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Old 07-22-2018, 07:50 AM
 
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Kathryn

We have 4 sons from my husbands first marriage. Three of them have kids. We've always had a good relationship with all of them and were seeing our grandchildren pretty regularly. About 2 years ago one son stopped calling or returning calls/emails. At first, we attributed it to his very busy job and being on the road a lot. It soon became clear that he is estranged for no known reason.

After multiple attempts at contacting him, we finally sent him a note telling him we missed him and loved him and would appreciate the opportunity to discuss whatever the reason is that he is not talking to us. In addition to whatever toys we gift the kids, at Xmas we usually send a large check "for the family" to each adult child. This past year we sent estranged son a card but told him we were sending the check to his ex to use for the kids as he has since divorced.

Our oldest son recently ran interference and arranged to pick up the grand kids from estranged child, bring them back to his house and we spent a week with both sets of grandkids.

Is there anyone in the family who can do that.....like your brother or other children or even someone from her fathers family?

I agree is pointless to chase your daughter. From what you have described, she has a long way to go to overcome the abuse inflicted on her by her father since she isn't even naming as abuse yet. Doubtful she will make much if any progress there without professional help. And, I hate to tell you this, but if she does get help the anger/hurt she dredges up is going to spill over onto you because you chose the man who is her father and kept her there for some amount of time past the first time he abused her.

It wouldn't surprise me if all or a lot of her current behavior is misplaced hurt/anger over the abuse she suffered as a child. Abuse causes rage. It cant stay bottled forever and it comes out one way or another...…..if she cant be angry at her father, she may be directing that anger other places......you, white people, etc.

Where is your son-in-law in all of this?

 
Old 07-22-2018, 08:19 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jencam View Post




Quote:
Oh Kathryn. You're not in a position to insist on anything at all. Almost two years of no contact hasn't taught you that, which is pretty astonishing.
Wow. Let me tell you something - I am pretty powerless in this but there is ONE THING I can insist on, and that is that people in my life treat everyone with respect, including but not limited to me. So I guess if that means that I have no relationship with my daughter, because she will not treat me decently and honestly, then so be it. That doesn't mean it doesn't break my heart. But I am not going to put up with abuse or blatant rudeness just to have some sort of relationship, with anyone. Anywhere. Any time.

You know, I'm not talking about an occasional lapse in self control here - that's excusable in any relationship I think, among humans. I'm talking about consistent rudeness, anger, fit pitching, making people wait for hours (she's done that several times - no call, not returning calls, table set, extended family waiting - she shows up two hours late - this is the 21st century and communication isn't that difficult), blatant lying to me and about me to other people. You're right - I can't insist she like me, or allow her kids to have a relationship with me, but I can insist that if we have a relationship, it be mutually respectful.

Quote:
Also, God only knows how deep the divide runs between y'all, you said you could write a whole book about that, but one glaring thing is she is uber sensitive to anything resembling criticism and you love to criticize. Or 'help' as you see it. You still can't leave your mother's hair alone, and she is literally demented.
I am 100 percent responsible for the care of my mother. I cannot just "leave her hair alone" or it would be a filthy, stinking mess unfortunately. So yes, I will continue to try to get her to cooperate with bathing and washing her hair. Sorry if you consider that "criticizing" rather than "helping." We will just have to agree to disagree on that.

I do not "love to criticize" by the way. I actually hate to criticize. I hate dissention. I hate drama between people. I just want people to be able to relax and enjoy each other's company.

But having a mentally ill mother and brother, and now this with my daughter, who is also probably in need of some professional help, has really taken a toll on me emotionally, and I don't feel guilty for being occasionally frustrated and overwhelmed by all the bizarre behavior from a few people in my family. I thank God every single day of my life - literally - for my normal relationship with one brother, three of my adult kids, my step son, and most of all my husband.

