U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Parenting > Grandparents
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 07-22-2018, 08:34 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
40,904 posts, read 32,658,014 times
Reputation: 57027

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by jencam View Post
Too bad. She's grown. She doesn't have to be anything like what you wanted. Accept her or don't. You seem to be the one suffering from it, on here asking what can you do about it. You are unwilling to do what you could, so suck it up. Leave her alone. You can't stand who she has become. You made a choice to also give up the grandkids, and you keep making your case over and over in this thread why that is still your choice. I guess if this thread helps you cement the choice you made as a good one, I guess it's helpful to you.
Wow, this is not an accurate read of the situation.

My four children and my step son run the gamut of lifestyle and political choices, and I'm fine with that. What I am NOT fine with is outright rudeness and rejection. Listen, my daughter has been basically like this "You accept me exactly as I am - rude to you, perpetually hours late, dismissive to your parents, dishonest about you to other people - and if you don't just put up with that - oh, and by the way, you suck because you're white - then I'm outta here, along with my four kids."

I do not accept flat out rude or racist behavior, not from anyone.

But for you to say that I "made a choice to give up the grandkids" is really so far off the mark, I don't even want to take the time to address that. All I wanted was for my daughter to be civil with me. That's all. Not warm, not even surface friendly, just civil. I really don't think that's too much to ask of anyone. I'm not the devil incarnate. I'm not asking her to put up with rude behavior from me. However, I AM white so I guess if that bothers her, there's nothing much I can really do about that.

Last edited by KathrynAragon; 07-22-2018 at 09:03 PM..

 
Old 07-22-2018, 08:36 PM
 
1,481 posts, read 591,958 times
Reputation: 3764
What I don't understand is you saying "my race". It's her race too. I know plenty of children who have rejected one or both parents for no good reason. It happens in many families. At some point that child doesn't want to have a relationship with one or both parents. In some cases the parents cut off a child in that way. I can't think of any familes with more than one child where at least one of the siblings doesn't cut off another sibling. Sometimes it works it's way back to normal after a number of years, sometimes it doesn't.

If your community is just now talking about possibly renaming Robert E. Lee High, it must be pretty conservative. It seems to me many people who support Martin Luther King celebrations are proving how unprejudiced they are rather than take the struggle forward into the present. It's a way to pretend we are in a post racial society. In some ways we are, but the criminal justice system isn't one of them. I'm pretty sure if MLK were alive he'd be saying cops shouldn't go uncharged, or if they are charged be acquitted, after killing unarmed black people, and that blacks shouldn't make up 33% of the arrests and 34% of those in prison nationwide, when they are only 12% of the population.

But I would bet that nothing I say will make an impression on you. (After all you couldn't understand how a cop executing an unarmed black person who isn't doing anything threatening to them could be compared to a Gestapo agent executing an unarmed innocent Jew in WWII.) You can't understand what your daughter's husband's experiences have been for him to hate white people. You can't put yourself in their shoes or their heads. You can't let go being the aggrieved innocent party here. Many of us can only view ourselves as having the best of motives and intentions, and of those who oppose us (especially those who were close to us) being totally in the wrong. I'm pretty sure both you and your daughter feel that way, which is why she stopped talking to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
...The thing is, she has blatantly and outright rejected me - me, who I am, my personality, my race, my background, my parents (her grandparents), everything about me....
 
Old 07-22-2018, 08:37 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
40,904 posts, read 32,658,014 times
Reputation: 57027
Thanks to all the people who have PM'd me as well as those who have offered helpful advice. I'm done with this thread, but if anyone wants to continue or offer advice, just PM me. Thanks again.
 
Old 07-22-2018, 08:48 PM
 
Location: Australia
8,011 posts, read 2,713,818 times
Reputation: 38428
So, you're getting PMs from people who presumably support your point of view, but aren't confident enough to say so 'out loud' on this thread? Hmmm. Okay.


And you're done with this thread, that you started, and now only want to hear advice via PM. Did you do this to your daughter too? Did you shut her down when she didn't say what you wanted to hear?
 
Old 07-22-2018, 08:52 PM
 
Location: planet earth
2,895 posts, read 1,017,878 times
Reputation: 6591
The "PM" thing is really shady when you are in the midst of thread YOU started.
 
Old 07-22-2018, 08:57 PM
 
6,013 posts, read 2,697,304 times
Reputation: 5215
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
Thank you. And you're right.


Well, sort of right. What I tried to do with all my kids as they became adults was to transition from a mother/child mode to an adult to adult mode, and it worked well with my other three kids, on differing time lines. At least one of them, I had to specifically spell that out, because he was wanting on one hand to call me and tell me about all sorts of decisions he was making because he was grown, but on the other hand he wanted to call me and get my advice, which he wouldn't take, and he wanted to sort of have me baby him, but also respect him as a man. I finally had to tell him that though I will always adore him, he IS a grown man (he's 32) and he's married, and I respect all that so please don't ask me to switch back and forth between an equal adult, and a doting mother. To his credit, he totally got it and we've been fine ever since. Same with my other two kids.

