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OK well we have talked a lot about boundaries. What about the daughter's? She has made hers clear, has she not?
Certainly. But she can't expect to set those boundaries without facing any negative repercussions. That's all part of setting boundaries.
And as KaraG points out in her post, children are individual persons in their own right. They are not the property of their parents, parents do not control their children's thoughts and feelings, and while KA's daughter may be able to keep her children from visiting their dying great grandma before she passes and from contacting KA before they reach the age of majority, after they reach age 18 what they decide to feel and do is 100% up to them. And by barring them from ALL contact with their grandmother and great grandmother, KA's daughter may be sowing seeds of future resentment (or even estrangement) on the part of her own children. Again, that's an inevitable risk arising from the course of action she's chosen.
And we have come full circle. KA is facing the consequences of her boundary setting, as I pointed out before.
I've read your point of translation in previous post. And while your partial opinion carries truth, I'd suggest to broaden your fact finding in so much as fair balance.
I can identify with KA as a loving grandparent. I can identify with the one daughter who in essence (distorted or not) feels invalidated by a parent. KA though willing admits (self aware) that she is pragmatic in resolve first and deal with the emotions later. If at all. She is by far an astute take the bull by the horns. It's her achilies heal. Does well on the surface yet internally creates more problems down the road for this one adult child. I do think KA wants to find balance and tbf this daughter needs to have a rude awakening. KA is not going to be the touchy Feely mom who validates this daughter. She is going to be a strong resource when the chips are down .That's KA's forte.
I can respect that attribute.
Perhaps each are holding on to their principles in the hopes the other will concede. Funny how at the end of the day we are really more alike then different.
There is no fairness or unfairness in facts. The reality is this daughter has laid down the boundary of 'Leave me completely alone'. What rude awakening? Daughter is not seeking anything to be denied in a 'rude awakening'. That already happened. The daughter was rudely awakened and had two options: change herself to fit in Mom's boundaries, or get out so as not to cross boundaries. She chose to get out. Mom is now struggling with the daughter choosing option B over A. That is the consequence we all have to consider when we draw lines in the sand, and draw them carefully.
I don't think my personal boundaries are out of line. They are basically "Don't be rude." This translates into "Don't come over to my house two hours late on a family holiday and then when you get here, don't be blatantly rude to me (and others) and then pitch a screaming conniption fit, upsetting all the children (8 to be exact) and my sick mother who just lost her husband of 57 years."
Also covered under "Don't be rude" is "Don't cash check after check from your grandmother and never acknowledge her in any way." And "Don't spread blatant lies about me to your siblings and my brothers and try actively to turn people against me, anytime but especially right after I lose my dad and inherit my mother who needs 24/7 supervision."
Her personal boundaries are "Don't be white."
I get that she doesn't like white people and that's her perogative. It still makes me very sad to be cut off from my daughter and my grandchildren. I'm trying to keep a link to those kids open.
Their mother is keeping them away from her side of the family. They have no ability to fulfill any obligation.
The daughter does have the ability and obligation given the history with her grandparents. And it's not out of the ordinary for KA to write about their g-grandmother's health.
The daughter does have the ability and obligation given the history with her grandparents. And it's not out of the ordinary for KA to write about their g-grandmother's health.
What I said was the young children have no method of fulfilling any obligation.
We'll have to agree to disagree about the daughter having an obligation. Just because she lives close by? Geography places more burden on her?
How often do her siblings call their grandmother? They can call from wherever they are.
I don't think my personal boundaries are out of line. They are basically "Don't be rude." This translates into "Don't come over to my house two hours late on a family holiday and then when you get here, don't be blatantly rude to me (and others) and then pitch a screaming conniption fit, upsetting all the children (8 to be exact) and my sick mother who just lost her husband of 57 years."
Also covered under "Don't be rude" is "Don't cash check after check from your grandmother and never acknowledge her in any way." And "Don't spread blatant lies about me to your siblings and my brothers and try actively to turn people against me, anytime but especially right after I lose my dad and inherit my mother who needs 24/7 supervision."
Her personal boundaries are "Don't be white."
I get that she doesn't like white people and that's her perogative. It still makes me very sad to be cut off from my daughter and my grandchildren. I'm trying to keep a link to those kids open.
Have you ever asked your daughter why she has radicalized so much? Do your other kids have any thoughts about why or what did it? Her husband?
"You get" that she doesn't like white people... I don't. Her mother is white. Her (supposedly) beloved grandparents are white. Her kids are ¼ white. SHE is ½ white. Someone or something radicalized your daughter. She is as bad as the radicals on the other side she apparently hates so much. She just doesn't see it. Radicals are radicals, doesn't matter what party or what affiliation. They are all equally toxic and intolerant imo.
It's not healthy that she thinks like this and it's not healthy she can't even discuss it with you. I'd be worried about your grandkids, too, if I were you. Yes, she can feel how she wants, it is her prerogative and I don't disagree there. Her beliefs may not make sense and be, frankly, stupid especially considering where she comes from, but you can't snap your fingers and change someone. But it's really not healthy for her kids to grow up with someone who thinks the way she apparently does.
That isn't all you want, though. You also want, as you just stated above, some emotional help for yourself and that is perfectly understandable, but this daughter has said directly she cannot be of help. Specifically in the exact way you want it, she directly said 'Do not talk to me about anything going on with your parents'. But you never let up. You're putting the word now through her children, she must be like 'omg, am I not speaking English? What is happening?'
KA, you want a lot, you want the grandkids, her emotional support even if that is just time spent with you, but then if you get her back, you have all these demands on her behavior. It doesn't make any sense. Why does someone who doesn't want anything to do with you suddenly want you so much as to start changing their behavior?
When I don't want to be around someone, if they did manipulate me to with the illness of another, and I dutifully came around, the last thing I would be thinking is how I can be more attractive to this person I want nothing to do with.
I am totally lost. This is like when I was breaking up with a guy and he was like 'if you would just change, we wouldn't have to break up'. Huh? How is that a good deal for me? I wanted to be with someone who liked me THE WAY I AM.
You say all the time that grown children don't OWE their parents ANYTHING when you are talking about yourself or other posters on here struggling with their parent's needs, but here you are talking about all you have done for this daughter and what she owes you and your mother.
Do you have children and grandchildren? Because you sound rather clueless about these relationships.
If both people in a relationship don't want change at all, the relationship will never work. People try to change because they want to please their spouse and make the relationship work. If there are problems and no one wants to change an iota, the relationship is doomed. It's all about comprising for the good of the relationship. No one will ever love everything about another person. But you must know that.
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