids" just to impress the peasants (never mind they were in hock to the bank up to their elegant eyebrows). I'm thanking you because I thought it was just me!

PS: It does help, or at least it did in the old days, to be Dutch or have a good Dutch name in the family; you are assumed to be "in the club" or at least familiar with the conventions. Also there is, or used to be, a large Polish contingent, mostly on the northwest side -- honest, hardworking family loving types -- so it didn't hurt to be Polish, either.

Grand Rapids is not a big city by any stretch of the imagination. What it is in fact, is a good, hardworking city with much to offer and what looks like a very bright future. In comparison to the rest of the world, GR is but a tiny dot. Any bourgeoisie pomposity by way of socio-economic superiority, is irrelevant in the global scope. The rest of the world has never heard of East Grand Rapids – as ritzy as it is indeed.

When I lived in east Dearborn, I realized quickly that it would have helped me if I were instead from Lebanon with a last name Bazzy, Beydoun, Saad or Sobh. Those were the "big wigs" who owned gas stations and restaurants. I knew other Arabs there who hailed from Iraq and Yemen, and constantly felt inferior to the Lebanese who were much more fair complected in skin tone and much fatter in the pocketbook. But outside of Dearborn, no one else has heard of Dearborn... save those who know about the awesomeness of Henry Ford.

When I lived in Hawaii, it would not particularly have helped if I were Haole (semi-derogatory term for foreigner/mainly a white person).

In Malaysia, I was not a "bumi-putra" or "son of the country".

I personally don't feel left out as a non-Dutch. But I also don't care. I've lived all over the world and still I believe Grand Rapids to be a little slice of paradise. It's exactly what I'm looking for out of life. To some that may sound odd, but living here makes me very content with life in general.

[windfarmer]

I just want to add that I believe EGR is a fine city, and those who live there are lucky indeed. Those who don't live there: rather than feeling bitter, try working harder so you can live there too should you so desire. EGR residents should indeed feel fortunate to reside in a city surrounding such a pleasant lake.

[GMonkey]

I grew up in Ada/Cascade. Let me tell you that those new-money snobs are way, way worse than those in EGR. Most EGR families are pretty down to earth. The kids at Forest Hills Central are pure evil. I know evil. I work in Philadelphia!

Grand Rapids is a good place to raise a family, but boy, those kids end up overly sheltered if you aren't careful to expose them to some culture other than W. Michigan.

I miss the friendliness of the area, but certainly not the oddly simultaneously cheap yet status conscious attitudes. A girl from Grand Rapids came into my salon in Philly the other day and tipped $3 on a $45 haircut...which she was obviously very happy with. I had to explain to the disappointed stylist that for a typical person raised in GR, that was an awesome tip.

[windfarmer]

Originally Posted by GMonkey

I grew up in Ada/Cascade. Let me tell you that those new-money snobs are way, way worse than those in EGR. Most EGR families are pretty down to earth. The kids at Forest Hills Central are pure evil. I know evil. I work in Philadelphia!

Grand Rapids is a good place to raise a family, but boy, those kids end up overly sheltered if you aren't careful to expose them to some culture other than W. Michigan.

I miss the friendliness of the area, but certainly not the oddly simultaneously cheap yet status conscious attitudes. A girl from Grand Rapids came into my salon in Philly the other day and tipped $3 on a $45 haircut...which she was obviously very happy with. I had to explain to the disappointed stylist that for a typical person raised in GR, that was an awesome tip.

Gmonkey, do you think they are sheltered due to religious reasons? Is it because their families are overly-conservative in their way of life?

I do agree, there is a lot of friendliness here. I haven't come across any snobbishness yet, however I certainly believe that is a part of any place a person lives. Someone who lives in Sherwood Forest in Detroit might feel superior to someone who lives in a regular bungalow on the east side.