But not this one. I don't think she has ever seen our relationship as adult to adult, which is sad and it's also limiting, and it's also not how I have seen it. My gosh, she has had a career in the military, she is the mother of four children, one of which is a teenager, she homeschools, she is artistic and talented and smart and beautiful and I am so amazed and proud of the woman she has become - so be a woman, not a rebellious, secretive, ornery teenager.

So for several years, I thought we were fine - I was enjoying calling her up (or having her call me) and discussing recipes, crafts we were doing, beauty tips, grandkid news, what was for dinner, etc. and I thought we were on an adult to adult level. But apparently we weren't, and I wasn't aware of that. I had NO CLUE that she felt strange about that, till the last few months we were still talking, and she made it very clear that she did not want me to vent with her about any stressors in my life. She made that VERY clear. She did not want to hear it, didn't want to hear about my worries about my parents, my challenges with my mentally ill brother who is her uncle, that sort of thing. This was a surprise to me and it was also very unsettling because all this time I had thought she understood me woman to woman, only to find out that she did not want to hear any of this - that I couldn't even discuss, for instance, options for my mom's care with her, because she simply DID NOT WANT TO HEAR IT and would in fact call me a hardass to my other kids, undermine my decisions, etc.

She was absolutely no help (in fact, she has totally abandoned her grandmother) but she felt perfectly justified in calling my own brothers and her siblings and talking about how hard hearted I was, how ruthless, how cold blooded, etc. Heck, she didn't even know any details because I realized she didn't want to hear them so I wasn't telling her anything.

During that time, I felt like I owed answers to my mother and my two brothers - I wasn't going to try to please or placate everyone else, especially since no one else was actually willing to help.

Though everyone else involved, including my brothers, my other kids, my aunts and uncles, everyone, thought I handled my dad's death, estate, my mom's care, etc. beautifully and within the formerly expressed wishes (which were even freaking written down) of both my parents before they became ill, she to this day thinks I was hard hearted, cold, ruthless, etc. I did what had to be done - no one else was stepping up to do it - and I had to be strong and disciplined and methodical about the whole series of events, because NO ONE ELSE WAS GOING TO DO ANY OF IT.

Oh well, water under the bridge I guess.
Here's the thing......that I think you are probably missing.

Your daughter is not a fully formed healthy adult.

She can sometimes pass for that no doubt.

But, mainly she is a wounded child. Abused by her father who should have loved, protected her and given her the foundation to move securely in an adult world.

As of yet, she does not acknowledge that, probably because it would be too painful for her to do so.

She will not acknowledge it and seek help to resolve its impact until it becomes so problematic in her life that she cant tolerate it.

Its not the same as you overcoming or seeking help so you didn't get into a second abusive marriage. At that time, you had the resources/knowledge/wisdom of an adult....even if similarly wounded as her both from your marriage and your own childhood abuse due to a mentally ill mother and a father who left you at her mercy.

In large part, your daughter is stuck in childhood. She wont get help until either her marriage derails, she goes back to work and her anger derails her career, she gets depressed beyond her ability to function, or some similar crisis. There is little you can do about that other than be waiting to support her if that happens.
 
Old 07-22-2018, 09:03 PM
 
11,619 posts, read 5,457,812 times
Reputation: 10991
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
Well, this isn't helpful advice at all, nor is it an accurate read of the situation.

My four children and my step son run the gamut of lifestyle and political choices, and I'm fine with that. What I am NOT fine with is outright rudeness and rejection. Listen, my daughter has been basically like this "You accept me exactly as I am - rude to you, perpetually hours late, dismissive to your parents, dishonest about you to other people - and if you don't just put up with that - oh, and by the way, you suck because you're white - then I'm outta here, along with my four kids."

I do not accept flat out rude or racist behavior, not from anyone.

But for you to say that I "made a choice to give up the grandkids" is really so far off the mark, I don't even want to take the time to address that. All I wanted was for my daughter to be civil with me. That's all. Not warm, not even surface friendly, just civil. I really don't think that's too much to ask of anyone. I'm not the devil incarnate. I'm not asking her to put up with rude behavior from me. However, I AM white so I guess if that bothers her, there's nothing much I can really do about that.
Not directly, but indirectly, yes. The only way to them is through her. That was a package deal you declined. The rest of this post is boiling a huge, complicated problem down to one thing that makes it very neatly all her fault. It doesn't even matter, does it being her fault help you see your grandkids? No, so do you want to see them or not?
 
Old 07-27-2018, 09:00 PM
 
Location: Pacific Northwest
127 posts, read 42,866 times
Reputation: 515
Quote:
Originally Posted by jencam View Post
Oh, boy. Yeah, you don't get it. I am also a middle aged white lady, I lack bi-racial children, but I get it more than you do, which is insane. I have no one I NEED to 'get it' for!