Quote:
How can you ever refrain from 'helping' your daughter? And you have to, if you want anything to do with your grandkids. How can you help your relationship? Stop helping in the ways you think are helpful, but come across as criticism.
Sorry but this is just ridiculous. I don't meddle in her life - I don't even have access to her life, and when I did, I didn't try constantly to "help her" and I certainly didn't constantly, or even regularly, criticize her. I was constantly building her up in fact, bragging on her, calling her and asking her for advice on various things, supporting her efforts to rebuild her life after getting out of the military - in fact, my husband and I gave her TONS of furniture and household items, got her husband a job (which he still has - a very good job which allowed her to stay home with the kids - and which he has kept due to his own talents, I might add), I babysat for kids, helped them move twice, supported her homeschooling, etc etc. She got into things she didn't share with me though - starting with cosplay stuff and all these videos she has online, that have to take hours to compile - she posts several a week and they have been a huge part of her life for years but she never one time told me she was even interested in any of this.

Quote:
I honestly do not think you can do that, based on how challenging that is with your mother.
Oh my god. My mother is mentally ill and has been for decades, refusing to get treatment, and now she has dementia and I am the only person who takes care of her. Yes, very frustrating, very challenging, very scary in fact. I have expressed these challenges but let me make something very clear to you - I don't think it's unreasonable to be challenged by this set of circumstances and frankly I don't apologize for it or feel guilty for it. I am taking care of my mother and I'm the only person doing it, and sometimes it is sad and difficult but that is NOT because I am overly critical of her. It is difficult and sad because she is mentally ill and has also had a stroke and now has dementia. My gosh, if that's not sad and difficult to deal with, I don't know what is.

Quote:
You are too busy feeling offended (which is natural to) to HEAR her. To understand her viewpoint. For some reason you seem to refuse (from what you have written here) to just understand her, it always has to be an argument.
Yes, I am very offended when she is blatantly rude, dismissive, and actively dishonest about me, to me, etc. It's very, very unsettling and makes listening to her difficult. It's hard to hear someone when they are either screaming in your face or giving you the silent treatment - for years. I don't want to argue with her - I don't want showdowns and screaming hissy fits and silent treatment - who would want that? I want peace in my house and in my life. I am not inclined to accommodate bizarre behavior, especially coupled with rude behavior.

Quote:
The BLM thing really sticks out to me. From the dang internet I understand you don't say to black activists 'All Lives Matter'. To them this is an affront.
Thanks for giving me the opportunity to clear this up. I didn't go on and on saying that - when the movement was NEW, BEFORE all the coverage about BLM and how offensive this statement "all lives matter" apparently is to them, I used that statement around her once or twice. ALWAYS COUPLED WITH MY TOTAL SUPPORT OF ANYONE WHO IS ABUSED BY LAW ENFORCEMENT. For instance, I was very, very outspoken about my belief that Trayvon Martin was innocent and needlessly slaughtered - same with Freddie Gray and some other very high profile cases involving AA people who were mistreated and even killed. I have never one time stated or believed that law enforcement gets a pass or that there is no racism in some actions or factions in our society. My point though has always been that racism and judging people solely by the color of their skin is wrong FROM ANYONE TO ANYONE. This is what she has a hard time with - because sadly, SHE is a racist, I believe. She wasn't always like this - she became much more militant over the past couple of years, and in fact, it has become a sticking point between her and her siblings because they don't agree with her level of militant racism either.

Quote:
Why would you argue that with your bi-racial activist daughter of all people? As if anything could be less important than politics between a mother and daughter, who happens to be mentally ill.
I DON'T want to argue with her and try not to argue with her. She knows that she does and believes things that I don't agree with, and that is what gets under her skin - that she knows I don't and won't just totally support her. Listen, she is much more militant and much more of an activist than I ever thought about being. But the thing is, me just being a white woman is enough to set her against me. I am not exaggerating that. I don't have to say a word, I only have to be me. It is very difficult to even be around that level of condemnation and be gracious about it.

