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Old 07-28-2018, 11:14 PM
 
Location: TX
255 posts, read 87,025 times
Reputation: 608

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I would be very concerned that she's distancing herself from the community like that..and living this fantasy cosplay life. Good for you for not taking sides on the BLM craze...
Unfortunately You are used to your daughters crazy behavior. Just keep yourself in the loop as much as possible.

 
Old 07-29-2018, 12:01 AM
 
13,369 posts, read 6,608,031 times
Reputation: 12823
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLDSoon View Post
the real issue here is that a little girl who had a difficult childhood on your watch-that she was powerless to do anything about- become an adult and realized she was no longer powerless. When she did decide what that new-not-powerless identity is; she was met with misunderstanding, drama, friction and rejection- only this time she has the power to remove herself from it.
This.
 
Old 08-02-2018, 05:35 PM
 
29,965 posts, read 47,156,619 times
Reputation: 15874
Quote:
Originally Posted by germaine2626 View Post
Good points.

While, it is difficult I would continue to send cards and letters to your grandchildren and daughter. But, I suspect that the cards/letters are not being given to your grandchildren and I also suspect that your daughter is telling them terrible lies about you and the rest of the family. You may have to wait until the grandchildren are 18 and they move away from home (if they ever are allowed to do that) to try to reconnect with them.

Kathryn, does your daughter have contact with anyone in the family? One of her brothers? Or an aunt or uncle? Or a cousin? Or is she completely cut of from everyone?
Could your daughter have sustained a physical injury in the military--
Was she overseas in a combat area, for example, and maybe has PTSD or other long-term physical injury damage? Concussions can cause brain damage/brain bleeds than can cause personality changes and from what I read the military is more likely to discharge someone w/that problem than keep them onboard and try to help them get medical care...
 
Old 08-02-2018, 06:07 PM
 
Location: here
24,839 posts, read 29,984,374 times
Reputation: 32387
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
I think I clarified that I only responded to that once or twice at best that way - because actually I am a pretty active advocate AGAINST racism, and in fact made my position on various cases (in defense of the person of color) very clear many times over. But I am not going to pretend that racism only goes one way. I'm going to call it when I see it, and I see it coming from many different directions.

I have in fact, been very vocal and supportive of (and am speaking at) a local movement and meetings to change the name of the local high school from Robert E Lee High School to some name that is not divisive. I have marched in local MLK Day parades, arm in arm with people of all different skin tones, I've been a part of a multicultural, multireligious, multiracial unity group locally for many many years. I am not "singing from the Fox News Hymn Book" though if you wanted to characterize me in that manner, I guess you could since I did say once or twice, before I even knew it was a divisive phrase, that "all lives matter." BECAUSE THEY DO. Sorry that phrase has been misused, but to say that it's along the same lines of denying the racism of the Nazi party is going a bit too far for me. That being said, I don't use that phrase anymore because I am not into even unintentionally offending other people.

It's all about skin color for my daughter. All about skin color. You should hear her dad rant and rave against white people. It's disgusting. She completely ignores that whole part of her ancestry, and that of her kids. The ironic thing is, her kids do not look "black." They look multiracial - in fact, they look Hispanic and Italian, much like their dad if you want to know the truth. She only focuses on African American issues, culture, etc. I don't understand it. It's like she's trying to purge "white influence" from their lives.

I did not raise my kids this way - I taught them to study and appreciate all different sorts of cultures and not give any one culture any sort of "superior" status. It's appalling to me.
I'm guessing that, because your daughter's family are people of color, she has become more aware of the institutional racism that permeates the American culture. You don't get it. You don't see color. That's an old school way to say "see, I'm not racist." It ignores the beauty in our muti-racial society, and it ignores the fact that people of color are marginalized. We are not all the same. We are different colors, and it makes a difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginge McFantaPants View Post
But did you talk to her about the “all lives matter” incident, and acknowledge that you weren’t aware of the connotations when you said it? Because the phrase is purposefully used by whites to marginalize the BLM movement, and attempt to shut down discussion; I believe that wasn’t your intention, but it did just that.
yes

Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
I agree with you totally and I don't even want to talk about politics with her. This is a new bent of hers, though - a new direction she's going (well it was two years ago) and I never would have said anything to offend her if I had known she was starting to go down this road. Up till a few months before she cut me off, we could openly discuss all sorts of topics and I didn't realize she was in disagreement with me, if she even was at that point.

