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Old 08-31-2018, 01:15 PM
 
16,588 posts, read 14,066,182 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
My daughter has many years of life experience with and without me (like I said, she was in the military and moved quite a bit in her twenties) and there is no way I would dismiss all of her personality, her accomplishments, her talents, her artistic beauty, her intelligence, her mothering skills, her marriage and career and all of that as part of being a "horrible person." This is a fairly recent behavioral shift and yes, I do think that many of her current behaviors are pretty horrible. I do think she is behaving in a racist manner - NOW. Not all her life. I do think she has behaved rudely and in a hurtful manner recently, within the past several years. It's a SHIFT from her former self and it's been extremely hurtful, destructive to our family unit, etc.

But I am not dismissing her - I am grieving over this change in her demeanor and it's consequences. I want my daughter and my grandchildren back in my life - that's pretty much the opposite of "dismissing her" or thinking "I'm better off without her in my life."

I have explained her "divisive speech" several times and if you can't understand what I find divisive about "I have to stick with MY PEOPLE," and "Typical white people garbage," and that sort of statement, then you may understand why I don't want to talk with you anymore.
It is so hypocritical to complain about her "divisive speech" and yet call her views radicalized, racist, horrible, whatever. You are literally doing exactly what you say she is doing. It is so divisive it has divided your family.

You have the right to your opinion, and so does she. But you are belittling her opinion, and her speech and take zero responsibility for the divisiveness of your own choice of language.

And let's be really clear, you want your daughter back in her life if she behaves the exact way you want her to behave and to never, ever call you out on your issues. No wonder she is so angry. I think your counselor had it right, you should just leave her be.

As an aside about isolation. Given that KA is not speaking to her daughter, not visiting her, etc. and has some control issues, it is possible whomever she is asking for information about her daughter is leaving much out.

 
Old 08-31-2018, 03:08 PM
 
1,629 posts, read 561,428 times
Reputation: 3089
Edited because I changed my mind about responding.

Last edited by BBCjunkie; 08-31-2018 at 03:36 PM..
 
Old 08-31-2018, 03:46 PM
 
6,542 posts, read 1,344,624 times
Reputation: 16564
I just want to put it out there that NO ONE knows everything about anyone, as that would be an impossibility because no one is privy to someone's every conversation and every thought; and, of course, people are hearing only one side. It is difficult to be objective when one is in the middle of a personal situation, but I do think that Kathryn is being as honest as she possibly can be about a very difficult situation, and she has both my sympathy and my empathy.
 
Old 08-31-2018, 04:37 PM
 
1,193 posts, read 1,424,549 times
Reputation: 2471
I agree.
 
Old 08-31-2018, 05:08 PM
 
13,408 posts, read 6,688,989 times
Reputation: 12875
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
She was initially speaking regularly with two of the three, especially right before and after she cut everything off with me, but I do not believe she has spoken with them recently. By "recently" I mean within the past six months.

Prior to this change in her, she was calling and responding in a loving, friendly way to all her siblings and her grandparents and great grandparents (including me). I'm telling you, there was a marked and deliberate and very shocking change in her within just a few months (like three months or so) and she began severing relationships - first with my parents and then with my husband and me and one of her siblings - all within a few months.
After her grandfather's death and after all the stuff that came up in the aftermath, you have to tell any professional you talk to about that. The meltdown is critical information. If you tell them 'it's because I'm white' they can't help you. You have to tell them about all her reasons, whether you agree with them or not, or they can't help you.

I would cease all communication completely. Do the thing where you write letters and buy presents or deposit money or buy savings bonds in a safety deposit box for the grandkids so worst case scenario, when they are of age they can see you thought of them on their birthdays and Christmas and so forth, but psychology 101, stop chasing the daughter, she isn't giving the letters to the kids to them anyway. The more you chase her down, the more secure she feels about ignoring you.

If you start ignoring her, that takes away part of her oomph. Plus, it's not productive. When you text I love you and your family, she doesn't go oh, that is so nice. She is like omg, this is so intrusive, this is why I hate her, she doesn't listen!

Stop giving her more reasons to be pissed off. There is the chance that when you finally back off, as the Pastor and counselor advised a long time ago, she will get curious. She might start asking others what is going on and they can say 'She is respecting your boundaries'. That would probably be music to her ears, and there becomes the chance that you two could take baby steps from there. ON HER TERMS, that part is critical.
 