The last year or so she was in my life, let me tell you how bad it was. My brother called me one time and I have ring tones for different family members so I know who is calling me. His is a Scottish ringtone because he and his wife are all into Scottish stuff - actually his ringtone is the theme from Braveheart because it's his favorite movie. So when he called, that song came on. She looked over at other family members and literally rolled her eyes and said, "Who on earth puts a ringtone like that on their phone?" It's that level of dislike for me that I was dealing with - no matter what I did or said, she had a sarcastic comeback, or at the very least she would roll her eyes. I swear to you, I could say something as innocuous as "Wow, this gravy needs some salt" (gravy I made, not her), and she'd roll her eyes or come back with some sarcastic comment. That is not an exaggeration. So you can imagine the response I'd get if I said something like "What cute dresses these girls have on!" She wouldn't be pleased - she'd probably never put them on her kids again - because I liked them. It got that bad. I felt like I couldn't say anything - if I said it felt good outside, she'd take offense or find something wrong with that statement, give it some dark, ulterior motive from me. Sheeze!

By the way, you keep saying she's mentally ill but she has no diagnosis and while I think she would benefit greatly from some professional counseling, I am not trying to be an armchair psychiatrist with her. I think everyone could probably benefit from some quality counseling. I know I have.

Quote:
You don't have to agree with her to say that you totally understand where she is coming from. Or do you really not? Can you not?
Sigh. I HAVE told her - over and over again - that I understand where she's coming from, that her feelings are valid, etc - because I believe that. That's not enough for her. She doesn't like me. She doesn't like white people. She doesn't like people whose political views differ from hers (for the record, my very best friend is a little Italian woman from NY who is a liberal - we are like Mutt and Jeff - so believe me, I have no beef with people just because we don't believe the same things politically - but the big difference is that my best friend and I have a mutually respectful relationship). She doesn't want me in her life - apparently in any role or any circumstances.

That's what I'm dealing with - total rejection of who I am as a person - my personality, my ethnicity, my values, everything. Everything. It's devastating emotionally or can be if I let it be, which I'm thankfully learning to work through. I just want to be sure I'm not overlooking some key element or something that I could do to make things better between my daughter and me.
 
Old 07-22-2018, 11:44 AM
 
Location: New Yawk
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It must be tough for her to reconcile being a liberal woman of color, while having white conservative mom. That’s not to suggest that it is your fault, but that that circumstance combined with continuously trying to win the approval of her father must really be taking a toll. She probably feels safer rejecting you instead of him because she is less certain of how unconditional his love might be for her.

It really sounds like she has a lot of growing up to, and time to come to terms with being part of two very different worlds.
 
Old 07-22-2018, 12:11 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginge McFantaPants View Post
It must be tough for her to reconcile being a liberal woman of color, while having white conservative mom. Thatís not to suggest that it is your fault, but that that circumstance combined with continuously trying to win the approval of her father must really be taking a toll. She probably feels safer rejecting you instead of him because she is less certain of how unconditional his love might be for her.

It really sounds like she has a lot of growing up to, and time to come to terms with being part of two very different worlds.
I agree. And I have tried to be empathetic with her but she assumes that I can't be, so therefore it must be an act or something.

Tonight I am working on a speech I am going to give at a school board meeting tomorrow night. It's about changing the name of a local high school FROM Robert E Lee to some name that's not as burdensome to the largely minority population of the school. As the mother of several former students, I agree that the name is unsettling at best and offensive at worst to some people, and unnecessarily divisive. So - not to please my daughter, or my husband, or any of my other kids, or my friends (who seem to be about evenly divided on the issue) but just to please myself, just because I - this white conservative middle aged middle class woman - think it's best to change the name.

This is just the sort of thing that I would think she and I could agree upon, discuss, whatever - and this is just the sort of issue that I have ALWAYS taken a stand on - but to hear her side of the story, you'd think I was nothing more than a Make 'Murica Great Again mindless, blindly following Republican goon (actually I'm an Independent and rarely vote a straight ticket, and have voted for Democrats for president before but I digress).

