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Old 08-31-2018, 07:29 AM
 
Location: here
24,839 posts, read 30,070,624 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
The fact that KA is dismissing her daughter’s views as radicalized is likely a part of the problem. Anytime you dismiss someone’s feelings as illogical, you are belittling them. Not something you should do to those you claim to care about.
This

Quote:
Originally Posted by jencam View Post
There is nothing wrong with expecting that, no, but how does one enforce it? What can OP do about? Stop speaking to the daughter until she does it? Daughter doesn't want to talk to her, that won't work. Stop doing things for her? Daughter doesn't want anything from her. Send her to jail? It isn't a crime. Ground her? She is an adult. Condemn her verbally? That has been done. Express disapproval? That has been done. Express how much the grandmother misses her? That has been done. Express how sick the Mom is and might die soon? That has been done.

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.



I agree KA never said the daughter was a terrorist. It was another poster that used the term 'radicalized' which bring 'terrorist' to mind.



Yeah, she did. Many times. So many times.
KA said she was radicalized. I likened that word to one you would use to describe a terrorist, not an estranged family member.

 
Old 08-31-2018, 07:41 AM
 
3,900 posts, read 2,742,272 times
Reputation: 7177
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post

I probably should go over to their house. I did actually do this one time, with my parents (just a few weeks before my dad died), and my daughter was clearly angry but she did let us see the kids - but this was before the total cut off, it was when she was just being very standoffish but was just refusing to talk with me about why she was so angry. She didn't make a scene in front of the kids, but she did make things uncomfortable and she made it very clear that she hadn't expected us and wanted us to leave quickly. We stayed for about an hour, during which time she disappeared often back into her room - I am sure she was texting someone (probably her husband) but there was no scene other than awkwardness and her being basically silent and visibly angry.

The thing is, this was before the total ostracizing. Since then, she did bring the kids over to my mom's house one time (over a year ago) when she came over to get a trailer full of stuff my mom and I were giving her. Her kids were clearly uncomfortable and actually acting very reserved and literally scared. It was heartbreaking. It was also clear that she had been talking to them about stuff, because they had never been standoffish and shy and nervous around us before. I mean, other than the youngest, these aren't babies.

I haven't gone over there but I've been very tempted to do so. I freely admit - it would make me very nervous to do it. But I may just do it anyway. I have been thinking about it. Hmmm.
Kathryn, our kids live all over and one thing we do frequently is get a hotel room and have the grandkids spend the weekend with us. We usually get one with a pool. We'll throw in some shopping and other fun activities. Our kids get a break and usually have their own date night.

Is that something you could start? That way you get to see the grandkids but don't have to interact with your daughter. She may want some free time.
 
Old 08-31-2018, 07:56 AM
 
3,412 posts, read 3,219,674 times
Reputation: 3853
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaraG View Post
Kathryn, our kids live all over and one thing we do frequently is get a hotel room and have the grandkids spend the weekend with us. We usually get one with a pool. We'll throw in some shopping and other fun activities. Our kids get a break and usually have their own date night.

Is that something you could start? That way you get to see the grandkids but don't have to interact with your daughter. She may want some free time.
If KA and her daughter had a relationship this would be a great idea.

The OP's daughter has cut her out of her life and because her kids are minors them too. Stop encouraging her to try to see the kids. KA's daughter has made it perfectly clear she doesn't want her mother in her life and hasn't for a year. Unless this is a mental health issue and she needs to make sure the kids are ok she should call CPS otherwise no. Though it doesn't sound like it's that because it's been a year.

Pushing the daughter's boundaries will not get KA what she wants. Quite the opposite actually.
 
Old 08-31-2018, 08:05 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
44,656 posts, read 36,118,702 times
Reputation: 63205
Quote:
Originally Posted by ennaf View Post
I'd strongly recommend the OP talk to a professional counselor for advice or guidance before going to the daughter's house unannounced. I'd do this for the sake of the grandchildren and what is in their best interests.
Thank you and I actually have spoken with a professional counselor about this exact scenario. This was after the last time I went over there unannounced. The counselor's recommendation was NOT to go back over there and to continue writing letters to the grandkids, basically to continue doing what I've been doing, but this was over a year ago. I got the feeling that the counselor didn't expect my daughter's freeze out to go on forever. Maybe this passage of time makes a difference, I don't know. Maybe I need to go back for a few counseling sessions.

But frankly, I am having a hard time wrapping my head around going over there unannounced. For starters, I emailed my daughter a few months ago and she did receive the email from what I can tell - ONE line "I love you and your family." No response. I texted her in a friendly manner, along with other family members, just the other day, giving an update on my mom and her mailing address - no response. The text did go through.

I freely admit that the idea of going over there makes me very nervous.