I think if she ever does come back to me, I am just going to have to say "I love you for who you are, every bit of you, and I think we shouldn't talk about politics - let's just focus on things we both love, like art and history and that sort of thing."

The thing is, she has blatantly and outright rejected me - me, who I am, my personality, my race, my background, my parents (her grandparents), everything about me. That's hard to swallow. Her complete cut off makes me feel like she must actually and actively dislike me - a lot. Well, wait, she's told me she doesn't like me at all! Honestly, that really hurts. It's hard to get past because it makes me feel awkward and constrained around her, self conscious and weird.

Oh well, I may never even have to worry about that again anyway. I just hope that the grandkids will contact me one day.
It doesn't matter that you wouldn't say it now. You said it then. She knows how you feel. My in-laws say things that are offensive about, for example, the LGBTQ community. Well, now there is a recently out LGBTQ individual in the family. Even if they stop saying offensive things, we still know what they think and how they feel. Being polite enough not to say it in certain company now doesn't help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
I hardly ever even SAID "all lives matter." It was more an overall attitude I had and still have - that racism and unfair advantage and unequal or racist uses of power are simply wrong. I don't care what color someone is who utilizes racist behavior. So no, I don't cut any one particular group more or less slack. Don't be racist. Don't break the law. Don't abuse your power. It's not that hard to figure out, if one isn't racist or doesn't boil everything down to skin color.

As for my daughter's great traits, I have bragged about those to her, to other people, etc for years, decades even. I think she is a very beautiful, talented, intelligent, artistic, sensitive woman, among other good traits. I've built her up for decades. I am flat out MAD at her now, so I'm not focusing on all that good stuff, but I've done so in the past till I was blue in the face.

It's not enough though, because I can never really understand her, since I'm white and she's not. Her words and actions, not mine. She absolutely invalidates me based on my skin color and that's it - I'm a middle aged, middle class white woman who can never understand her struggle, so I'm invalidated. Boom.

It's depressing.
This country is full of clueless white people. You are one of them. You aren't listening. You aren't trying to learn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jencam View Post
Oh, boy. Yeah, you don't get it. I am also a middle aged white lady, I lack bi-racial children, but I get it more than you do, which is insane. I have no one I NEED to 'get it' for!

Blacks (and biracial people) are disproportionately affected by police misconduct/brutality. You seriously do sound like FOX news. 'Just don't break the law!' As if everything would then be fine.



I'd have trouble with you saying this to me as a white person, as your half-black activist daughter I would freak out.

Then you go on to reject her entire identity. But you have no idea your role in this. I just.
yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
I am sure that's part of it, which I find to be incredibly ironic since I feel that her behavior is very racist. I mean, very much so. She seems to be teaching her children that white folks are oppressors, racists, etc. by their very nature. I didn't raise her to think this way.
We are. Maybe not you or I as individuals, but as a group, yes we are.

What can you do? Don't show up unannounced at their house. Try to open your mind and listen to what people of color are saying. Don't get defensive and shut down. Just listen.
 
Old 08-02-2018, 06:57 PM
 
Location: interior Alaska
4,436 posts, read 3,289,632 times
Reputation: 13591
I'm going to suggest a reading list to you for three reasons. One, I hope it will help you see your daughter's perspective on race, and to get more understanding of the experience of people of color in the US. (I understand that you're hurt by the impression that your daughter has rejected her "white half," but to be fair, white America rejected mixed race people as being white long before your daughter came along. Despite her white European heritage and upbringing she now must navigate the world as a person of color because that's what America sees.) Two, by familiarizing yourself with the language and concepts, I hope you'll be able to communicate more effectively with your daughter. And three, just doing the reading itself, putting in the time, I think shows willing and may contribute to healing.

I'm not saying every page of every book in this list should be taken for Gospel, but they're all interesting and food for thought. I hope you will read some, and will do so with an open mind rather than a debating one. I stuck just to non-fiction, but hey, if you like novels or poetry that's another place you could dive into.