SHE wants to put me in a box based on my skin color, which is very ironic to me since that is the crux of racism to me - and yet she calls herself taking a stand against racism. No, she's not - she's taking a stand against white people, starting with her mom.

I am appalled by this and I did not raise her this way.

Her husband is mostly Italian by the way - he's Italian and Panamanian. Their kids, who are BEAUTIFUL, are multiracial. I feel like it's unhealthy for them grow up in an atmosphere of animosity toward part of their ethnicity and ancestry. And I hate that she's probably lying about me like she tried to do with my brothers and her other siblings (who thankfully didn't fall for it - in fact, my brothers put her straight in a New York second and two of her three siblings also immediately called her hand, though one did take a little more time to come back around, which was also painful, but thankfully in the past).

I guess I just wish she was more empathetic - in the past four years I've lost both my inlaws, my husband had a very serious health set back, then my dad got terminally ill and then died, and my mom fell and broke her hip in the middle of all this, and developed vascular dementia too, and an eating disorder, and one of my brothers was involuntarily committed to a mental hospital and then a program, and I had surgery on one of my ankles, and we also moved - and I've probably left some stressors out. Oh, right - then I had to bury my dad, settle his estate in two states, including shutting down a business, sell property in two states, move my mom TWICE into assisted living and then memory care, take her elderly, unhousebroken dogs to be put down, file for guardianship of my MIL so that her dead husband's sister and brother wouldn't be able to steal TENS OF THOUSANDS of dollars from her...let me think...yeah, it's been a really, really tough four years. The toughest of my life. Was I at my best this entire time? No, sometimes I was weak, I cried, I drank three glasses of wine in the evening, I panicked, I worried, I overthought options, etc. I am only one human being, not Superwoman, not a goddess, not a divine entity, not a hero, just a regular woman with a helluva lot of emotional stuff going on. The last thing I needed was for one of my kids to go off the deep end, cut me out of her life, and take four of my grandkids away from my mother and me.

We really, really, really could use some grandbaby and daughter love in our lives. It would have been wonderful to be able to curl up in the evening and just talk with my daughter on the phone, or spend a fun weekend with a grandbaby or two, spoiling them, taking them to the hibachi grill, out shopping, to the dinosaur exhibit, or the zoo or whatever. Nope. White lady is not allowed to influence the children!
 
Old 07-22-2018, 12:20 PM
 
1,481 posts, read 591,143 times
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When someone responds to black lives matter with all lives matter, they are singing from the Fox news hymn book. You are marginalizing her concerns about unarmed black people being killed by trigger happy cops. If you can't be on her side on that issue your daughter sees you as a racist and a hypocrite. In her mind you are toxic and she doesn't want you influencing her kids. In truth, it seems to her that your politics is more important to you than she and her kids are. It's like when soeone talks about the haulocaust and you say well, the Nazi's had some good points in their favor too. If you want to win her back put on a black lives matter t-shirt and ask if you can march in a protest with her and the kids. I doubt if any of this is about skin color for her. Lots of white people are at those rallies and protests.

Last edited by bobspez; 07-22-2018 at 12:29 PM..
 
Old 07-22-2018, 12:34 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
40,879 posts, read 32,642,286 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blondy View Post
Kathryn

We have 4 sons from my husbands first marriage. Three of them have kids. We've always had a good relationship with all of them and were seeing our grandchildren pretty regularly. About 2 years ago one son stopped calling or returning calls/emails. At first, we attributed it to his very busy job and being on the road a lot. It soon became clear that he is estranged for no known reason.