Old 08-31-2018, 08:14 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
44,694 posts, read 36,132,256 times
Reputation: 63261
Quote:
Originally Posted by winterbird View Post
Physical isolation is overtly abusive. An equally dangerous, yet covert, form of abuse is to separate emotionally/socially those who are in a position to compare notes and fight for accountability. Your daughter is definitely counting on you, the husband, and those kids to not betray her confidences and secrets.

She knows you're not a spiteful/vindictive person. She knows you don't want to give her one more reason to mistreat you. She knows her husband is passive and absent. And she knows her kids are, well, kids. She's perfectly positioned to carry out her abusive behavior.

I would most definitely tell him what she's said about him. This situation really can't get any worse. I mean it can, but you know. If he's guilty of the horrible things she's said about him, he needs to be held accountable. If he's innocent of those accusations, he needs to know he's being slandered so he can protect himself and his children. Together you two may be able to get somewhere. Divide and conquer is an effective control mechanism.

Just thought I'd throw that out there. Abusers count on everyone else playing by the rules. It's a kink in the civilized armor they take advantage of. Sometimes we have to toughen up and do what needs to be done.

I understand and respect your position either way, KA.
You have spoken a whole lotta truth here, and I'm thinking hard about all this. Just wanted you to know that.

I've texted her husband twice in a year and a half to let him know the door is open, and IMMEDIATELY my daughter (not her husband) responded with "LEAVE MY HUSBAND ALONE." But he should know that he can contact us at any time. I really don't know what else to do at this point.
 
Old 08-31-2018, 08:40 PM
 
3,412 posts, read 3,220,685 times
Reputation: 3853
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
You have spoken a whole lotta truth here, and I'm thinking hard about all this. Just wanted you to know that.

I've texted her husband twice in a year and a half to let him know the door is open, and IMMEDIATELY my daughter (not her husband) responded with "LEAVE MY HUSBAND ALONE." But he should know that he can contact us at any time. I really don't know what else to do at this point.
He doesn't want to get in the middle of it. This is between you and your daughter. Reaching out to him is once again not going to get you where you want to be.

You want back in her life and right now she doesn't want that. Stop trying. She's aware of how you feel. At this point, she doesn't care. You making contact only makes it worse. She isn't going to respond.

She's done and perhaps she's made peace with that. You need to do the same.

I'm not trying to be mean just honest.
 
Old 09-01-2018, 01:05 AM
 
2,069 posts, read 1,149,555 times
Reputation: 4752
I would nor tolerate a racist in my home nor would I tolerate someone in my house who was being rude to me, my children and/or other guests. Why do people here believe ANYONE should have to tolerate such behavior? I would call anyone out for being like that in my home. Why shouldn't KA do the same or has her daughter intimidated them all so much for so long, everyone walks on eggshells and won't say anything around her? Adults are accountable for their own behavior. Her daughter has been nasty and rude and should be held accountable for that behavior. That's how life works. I bet her daughter doesn't behave this way out in public or on a job.
 
Old 09-01-2018, 01:12 AM
 
13,408 posts, read 6,688,989 times
Reputation: 12875
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrassTacksGal View Post
I would nor tolerate a racist in my home nor would I tolerate someone in my house who was being rude to me, my children and/or other guests. Why do people here believe ANYONE should have to tolerate such behavior? I would call anyone out for being like that in my home. Why shouldn't KA do the same or has her daughter intimidated them all so much for so long, everyone walks on eggshells and won't say anything around her? Adults are accountable for their own behavior. Her daughter has been nasty and rude and should be held accountable for that behavior. That's how life works. I bet her daughter doesn't behave this way out in public or on a job.
OK, well daughter solved that problem, didn't she? She's not coming to the house or any of that. Hold her accountable how? When people choose to exit your orbit, they aren't accountable to you anymore. I haven't seen anyone say KA should have tolerated any of that. A lot of people have said ok, you drew your line in the sand. She crossed it. She got the consequences. And now she has turned the tables. Welcome to the other side of boundaries.
 
Old 09-01-2018, 05:02 AM
 
1,193 posts, read 1,424,549 times
Reputation: 2471
I'd forgotten about that incident (post #276)She's got a lot of control over the husband. Good grief!
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