Blacks (and biracial people) are disproportionately affected by police misconduct/brutality. You seriously do sound like FOX news. 'Just don't break the law!' As if everything would then be fine.



I'd have trouble with you saying this to me as a white person, as your half-black activist daughter I would freak out.

Then you go on to reject her entire identity. But you have no idea your role in this. I just.

I'm a black woman and I think the whole "black" vs "all lives" stuff is just a fancy race filled marketed way to box people and push an agenda of hate. It's like the fight over the Colin Kaepernick; people love to fight over the action and how it made them feel when the point was to make a simple but obvious gesture to start conversation on how we can make real changes. Then people made money off continuing the fight and now we don't even care about solving the issue because we're fighting over if people "get it".

And as a future mother of bi-racial children (and a sister, cousin, friend and daughter of ones) I am aware that my child doesn't fit in any "identity" group. They won't have a "race", won't have a pure "black or white" view, and if born in this current political claimant they wouldn't be welcomed from many groups that identify as black (I myself was considered too "white" by individuals who would later go on to build the Seattle chapter of BLM). Being bi-racial is hard, and I would argue that your statement that OP was regretting her daughters identity is totally playing into the race game both sides of the BLM argument fall into. Her daughters identity is just as much her white heritage and the people who are part of that. Rejecting it is not only rejecting a major part of herself, it's ignoring the fact that many black individuals are a collection of white, Hispanic, and native ancestry. You don't pick an identity, you are a person and race has nothing to do about how you should behave and treat family.

This is very common and while it's normal for an "identity" crisis for bi-racial individuals; it's not healthy to pick one "race" over another and base your "identity" purely on what you believe that identity is expected to behave like. Her daughter is dealing with her race on her own which is hard and can lead to self loathing (which it seems she's already doing with her rejection of her maternal race.) and needs counseling. There's nothing wrong with feeling like you don't belong and most people her age go through this in some way or another. But BLM or any other politicized group is not who I would be turning to in finding that identity or helping me learn what I am as a person. And seeking out a group to copy is only going to end with one copying the pragmatic and one sided views which have no deep relation to ones own self and their world.
 
Old 07-28-2018, 03:54 PM
 
11,619 posts, read 5,457,812 times
Reputation: 10991
I am not following you. I am not trying to get into any racial issues. The problem presented here is the daughter - how she identifies racially, and good or bad, right or wrong, she is an adult woman and has chosen to heavily align with the principles of BLM.
 
Old 07-28-2018, 10:53 PM
 
922 posts, read 563,100 times
Reputation: 1478
Come on America.
Families torn over BIRACIAL kids choosing one culture to identify with over the other? So ridiculous. Something tells me this thread wouldn't exist if the daughter chose to live and identify as white and did little to pursue her black identity.

When a person is born into two cultures one tends to win over. That’s just a fact. If that person decided to pursue the other contributing culture, whether they were ‘raised with it’ or not... it should be respected and viewed as normal. Because (in this case) they are not black OR white; they are black AND white. And since none of us have skin color that is actually black or white these are CULTURAL identities. It is very hard to stradle two cultures so most people choose one. Not a huge deal. The OP’s constant reference to this as rejection based on her skin color/race minimizes the issue.

OP; your daughter, in your own words wants to connect with her dad. I see no better way for her to do that than to connect more with his culture especially if it is something she got little exposure to as a child. Its not something you should take personal offense to. Her dad is not ‘winning’. People raise Christian children who then convert to Judaism, Islam or Atheism- every day. I have never met a parent that saw that child’s rejection of their upbringing as a personal rejection of the parent. It may be - but it is more likely that the other (culture, religion, etc) has some allure, novelty or enigma to them. It fills a deep, often insurmountable void. People dont just reject their upbringing all willy nilly. It goes against instinct. There is typically some amount of self-preservation in play. It is imperative to respect that change and find a way to live with it or risk.... well-getting cut off.

People who seek to make such a radical change - for whatever reason- are usually coming from a place of deep negative feelings about their upbringing. Something about it left a void. If i were you; thats the question I’d be grappling with. What that void was for your daughter and how best you can learn to live with her fix for it. You missed your opportunity to fill it so that is not an option.

You are spending years being hurt and offended by surface issues ( skin color, politics, manners etc) when the real issue here is that a little girl who had a difficult childhood on your watch-that she was powerless to do anything about- become an adult and realized she was no longer powerless. When she did decide what that new-not-powerless identity is; she was met with misunderstanding, drama, friction and rejection- only this time she has the power to remove herself from it.

So here we are. When she’s ready for you to be part of her narrative again- she may let you know. Until then, putting things away for the grandkids may be a good idea. Let her be. When she’s ready, she’ll reach out. If she never does- nothing you were going to do would change that outcome.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Parenting > Grandparents
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top