I can see how the cheapness can impede others' lives, especially when it comes to small tips like that. Image-conscious teens are everywhere.. When I moved to Dearborn long time ago, I was only 18. The way I dressed was very different to a lot of the other kids. They wore expensive clothing while i didn't care about price nor brand. They all drove their parent's Range's and Mercedes.. I drove an old 92 Accord. I never once felt inferior.. In fact I pride myself on knowing how to properly budget my expenses in a practical non-wasteful manner. It is possible that kids who are fed everything with a silver spoon aren't completely cognizant of what it means to be a fiscally responsible unless they have valuable business experience perhaps. It doesn't hurt to be well-off, but it is wiser to not let arrogance takeover. A person's wealth can be lost anytime at a drop of a hat. There are plenty of Riches to Rags tales abound. Even now where a great many people have made poor financial choices and are losing their homes (and the equity with it).

When I was younger, my parents owned a very expensive home in Hawaii and La Jolla (CA), but I never felt superior to anyone. But I also was never materialistic and probably never will be. I only like a strong sense of community spirit where I live. Not much more. People of all economic backgrounds have problems they face. It's not just the poor who have tough choices or no choices at all, however with increased resources, one certainly does have it easier... and there's nothing wrong with striving for material success.. as long as the bigger picture is constantly kept in focus: how can I help my community to grow and prosper.

[GMonkey]

Originally Posted by windfarmer

Gmonkey, do you think they are sheltered due to religious reasons? Is it because their families are overly-conservative in their way of life?

I do agree, there is a lot of friendliness here. I haven't come across any snobbishness yet, however I certainly believe that is a part of any place a person lives. Someone who lives in Sherwood Forest in Detroit might feel superior to someone who lives in a regular bungalow on the east side.

I can see how the cheapness can impede others' lives, especially when it comes to small tips like that. Image-conscious teens are everywhere.. When I moved to Dearborn long time ago, I was only 18. The way I dressed was very different to a lot of the other kids. They wore expensive clothing while i didn't care about price nor brand. They all drove their parent's Range's and Mercedes.. I drove an old 92 Accord. I never once felt inferior.. In fact I pride myself on knowing how to properly budget my expenses in a practical non-wasteful manner. It is possible that kids who are fed everything with a silver spoon aren't completely cognizant of what it means to be a fiscally responsible unless they have valuable business experience perhaps. It doesn't hurt to be well-off, but it is wiser to not let arrogance takeover. A person's wealth can be lost anytime at a drop of a hat. There are plenty of Riches to Rags tales abound. Even now where a great many people have made poor financial choices and are losing their homes (and the equity with it).

When I was younger, my parents owned a very expensive home in Hawaii and La Jolla (CA), but I never felt superior to anyone. But I also was never materialistic and probably never will be. I only like a strong sense of community spirit where I live. Not much more. People of all economic backgrounds have problems they face. It's not just the poor who have tough choices or no choices at all, however with increased resources, one certainly does have it easier... and there's nothing wrong with striving for material success.. as long as the bigger picture is constantly kept in focus: how can I help my community to grow and prosper.

I think that religion and conservatism play a large role in the overly sheltered kids in GR. I also think that a lot of parents think that cities are dangerous and that suburbs are magical fairylands where everyone is Christian and spouses never cheat. Neighbors gossip because someone (horrors) mowed their lawn on Sunday, or you caught them at D&W buying beer.

I was a single mom when my daughter was born. A company I worked for in Grand Rapids told me that they really didn't want to hire someone who would have a child out of wedlock, but that they forgave me and wanted to help me turn my life around. Can you believe it?

I've also lived in the Detroit area (Dearborn Hts as a kid) and Royal Oak as an adult. There was definitely a lot of materialism in Royal Oak, but it was nothing like Ada/Cascade.

[dutchinnd]

"I think that religion and conservatism play a large role in the overly sheltered kids in GR. I also think that a lot of parents think that cities are dangerous and that suburbs are magical fairylands where everyone is Christian and spouses never cheat. Neighbors gossip because someone (horrors) mowed their lawn on Sunday, or you caught them at D&W buying beer."

One line of scripture that some of the sterner Dutch Calvinist folks take very strongly to heart is "be in the world but not of the world." In the GR burbs, it is possible--and certainly by some desired--to have all areas of life be church connected. You can go to schools w/ people who belong to the same denomination, work for an employer of the same belief, play in a church-based recreational softball league, go to a church-based college, etc. Some people do manage to live their lives w/ having very little contact w/ someone who isn't one of "our people."
It can be an incredibly secure and nuturing environment in which to grow up. And some people never want to think about life beyond those secure parameters.