I want to point something out. I have gone to professional counseling and I have also met with our pastor, who knows our family well, regarding this situation. The counselor also met with my husband, with me and without me. Both the counselor and our pastor have given me the advice that I'm following. They also both told me that based on their assessment of the situation, they think that while I am not a particularly sensitive person, and while I can be pretty bossy - two areas I know I struggle with - my feelings and my application to the situation are both healthy and appropriate. Not only these two, but also my husband, my small circle of very good friends (two to be exact - I don't go around talking about this stuff to more casual friends), my brothers, my mother (my dad before he passed away), and my other kids ALL understand my heartbreak over this, they believe it's understandable that I am so concerned and upset, and their advice is to basically let her go but insist on basic standards of polite behavior if she chooses to come back into my life.

These people know me, they know my family and they know my daughter. They know the dynamics.

I was just hoping to get some differing perspectives and possibly some ideas from this forum. I don't think I will do anything other than continuing to write the kids without getting some professional insight.
 
Old 08-31-2018, 08:09 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
44,656 posts, read 36,118,702 times
Reputation: 63205
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaraG View Post
Kathryn, our kids live all over and one thing we do frequently is get a hotel room and have the grandkids spend the weekend with us. We usually get one with a pool. We'll throw in some shopping and other fun activities. Our kids get a break and usually have their own date night.

Is that something you could start? That way you get to see the grandkids but don't have to interact with your daughter. She may want some free time.
I would love this, but my daughter has completely cut off contact with me.

Actually before she did this, my husband and I OFTEN had weekends with the grandkids, and if both our husbands were out of town (pretty often) my daughter and I would get together with all the kids, either at her house or mine. We only live one hour apart, so no need for a hotel.

Those are some of my best memories. I hope the grandkids fondly remember those times together too.
 
Old 08-31-2018, 08:12 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
44,656 posts, read 36,118,702 times
Reputation: 63205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riley09swb View Post
If KA and her daughter had a relationship this would be a great idea.

The OP's daughter has cut her out of her life and because her kids are minors them too. Stop encouraging her to try to see the kids. KA's daughter has made it perfectly clear she doesn't want her mother in her life and hasn't for a year. Unless this is a mental health issue and she needs to make sure the kids are ok she should call CPS otherwise no. Though it doesn't sound like it's that because it's been a year.

Pushing the daughter's boundaries will not get KA what she wants. Quite the opposite actually.
I agree that it's a very tricky point to find. I feel awkward even sending her the very occasional (as in maybe two over a year and a half) email. I feel awkward sending the cards and letters to the kids. I felt awkward sending her the text with my mom's mailing address and health update the other day. I get absolutely zero response so it feels pretty strange and sad to me. Pointless and hopeless actually, but I still do it just to keep the door open.
 
Old 08-31-2018, 08:19 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
44,656 posts, read 36,118,702 times
Reputation: 63205
And yes, I freely admit that I am angry with my daughter. I am angry that she has cut "the white people" in the family out of her life. I am angry that she is keeping the grandkids and me (and the other "white people" and anyone who doesn't share her animosity toward them) apart. I am angry that she has tried HARD to discredit me with other family members. I am angry that she never responds to any attempt at contact, or any checks my mom has sent. I am angry that she is not allowing her kids to grow up with the love and affection of grandparents and cousins and aunts and uncles. We are not of the devil, we are not weirdos, we are not destructive or racist or rude or abusive in any way from what I can tell.

I know I have vented a lot about this anger toward my daughter, but she is the one who has decided to cut off all contact and sever the relationship between her kids and, not only me, but other family members as well. So yes, I'm very hurt, very angry, very distressed by this. I LOVE THOSE KIDS and I want to have a relationship with them! It would be nice to resume a relationship with my daughter as well, but I would take any level of interaction with the kids at this point. Interaction - not just a one way street.
 
Old 08-31-2018, 08:50 AM
 
4,721 posts, read 4,016,316 times
Reputation: 9859
Is your daughter also not speaking to her siblings?
 
Old 08-31-2018, 08:55 AM
 
12,636 posts, read 10,487,316 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
Hey. I have NOT equated her experiences as a woman of color as "being radicalized." I have equated her new absolute dismissal and even hatred of white people as being radicalized. I have equated this complete change, from someone who was in the military and pretty uninterested in politics but who leaned toward conservative to someone who is consumed with race and spewing divisive racial diatribe and focusing ONLY on racial sorts of issues, to becoming radical in her overall outlook on life. This has been a radical change. This does not mean I am equating her experiences as a woman of color as being radicalized. Big difference in fact. Huge difference.

I get that my daughter feels I do not support her - I don't support racism and judging people by the color of their skin. I don't support totally cutting off a loving grandmother/great grandmother. I don't support being unbelievably rude to other people. Sorry - I will never support that. If that means I'm "focused on being right" then gosh, I just don't know what else to do.