After multiple attempts at contacting him, we finally sent him a note telling him we missed him and loved him and would appreciate the opportunity to discuss whatever the reason is that he is not talking to us. In addition to whatever toys we gift the kids, at Xmas we usually send a large check "for the family" to each adult child. This past year we sent estranged son a card but told him we were sending the check to his ex to use for the kids as he has since divorced.

Our oldest son recently ran interference and arranged to pick up the grand kids from estranged child, bring them back to his house and we spent a week with both sets of grandkids.

Is there anyone in the family who can do that.....like your brother or other children or even someone from her fathers family?

I agree is pointless to chase your daughter. From what you have described, she has a long way to go to overcome the abuse inflicted on her by her father since she isn't even naming as abuse yet. Doubtful she will make much if any progress there without professional help. And, I hate to tell you this, but if she does get help the anger/hurt she dredges up is going to spill over onto you because you chose the man who is her father and kept her there for some amount of time past the first time he abused her.

It wouldn't surprise me if all or a lot of her current behavior is misplaced hurt/anger over the abuse she suffered as a child. Abuse causes rage. It cant stay bottled forever and it comes out one way or another...Ö..if she cant be angry at her father, she may be directing that anger other places......you, white people, etc.

Where is your son-in-law in all of this?
Thank you so much and good questions and insight by the way.

I am so sorry you're dealing with this too and I appreciate your honesty - I have been getting private messages from other parents who are telling me similar stories of estrangement so while i wouldn't wish this on any grandparent, at least we're not alone in this. It's just not something people seem to talk about much.

I do think my daughter has a whole lot of issues she needs to deal with and work through and no, she hasn't ever received or sought a lick of professional help about these from what I can tell. I know that until I dealt with my issues with professional help, I was also misplacing a lot of feelings. I didn't want to just go from one abusive relationship to the next though, so I knew I had to get my head on straight, and I feel like I put in the hard work to do so. And I was about her age, so it's not like I don't think it can be done. It can definitely be done and she would be a lot better off for it if she'd just do it.

My son in law is a very tortured soul. He has a HORRIBLE relationship with his own mother, who abandoned him to his grandparents when he was about 9 and he didn't even see her again till he was grown. She is a real piece of work. The family he grew up in is Panamanian and very, very loud, demonstrative, combative with each other, etc and he is very, very quiet and withdrawn. I tried to bring him out of his shell, my husband and I both did, by paying attention to him, always seeking him out at family gatherings, my husband took him under his wing and helped him find a good job in the oilfield, DURING THE DOWNTURN in fact, and when everything hit the fan with my daughter, I tried reaching out again to her husband, telling him in a text that he was family and that we love him and think the world of him (he really has been a good provider and is a loving dad from what we can tell).

My daughter immediately texted me back, told me that she knew I texted her husband and to leave him alone and never talk with him again. WHOA. To be honest, I fired back and told her that if he wanted me to quit communicating with him, he could tell me that but that was going to be between he and I. He just never really responded one way or the other, just a sort of short thanks but I'll be OK sort of thing. That was two years ago and the last I heard from him.

Believe me, I wanted to ask him if all the HORRIBLE things my daughter has told me about him through the years were true, but of course, I'm not going there. When she was telling me these things, I was worried about her and the kids, but now that I know how she will lie about people, I am wondering if thsoe things she told me about her husband were even true. I hope not. But that's something the two of them are just going to have to work out.

Unfortunately I don't have any family who lives close by. Both my brothers live out of state, so does my other daughter, one son lives overseas and the other lives three hours south of me, and four hours south of her, so there's that. My aunt (her great aunt, who has always loved all my kids and grandkids and who is a very youthful 68 or so) has tried several times to coordinate get togethers with my daughter at her house but my daughter simply never calls her back or contacts her in any way so that's fallen through (she lives two hours from me and an hour from my daughter).

