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Old 09-01-2018, 06:17 AM
 
16,599 posts, read 14,088,141 times
Reputation: 20563

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrassTacksGal View Post
I would nor tolerate a racist in my home nor would I tolerate someone in my house who was being rude to me, my children and/or other guests. Why do people here believe ANYONE should have to tolerate such behavior? I would call anyone out for being like that in my home. Why shouldn't KA do the same or has her daughter intimidated them all so much for so long, everyone walks on eggshells and won't say anything around her? Adults are accountable for their own behavior. Her daughter has been nasty and rude and should be held accountable for that behavior. That's how life works. I bet her daughter doesn't behave this way out in public or on a job.
Because she is the one trying to get a relationship with her daughter and grandkids.

She of course has the right to set any boundaries she wants. 100%. All day everyday. But that resulted in no relationship as is the daughters right.

So KA has to decide which matters to her more, those boundaries or a relationship with her daughter and those grandkids.

Internet forums can serve a couple of purposes. Ideally it can allow us to step outside our own perspective and see things from anotherís point of view, unfortunately this is rare. Most of the time it acts an echo chamber, where people only listen to those posts that reflect back what they want to hear. KA has a simple decision, choose to take responsibility for her own actions and potentially start a new relationship ship with this part of her family or do nothing different and have no relationship with them. It wonít be easy but it is simple.

But, yes ultimately you are correct, KA has every right to set whatever boundaries she wants. She seems less than pleased with the outcome of that.

 
Old 09-01-2018, 08:16 AM
 
6,216 posts, read 2,877,190 times
Reputation: 15761
Well said !
Keep standards steady and adjust expectations.
KA is not accountable for the daughters outburst. KA is responsible for her own action or reaction to the encounters. And to be clear most adults would escort the offender who is making a scene to the door.
Certain states do have grandparent visitation rights. If her state allows it ..it's an option to persue.
Using the grandkids in the mist of this isn't healing anything. I'm so sorry KA that you are being targeted as the problem...you are not . The solution though is impeded by one adult ceasing to keep the lines open.
Place your energy where it serves the most good. In this time it's your mom and your stability .
 
Old 09-01-2018, 08:16 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
44,938 posts, read 36,237,009 times
Reputation: 63613
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riley09swb View Post
He doesn't want to get in the middle of it. This is between you and your daughter. Reaching out to him is once again not going to get you where you want to be.

You want back in her life and right now she doesn't want that. Stop trying. She's aware of how you feel. At this point, she doesn't care. You making contact only makes it worse. She isn't going to respond.

She's done and perhaps she's made peace with that. You need to do the same.

I'm not trying to be mean just honest.
Oh I get you. No worries.

In fact, this thread has sort of stirred up my emotions more than they've been consistently the past couple of months. I'm making peace with it, but I do still feel a lot of sorrow - just not shock and awe anymore if that makes sense.

I haven't contacted her husband in months - maybe even not for a year. Besides the fact that she immediately contacted me (not him), I realized that he's either immediately telling her I contacted him, or she's watching his phone constantly. Either way it seemed counterproductive so I stopped trying.

Her father kept me on a very short leash, and I think she does the same thing with her husband. Back when we had what I thought was a good relationship, her husband would be at work and she was texting him CONSTANTLY. I mean, bam, back and forth all day long for hours. He works in the oilfield so I don't know how he could do that, but hopefully they were shut down or something - like every time I was around her when he was working apparently.

At that time, she was actively and constantly trying to get him to quit his job, which pays very well but takes him away from home for six days and then home for three, to take a job literally a quarter of a mile from their house - poor pay but he'd be right there and as she put it, "He'd even be able to come home for lunch." Wow, when she said that, I thought "She is reminding me of her dad," because he wanted to know exactly where I was every minute of every day, and he made a point of coming home for lunch every day, as well as randomly dropping in throughout the day to be sure I was home bound. (This was before cell phones and tracking people via cell phones was possible.) There was absolute hell to pay if I wasn't home.

Anyway, my daughter's husband didn't get his career started well till he was in his late thirties, and according to what he continues to tell people (apparently - I'm getting less and less news, mostly because I'm just not asking anyone anymore) he loves the oilfield and I think he's still got the same job with good pay, but the idea that she'd want him to quit that job and work for about HALF the pay but right around the corner was sort of alarming.

According to her, but who knows because she has told all sorts of lies about me so maybe this is a lie about him, her husband is gone six days and then comes home and drinks non stop for the three days he's home. I don't know about all that, but I do think he likes the schedule in general.

But who would know - certainly not me and she's become a lot less communicative with her siblings too from what they voluntarily tell me.
 