As for "understanding how she feels" I am telling you, I have spent hours at a time with her discussing her feelings. I HAVE listened to her - when she was talking to me. I have supported her emotionally as well as financially - for instance, my husband and I threw ourselves totally into supporting her and her family's desire to get out of the military and return to civilian life - I've detailed how much effort I put into all that, and during a very hard time in my life as our elderly parents were actively dying one right after the other.

I don't understand your snark "How's being right working out for you? For your grandkids?" Oh my gosh. Look here, I AM being treated terribly by my daughter, who is also keeping the grandkids away from me, and from my mother who has probably just weeks left on this earth. For months during her gradual sort of melt down, as she became more and more angry and distant, I accommodated her moods, even her rude behavior - against the advice of my husband and other family members who were appalled by her behavior. I made excuses for it, I tried talking with her and reaching out and all that - to no avail. It was like nothing I did meant anything positive and she became more and more critical of me, even right to my face, to the point that I felt I couldn't say anything without somehow offending her - heck, even offering her a stupid mixer offended her!
If this isn't radical, idk what is. Geez, all this back and forth on my choice of word ("radicalized"). Others used "radical" way before I added "ized" to it and now suddenly we have the words "terrorism" and "terrorist" mentioned. Context people.

Having an alleged strong dislike/hatred towards white people is RADICAL. Her daughter has politically and socially EXTREME views. She HAS radicalized, assuming what KA says about her is true. Something has made her this way. Which is why I asked KA if she knows what or who has made her this way, or if anyone her daughter knows may know. Either way, her daughter is free have those beliefs, and KA is free to be hurt over those beliefs.

*this is not a political post I just had to comment on the apparent debate/issue over my using "radicalized" when "radical" has been used since late July (yes I did a search because I thought that I couldn't possibly be the first one to use such a word to describe what's being alleged here)
 
Old 08-31-2018, 09:10 AM
 
16,587 posts, read 14,063,191 times
Reputation: 20556
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
Hey. I have NOT equated her experiences as a woman of color as "being radicalized." I have equated her new absolute dismissal and even hatred of white people as being radicalized. I have equated this complete change, from someone who was in the military and pretty uninterested in politics but who leaned toward conservative to someone who is consumed with race and spewing divisive racial diatribe and focusing ONLY on racial sorts of issues, to becoming radical in her overall outlook on life. This has been a radical change. This does not mean I am equating her experiences as a woman of color as being radicalized. Big difference in fact. Huge difference.
No there is not a huge difference. She has different political views than you. I guarantee you she does not thing she is spewing anything let alone "divisive racial diatribe". Those are your opinions of her views, and yet again you are using wildly dismissive language. If anything the way you speak of her views is diatribe. Of course she can't dialogue with you, look at the sort of disdainful language you use to categorize her views!

I guarantee I am much more liberal than anyone you know, yet I have conservative friends and we would never speak of each others views with the contempt you do of your daughters.

Quote:
I get that my daughter feels I do not support her - I don't support racism and judging people by the color of their skin.
Dismissing your daughter as a racist. Definitely not supportive.

Quote:
I don't support totally cutting off a loving grandmother/great grandmother.
Dismissing you daughter as unloving.

Quote:
I don't support being unbelievably rude to other people.
Dismissing your daughter as rude.

Based on what YOU are saying, it is clear your think your daughter is a racist, unloving, rude, all around horrible person. Why would she want to spend time with someone who thinks that about her?

Quote:
Sorry - I will never support that. If that means I'm "focused on being right" then gosh, I just don't know what else to do.

As for "understanding how she feels" I am telling you, I have spent hours at a time with her discussing her feelings. I HAVE listened to her - when she was talking to me. I have supported her emotionally as well as financially - for instance, my husband and I threw ourselves totally into supporting her and her family's desire to get out of the military and return to civilian life - I've detailed how much effort I put into all that, and during a very hard time in my life as our elderly parents were actively dying one right after the other.
But she is a horrible person according to you. Why would she want to spend time with someone who thinks such horrible things about her?

Quote:
I don't understand your snark "How's being right working out for you? For your grandkids?" Oh my gosh. Look here, I AM being treated terribly by my daughter, who is also keeping the grandkids away from me, and from my mother who has probably just weeks left on this earth. For months during her gradual sort of melt down, as she became more and more angry and distant, I accommodated her moods, even her rude behavior - against the advice of my husband and other family members who were appalled by her behavior. I made excuses for it, I tried talking with her and reaching out and all that - to no avail. It was like nothing I did meant anything positive and she became more and more critical of me, even right to my face, to the point that I felt I couldn't say anything without somehow offending her - heck, even offering her a stupid mixer offended her!
So now she isn't just racist, unloving, rude, but she is also angry and distant? So clearly you are better off without her. I wouldn't want to be around anyone who constantly classifies me as those things. So either she really is a horrible person and you are better off without her in your life, or maybe you are taking individual moments and using them to unfairly classify her. Either way I get why she does not want to talk to you.
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