I have already approached my daughter (more than once) and apologized for burdening my children with an abusive father and a broken home - and I meant that apology sincerely. I have owned it. But I can't change the past. I can't make that up to them - all I can do is accept my responsibility and ask them to forgive me and move forward. Apparently she isn't going to forgive me. And yet she still chases after her abusive father for attention and validation, which he rarely even acknowledges, from a distance (he lives many hours and states away) and here I am, an hour away from her, absolutely YEARNING for a relationship with her family - but only a respectful one, not one where I grovel and take ridicule and verbal abuse just to be able to spend a little bit of time with grandkids, only to be ridiculed (sometimes to my face!) and treated like a leper.

It just really seems hopeless.
 
Old 07-22-2018, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
40,879 posts, read 32,642,286 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobspez View Post
When someone responds to black lives matter with all lives matter, they are singing from the Fox news hymn book. You are marginalizing her concerns about unarmed black people being killed by trigger happy cops. If you can't be on her side on that issue your daughter sees you as a racist and a hypocrite. In her mind you are toxic and she doesn't want you influencing her kids. In truth, it seems to her that your politics is more important to you than she and her kids are. It's like when soeone talks about the haulocaust and you say well, the Nazi's had some good points in their favor too. If you want to win her back put on a black lives matter t-shirt and ask if you can march in a protest with her and the kids. I doubt if any of this is about skin color for her. Lots of white people are at those rallies and protests.
I think I clarified that I only responded to that once or twice at best that way - because actually I am a pretty active advocate AGAINST racism, and in fact made my position on various cases (in defense of the person of color) very clear many times over. But I am not going to pretend that racism only goes one way. I'm going to call it when I see it, and I see it coming from many different directions.

I have in fact, been very vocal and supportive of (and am speaking at) a local movement and meetings to change the name of the local high school from Robert E Lee High School to some name that is not divisive. I have marched in local MLK Day parades, arm in arm with people of all different skin tones, I've been a part of a multicultural, multireligious, multiracial unity group locally for many many years. I am not "singing from the Fox News Hymn Book" though if you wanted to characterize me in that manner, I guess you could since I did say once or twice, before I even knew it was a divisive phrase, that "all lives matter." BECAUSE THEY DO. Sorry that phrase has been misused, but to say that it's along the same lines of denying the racism of the Nazi party is going a bit too far for me. That being said, I don't use that phrase anymore because I am not into even unintentionally offending other people.

It's all about skin color for my daughter. All about skin color. You should hear her dad rant and rave against white people. It's disgusting. She completely ignores that whole part of her ancestry, and that of her kids. The ironic thing is, her kids do not look "black." They look multiracial - in fact, they look Hispanic and Italian, much like their dad if you want to know the truth. She only focuses on African American issues, culture, etc. I don't understand it. It's like she's trying to purge "white influence" from their lives.

I did not raise my kids this way - I taught them to study and appreciate all different sorts of cultures and not give any one culture any sort of "superior" status. It's appalling to me.
 
Old 07-22-2018, 12:48 PM
 
Location: too far from the sea
17,975 posts, read 17,131,123 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobspez View Post
When someone responds to black lives matter with all lives matter, they are singing from the Fox news hymn book. You are marginalizing her concerns about unarmed black people being killed by trigger happy cops. If you can't be on her side on that issue your daughter sees you as a racist and a hypocrite. In her mind you are toxic and she doesn't want you influencing her kids. In truth, it seems to her that your politics is more important to you than she and her kids are. It's like when soeone talks about the haulocaust and you say well, the Nazi's had some good points in their favor too. If you want to win her back put on a black lives matter t-shirt and ask if you can march in a protest with her and the kids. I doubt if any of this is about skin color for her. Lots of white people are at those rallies and protests.
^^^This. Although I've just skimmed this thread, if she is identifying as being black and you want to get along with her, you should get beyond the politics and go along with her ideas. Don't argue with her ideas.

If she says black lives matter, you agree that black lives matter. She's having a hard time. She's confused and trying to find her identity. Don't apologize about her father, especially if she kind of idolizes him. Just go along with what she believes, or at least as much as you can. Black lives matter means that black lives matter TOO. That's all she's trying to say. Don't argue with that if you want to get along with her.