Old 09-01-2018, 08:18 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
44,938 posts, read 36,237,009 times
Reputation: 63613
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrassTacksGal View Post
I would nor tolerate a racist in my home nor would I tolerate someone in my house who was being rude to me, my children and/or other guests. Why do people here believe ANYONE should have to tolerate such behavior? I would call anyone out for being like that in my home. Why shouldn't KA do the same or has her daughter intimidated them all so much for so long, everyone walks on eggshells and won't say anything around her? Adults are accountable for their own behavior. Her daughter has been nasty and rude and should be held accountable for that behavior. That's how life works. I bet her daughter doesn't behave this way out in public or on a job.
Amen. Whenever I start feeling sad about it all, I think about how awful the last few months leading up to her cut off were. My daughter is a natural beauty - striking in fact. She's very well spoken and generally very polite to people. She does know how to behave.
 
Old 09-01-2018, 08:27 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
44,938 posts, read 36,237,009 times
Reputation: 63613
Quote:
Originally Posted by winterbird View Post
I'd forgotten about that incident (post #276)She's got a lot of control over the husband. Good grief!
Bingo. And she told me some horrible stuff about him when she was actively trying to get him to quit his job and take a job close to their house. "Close enough for him to walk home for lunch!" She was telling me that he was drinking a lot - all the time when he got home, and often while he was gone. She was telling me that she had found his info out on the internet on dating sites, that other women were calling him, etc.

Now listen - I don't know if all that is true or not, but I do know that he just doesn't SEEM like that type to me. He's a very good looking man but he's also naturally shy and reserved. I have seen him drink quite a bit in fact, like at a Superbowl party or something like that, but he's not a rowdy drunk, he just gets even more quiet when he drinks, so if he was drunk I didn't even notice it. So the stories she was telling me seemed really extreme.

But then, her dad would tell people all sorts of ridiculous stuff about me - my own family in fact. He would tell them "Yeah, when I met Kathryn, she was on drugs." WHAT?????? I have never taken drugs - I have never even seen cocaine, I've always been scared to take anyone else's prescription drugs, I hate needles and can't imagine "shooting up," and I can count the times I've smoked weed on one hand, with fingers left over! But he actually told my brothers and my kids this! He also told people that I cheated on him - blatantly and absolutely untrue. Not that I didn't have the opportunity, but I am just naturally wired together to be extremely monogamous - I have never desired the drama of unfaithfulness. He, however, was unfaithful to me. Hm.

So when our daughter began making those sorts of accusations against her husband, I did talk seriously with her about it, but inside I was thinking, "Don't be a hater - this may not even be true." I just said, "Well, honey, if he's doing these things, and you want your marriage to work, you may need to insist on counseling." I have hoped she'd go to SOME SORT OF COUNSELING for decades. She needs it. Maybe they both need it. Most people would benefit from it in fact, in my opinion. I know I have.
 
Old 09-01-2018, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
44,938 posts, read 36,237,009 times
Reputation: 63613
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Because she is the one trying to get a relationship with her daughter and grandkids.

She of course has the right to set any boundaries she wants. 100%. All day everyday. But that resulted in no relationship as is the daughters right.

So KA has to decide which matters to her more, those boundaries or a relationship with her daughter and those grandkids.

Internet forums can serve a couple of purposes. Ideally it can allow us to step outside our own perspective and see things from anotherís point of view, unfortunately this is rare. Most of the time it acts an echo chamber, where people only listen to those posts that reflect back what they want to hear. KA has a simple decision, choose to take responsibility for her own actions and potentially start a new relationship ship with this part of her family or do nothing different and have no relationship with them. It wonít be easy but it is simple.

But, yes ultimately you are correct, KA has every right to set whatever boundaries she wants. She seems less than pleased with the outcome of that.
I am very sad about my daughter's decision to cut us out of her life. But you're right, it's totally her decision because my decision is that I will simply not tolerate that level of rude, dysfunctional behavior from anyone.

You know, what if she was stealing from us? Should we tolerate that just to have a relationship? What if she was a KKK member and came over wearing racist T shirts or whatever, and wanted to talk about KKK stuff all the time - should we tolerate that in our own home just to have a relationship?

Let's turn the tables - what if I was a white supremacist and wanted to go over to her house and spout off white supremacist jargon all day long? Would it be reasonable to say to her, "Well, if you want to have a relationship with your white supremacist mother, then you'll just have to put up with that."

Everyone has their limits - or should, I guess.
 
Old 09-01-2018, 08:33 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
44,938 posts, read 36,237,009 times
Reputation: 63613
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nov3 View Post
Well said !
Keep standards steady and adjust expectations.
KA is not accountable for the daughters outburst. KA is responsible for her own action or reaction to the encounters. And to be clear most adults would escort the offender who is making a scene to the door.
Certain states do have grandparent visitation rights. If her state allows it ..it's an option to persue.
Using the grandkids in the mist of this isn't healing anything. I'm so sorry KA that you are being targeted as the problem...you are not . The solution though is impeded by one adult ceasing to keep the lines open.
Place your energy where it serves the most good. In this time it's your mom and your stability .
I think this is true.
 