Yeah, if they leave the secure confines they are in for quite a shock.

But on the other hand, there are others from the very same background who are much more activist and engaged w/ the whole community trying to improve things for all, not just their own kind.

[GMonkey]

Originally Posted by dutchinnd

But on the other hand, there are others from the very same background who are much more activist and engaged w/ the whole community trying to improve things for all, not just their own kind.

Yes, I definitely have to give them that! I was very impressed when I heard about the many Calvin College students who refused to support the Iraq war and the Bush Administration.

[windfarmer]

Originally Posted by GMonkey

I think that religion and conservatism play a large role in the overly sheltered kids in GR. I also think that a lot of parents think that cities are dangerous and that suburbs are magical fairylands where everyone is Christian and spouses never cheat. Neighbors gossip because someone (horrors) mowed their lawn on Sunday, or you caught them at D&W buying beer.

I was a single mom when my daughter was born. A company I worked for in Grand Rapids told me that they really didn't want to hire someone who would have a child out of wedlock, but that they forgave me and wanted to help me turn my life around. Can you believe it?

I've also lived in the Detroit area (Dearborn Hts as a kid) and Royal Oak as an adult. There was definitely a lot of materialism in Royal Oak, but it was nothing like Ada/Cascade.

I respect them for their beliefs and traditions, and hope to never offend them for any such actions and behavior they might exhibit. However I see more harm in sheltering them from the world than anything.. eventually they will have to have some kind of interaction with the "outer world." At this point I cannot imagine how they could quite possibly function in the same manner as they do when sheltered in their CRC bubble. One of the most eye-opening things to ever do, is travel. People who live 50 years in the same community without stepping foot in so much as the next county, are not doing themselves a favor. You can live in one place and plant roots, but it is in your own best interest to travel the country and the world (but at least the country) and see different states, people, socio-economic levels, etc.. One will become more open-minded, aware, and hopefully care more for their community at home and at large.

I recently worked at a great company in San Diego, and realized quickly that if you talk political crap at work or try to convince someone to join your religion, you would get a severe reprimand and a swift kick in your rear right out the front door.. let alone telling someone that they weren't the right fit for your company because they had a child with no baby-daddy around. At that point it's not about "liberal" or "conservative".. its about employees right to privacy. Just because you work for a company doesn't give them the right to prod your personal life.. Unless of course you're an alcoholic who comes to work drunk or late because you partied all night.. or if you work in finance and screw up major accounts and lose big money for the firm due to your ineptness from drinking or drugs.. But a child???! Thats entirely degrading and not worthy of being MY employer. Employees should not be ungrateful, arrogant workers, but they should never let their boss unnecessarily put them down.

I really like the dutch conservatives around here. In fact I think they are very polite people who care about their community and I don't dare put down their beliefs, but I do think that no company regardless of faith should force their religious views upon others.. A company is there to produce and provide services.. not to embarass an employee and humiliate them in such a blatant fashion. This is not the victorian era. Companies are not the moral police.

Furthermore, I see plenty of CRC-type "housewives" in UN-churchlike attire. Not saying they aren't beautiful, just that they do not fit the profile of that which they might claim to represent.

I personally like some suburbs, but I do not like "sprawlingness". I like suburbs that are quaint, charming and efficient. I do NOT like cookie-cutter "modern" suburbs that waste, and with neighbors that hate each other.. always peering over to see who drives what, whose grass is greener, who has a sexier wife.. etc.

Perhaps I am not in the know as you or others on here are, but I don't find EGR to follow the latter of the two.. It appears to be quite stable in community-activity and support, and is most certainly NOT a cookie-cutter suburb. Not to mention very beautiful. :-)

[GMonkey]

EGR is atypical of many suburbs. It has a picture-perfect look to it, but the families are much more civic-minded. People walk everywhere and there are actually gay families.

I'm a fan of suburbs, myself, but I prefer "inner-ring" burbs close to the city, or close to work. I get flack on the Philadelphia forums for living in the burbs. They say that I'm contributing to car-culture and I want my child to be a clone of other kids, blah blah blah. The fact is that we moved to the burbs because my husband actually works in the suburbs. It is a 5 minute commute for him!