So You Want to Talk About Race by Ijeoma Oluo
The New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander
Slavery by Another Name by Douglas Blackmon
Between the World and Me by Ta-Nehisi Coates
Colorblind by Tim Wise
White Like Me by Tim Wise
Stamped from the Beginning by Ibram X. Kendi
Why Are All The Black Kids Sitting Together in the Cafeteria? by Beverly Tatum
Young, Gifted and Black by Perry, Steele and Hilliard
Racism Without Racists by Eduardo Bonilla-Silva
Waking Up White by Debby Iriving
Ain't I a Woman by bell hooks
Race Matters by Cornel West
White Rage by Carol Anderson
Choke Hole by Paul Butler
The Invention of the White Race by Theodore Allen (two volumes)

And then after I typed that all up, I found this long list, so I'll just drop the link. I don't recognize all the titles, but the ones that I do are quality:
https://www.left-bank.com/sites/left...g%20List_0.pdf

Last edited by Frostnip; 08-02-2018 at 07:06 PM..
 
Old 08-02-2018, 08:04 PM
 
13,369 posts, read 6,608,031 times
Reputation: 12823
Quote:
I think if she ever does come back to me, I am just going to have to say "I love you for who you are, every bit of you, and I think we shouldn't talk about politics - let's just focus on things we both love, like art and history and that sort of thing."
I LOVE the bolded. LOVE. Not the rest though. That is controlling her again. Telling her what she can't talk about. And being her big passion, that is unreasonable. Was my ultra-liberal democrat mother interested in or in agreement with all things Ron Paul? NO, she was not. But she listened because for a while that was a BIG THING with me.

You aren't compromising your principles to see the world from her POV, you don't have to adopt her POV for yourself, but you can give it validity. You can ask questions on parts you don't understand at all. And say thank you for explaining that to me. I see where you are coming from.

I could say that genuinely to a serial killer explaining his motives. I would vehemently disagree, obviously, but I could see his POV. I can certainly do that for anyone I care about!
 
Old 08-05-2018, 08:22 PM
 
Location: Southwest Washington State
21,578 posts, read 14,193,916 times
Reputation: 30198
I’ve read all the posts, and KA I do believe you are in terrible emotional pain, and my heart goes out to you.

I do not have advice to give you, but I DO have a suggestion. You’ve done counseling and I am impressed that you have tried diligently for personal insight. Now, I want to suggest that you find an African American counselor. You are struggling with at least two issues I think: a daughter has some mental illness and this daughter is refusing to acknowledge her white “half.”

I think it would be good for you to speak to someone who is credentialed, and who lives the sort of life your daughter does in the U.S., as an African American woman. Because that is the life she lives.

I do agree that you can only control your own thoughts and actions. What I want for you is a way to feel less pain about your situation.

I like Germaine’s idea about putting money aside for them at milestone occasions.

I am so sorry you are in so much psychic pain.
 
Old 08-06-2018, 06:35 AM
 
Location: Where rhotic consonants are either absent or intrusive
8,890 posts, read 5,198,534 times
Reputation: 14579
OP, all I can suggest is to keep reaching out, even if it’s just by sending holiday and birthday cards. You just never know when it will reach her at a time when she’ll be ready to mend fences.
 
Old 08-08-2018, 06:35 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
44,338 posts, read 35,864,624 times
Reputation: 62697
Quote:
Originally Posted by silibran View Post
I’ve read all the posts, and KA I do believe you are in terrible emotional pain, and my heart goes out to you.

I do not have advice to give you, but I DO have a suggestion. You’ve done counseling and I am impressed that you have tried diligently for personal insight. Now, I want to suggest that you find an African American counselor. You are struggling with at least two issues I think: a daughter has some mental illness and this daughter is refusing to acknowledge her white “half.”

I think it would be good for you to speak to someone who is credentialed, and who lives the sort of life your daughter does in the U.S., as an African American woman. Because that is the life she lives.

I do agree that you can only control your own thoughts and actions. What I want for you is a way to feel less pain about your situation.

I like Germaine’s idea about putting money aside for them at milestone occasions.

I am so sorry you are in so much psychic pain.
Couldn't rep you but thank you for your insight. That's a good idea about an AA counselor. I will definitely look into that as well as checking out some of the books that another poster suggested.
 
Old 08-08-2018, 06:37 AM
 
Location: interior Alaska
4,436 posts, read 3,289,632 times
Reputation: 13591
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
Couldn't rep you but thank you for your insight. That's a good idea about an AA counselor. I will definitely look into that as well as checking out some of the books that another poster suggested.
I hope it goes well
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