Old 09-01-2018, 08:41 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
44,938 posts, read 36,237,009 times
Reputation: 63613
I've asked to have this thread closed - at this point, I think we're all talking in circles and everything that needs to be said has been said.

Not sure if it can be closed but I'm outta here. If anyone wants to chime in, offer advice, cuss at me, whatever, please just PM me. And thanks to those who have already done so, and to those who have taken the time to really think things over and respond in fairness and kindness - I appreciate your concern and advice.
 
Old 09-01-2018, 08:52 AM
 
3,416 posts, read 3,227,839 times
Reputation: 3853
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
Oh I get you. No worries.

In fact, this thread has sort of stirred up my emotions more than they've been consistently the past couple of months. I'm making peace with it, but I do still feel a lot of sorrow - just not shock and awe anymore if that makes sense.

I haven't contacted her husband in months - maybe even not for a year. Besides the fact that she immediately contacted me (not him), I realized that he's either immediately telling her I contacted him, or she's watching his phone constantly. Either way it seemed counterproductive so I stopped trying.

Her father kept me on a very short leash, and I think she does the same thing with her husband. Back when we had what I thought was a good relationship, her husband would be at work and she was texting him CONSTANTLY. I mean, bam, back and forth all day long for hours. He works in the oilfield so I don't know how he could do that, but hopefully they were shut down or something - like every time I was around her when he was working apparently.

At that time, she was actively and constantly trying to get him to quit his job, which pays very well but takes him away from home for six days and then home for three, to take a job literally a quarter of a mile from their house - poor pay but he'd be right there and as she put it, "He'd even be able to come home for lunch." Wow, when she said that, I thought "She is reminding me of her dad," because he wanted to know exactly where I was every minute of every day, and he made a point of coming home for lunch every day, as well as randomly dropping in throughout the day to be sure I was home bound. (This was before cell phones and tracking people via cell phones was possible.) There was absolute hell to pay if I wasn't home.

Anyway, my daughter's husband didn't get his career started well till he was in his late thirties, and according to what he continues to tell people (apparently - I'm getting less and less news, mostly because I'm just not asking anyone anymore) he loves the oilfield and I think he's still got the same job with good pay, but the idea that she'd want him to quit that job and work for about HALF the pay but right around the corner was sort of alarming.

According to her, but who knows because she has told all sorts of lies about me so maybe this is a lie about him, her husband is gone six days and then comes home and drinks non stop for the three days he's home. I don't know about all that, but I do think he likes the schedule in general.

But who would know - certainly not me and she's become a lot less communicative with her siblings too from what they voluntarily tell me.
I think you need to stop comparing her marriage and behavior to your marriage to her dad. She made a mistake in confiding in you about her husband. She shouldn't have done that.

Maybe they were going through a rough patch and he was drinking was stress related. Maybe he was cheating on her and she associated that with the job. So she wanted him to get a new one that brought him closer to home. It's not sinister.

Do you compare her to her father a lot? The way she acts and the things she does?
 
Old 09-01-2018, 08:54 AM
 
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
7,323 posts, read 4,169,633 times
Reputation: 18377
Quote:
Originally Posted by jencam View Post
After her grandfather's death and after all the stuff that came up in the aftermath, you have to tell any professional you talk to about that. The meltdown is critical information. If you tell them 'it's because I'm white' they can't help you. You have to tell them about all her reasons, whether you agree with them or not, or they can't help you.

I would cease all communication completely. Do the thing where you write letters and buy presents or deposit money or buy savings bonds in a safety deposit box for the grandkids so worst case scenario, when they are of age they can see you thought of them on their birthdays and Christmas and so forth, but psychology 101, stop chasing the daughter, she isn't giving the letters to the kids to them anyway. The more you chase her down, the more secure she feels about ignoring you.

If you start ignoring her, that takes away part of her oomph. Plus, it's not productive. When you text I love you and your family, she doesn't go oh, that is so nice. She is like omg, this is so intrusive, this is why I hate her, she doesn't listen!

Stop giving her more reasons to be pissed off. There is the chance that when you finally back off, as the Pastor and counselor advised a long time ago, she will get curious. She might start asking others what is going on and they can say 'She is respecting your boundaries'. That would probably be music to her ears, and there becomes the chance that you two could take baby steps from there. ON HER TERMS, that part is critical.
I agree with all of this. The only problem is that IF the daughter isnít simply angry but is having some sort of mental breakdown or is becoming an emotionally manipulative/abusive person like her father, this leaves the grandkids high and dry. But absent firm evidence that Child Protective Services needs to become involved, thatís probably unavoidable. (Walking away and letting the daughter be would be a whole lot easier emotionally if the grandkids were enrolled in public school - at least KA would know other adults had their eyes on them, the kids had friends, and they were actually following a real educational curriculum.)
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