You may never get the chance but if you do, get the politics out of the way and sympathize with her, take her side. For the time being until she matures and gets a more neutral understanding. So sorry that you are dealing with everything lately. It's really overwhelming. But maybe someday this daughter will come back, grandchildren too. However, you will probably have to push your own beliefs to one side and just listen to her and try to (or pretend to) agree with her, as hard as that may be.
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Old 07-22-2018, 12:51 PM
 
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I don't see how you can insist on any condition of a relationship that you want and the other party does not.

As far as armchair psychiatrist, you said she 'disappears for months'. Obviously there is something going on there. And there was more detail in your other thread. I didn't diagnose her with anything specific, but that is in the mentally ill arena in some way.

interesting about her father. I assumed her racial identity came from the estranged and abusive ex that she longs for. I'm sad for her that she vies for his attention. It's natural, but I am sad for her. You said it's a mystery to you, but you typed out the why here.
 
Old 07-22-2018, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Geneva, IL
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Originally Posted by jencam View Post
Oh Kathryn. You're not in a position to insist on anything at all. Almost two years of no contact hasn't taught you that, which is pretty astonishing. She is mentally ill. The relationship will always be unequal due to that. She is always going to be more drag than lift, as you like to say.

Also, God only knows how deep the divide runs between y'all, you said you could write a whole book about that, but one glaring thing is she is uber sensitive to anything resembling criticism and you love to criticize. Or 'help' as you see it. You still can't leave your mother's hair alone, and she is literally demented.

How can you ever refrain from 'helping' your daughter? And you have to, if you want anything to do with your grandkids. How can you help your relationship? Stop helping in the ways you think are helpful, but come across as criticism.

I honestly do not think you can do that, based on how challenging that is with your mother. I hope to be wrong. But you're not going to get any help with this at all if your focus is going to remain on being right and defending yourself. We could all agree for pages that your daughter is unreasonable and you are totally right to be put out with her, but where will that get you in your endeavor? Nowhere.



How can you not know that? I have an idea. You are too busy feeling offended (which is natural to) to HEAR her. To understand her viewpoint. For some reason you seem to refuse (from what you have written here) to just understand her, it always has to be an argument.

The BLM thing really sticks out to me. From the dang internet I understand you don't say to black activists 'All Lives Matter'. To them this is an affront. You are denying their entire premise that blacks are disproportionate affected by police brutality. And that is undeniable. Why would you argue that with your bi-racial activist daughter of all people? As if anything could be less important than politics between a mother and daughter, who happens to be mentally ill.

You don't have to agree with her to say that you totally understand where she is coming from. Or do you really not? Can you not?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobspez View Post
When someone responds to black lives matter with all lives matter, they are singing from the Fox news hymn book. You are marginalizing her concerns about unarmed black people being killed by trigger happy cops. If you can't be on her side on that issue your daughter sees you as a racist and a hypocrite. In her mind you are toxic and she doesn't want you influencing her kids. In truth, it seems to her that your politics is more important to you than she and her kids are. It's like when soeone talks about the haulocaust and you say well, the Nazi's had some good points in their favor too. If you want to win her back put on a black lives matter t-shirt and ask if you can march in a protest with her and the kids. I doubt if any of this is about skin color for her. Lots of white people are at those rallies and protests.

^ Both excellent posts which the OP will either take great offense at or ignore.

It doesn't matter if a white person is married to a person of color, has a child of a different race, or is the only white person within a million miles, non of these things makes you black. Telling a person of color what to think, how to feel, or how to act is beyond reprehensible. Responding to BLM with "All Lives Matter" just proves that Fox News brainwashing has been very effective.

Kathryn instead of being so defensive in your relationship perhaps it's time to actually listen to her, actually hear her without thinking about your response before digesting.
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