What should I do about these grandkids? Supposedly I'm toxic so my daughter has cut me out of their lives. (parents, old)
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Just to be clear, I didn't raise my kids in a color blind mode. I raised them in a decidedly multicultural mode - celebrating many cultures, including but not limited to their own backgrounds. We celebrated diversity in our household. We live in one of the most diverse states in the US and that was not by accident. We were a military family when my kids were growing up and that is a DEFINITELY multicultural upbringing. We even lived overseas for awhile and I made it a point to travel with them extensively.
Look, I know I'm not a perfect person but my gosh, I tried like heck to make sure that my kids and grandkids know how much I value people of every skin tone, culture, etc. I can't help it that I'm not as brown as they are.
My ideas about race are "outdated?" Now I'm not updated enough to be able to relate to my own daughter? I am not a prejudiced person. I do not insist on living in a color blind world. I stand up quite vocally against racism or judging anyone on the color of their skin. I adore my multiracial family. I chose to marry a man of AA ancestry and I chose to have four children with this man. I am not the enemy!
You have equated her experiences as a black woman, her political views, etc. to being radicalized. That is literally some of the most dismissive language I have ever heard used to discount someone’s identity.
I never used the term “outdated” but it is clear from just your own side of things that your daughter feels you do not support her. I can see you need people to tell you that she is wrong and you are right. How’s being right working out for you? For your grandkids? Maybe you should focus on understanding how she feels instead of being right.
and it isn't unreasonable to expect someone to be respectful in one's own home and to expect your child to be at least courteous to one's grandparents who has sent her money by at least acknowledge it.
There is nothing wrong with expecting that, no, but how does one enforce it? What can OP do about? Stop speaking to the daughter until she does it? Daughter doesn't want to talk to her, that won't work. Stop doing things for her? Daughter doesn't want anything from her. Send her to jail? It isn't a crime. Ground her? She is an adult. Condemn her verbally? That has been done. Express disapproval? That has been done. Express how much the grandmother misses her? That has been done. Express how sick the Mom is and might die soon? That has been done.
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
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Where did she claim that her daughter was a terrorist?
I agree KA never said the daughter was a terrorist. It was another poster that used the term 'radicalized' which bring 'terrorist' to mind.
Let your daughter come full-circle on her own time & save your energy for those grandkids. I would go there & ask nicely to see them. I would go every 2 weeks, on the same day & at the same time: I would wave to them if they looked out the windows but I would leave if & when I was asked to. I would also give her 24 hrs notice prior to coming.
Maybe; your daughter will feel more comfortable if she knows that she’s in charge & that there won’t be a fight. Or not ... but at least the kids will remember that Grandma never quit. I would rather they see me show up 50 times & be thrown out 50 times, on my rear; than to just not ever see me show up.
I’ve been your daughter & Ive been your grandchildren. My parents knew that when I started to self-isolate that meant that I was cycling into some really bad stuff. When I go down; I go down like a flaming meteor. They had seen it before & they had to make & did make; the decision to be the safety net for my children.
Anyone who has seen my posting history knows how highly I speak of my parents. Would you believe that at one point; my parents challenged me in court for custody of my own kids? Not only that but that they won visitation rights?
It was a very disruptive time for everybody in the family but my kids knew that they were worth so much that Grandma & Grandpa; would never quit. Every night; Grandma & Grandpa were like the lighthouse that would shine for miles, showing the way out of the storm..
Certainly, there is some way for you to be that lighthouse.
Additionally; my mother was estranged from her family for 11 years because of my father’s ethnicity & religion. She was disowned by her parents & my sister & I were “dead to them” by default after we were born. My birth announcement & baby pictures were never opened but instead were “Returned to sender”. Phone calls were disconnected. Total no-contact for over a decade.
It wasn’t until my grandma had heard from one of my mom’s cousins that my mom was in the hospital following emergency surgery (that darned ulcer surgery) that the two sides of my family every met.
This was just before Christmas & they actually invited us up for the Christmas holiday. I remember feeling both awkward & terrified: “Do they ... hate me? Hate my dad & my sister?” but on Christmas morning there were literal piles of gifts under the tree for my sister & I.
Some of them were a curiosity: I was 10 years old ... Why did they get me one of those red PlaySkool
barns for pre-schoolers that said: “Moooo!” when you open the door?
I realized what that meant a few years ago while shopping for my 4-year old grandsons birthday party: I realized that my grandma had gone shopping every Christmas time for us since the day we were born. Every year, when her daughter & grandchildren were MIA; the gifts were taken to basement & stored for the future.
I know that you know you couldn’t live with yourself if you did ... nothing. I also know that you are hesitating because for most of your life; it’s been you that had to hold your own & draw those boundaries. This would probably be the very last thing you would ever be comfortable with.
So all you can do is to do the right thing, a day at a time. Think about it: Have you ever been to a funeral & heard someone step up to remember the deceased & sniffle “She will always be remembered for how well she respected boundaries ...” Besides, in 20 years, would you rather have a grandkid come visit you & ask: “Grandma? Why did you & my mom have an argument in our front yard, every other Tuesday at 3 pm?” Or: Grandma? Where were you?”
You have equated her experiences as a black woman, her political views, etc. to being radicalized. That is literally some of the most dismissive language I have ever heard used to discount someone’s identity.
I never used the term “outdated” but it is clear from just your own side of things that your daughter feels you do not support her. I can see you need people to tell you that she is wrong and you are right. How’s being right working out for you? For your grandkids? Maybe you should focus on understanding how she feels instead of being right.
Hey. I have NOT equated her experiences as a woman of color as "being radicalized." I have equated her new absolute dismissal and even hatred of white people as being radicalized. I have equated this complete change, from someone who was in the military and pretty uninterested in politics but who leaned toward conservative to someone who is consumed with race and spewing divisive racial diatribe and focusing ONLY on racial sorts of issues, to becoming radical in her overall outlook on life. This has been a radical change. This does not mean I am equating her experiences as a woman of color as being radicalized. Big difference in fact. Huge difference.
I get that my daughter feels I do not support her - I don't support racism and judging people by the color of their skin. I don't support totally cutting off a loving grandmother/great grandmother. I don't support being unbelievably rude to other people. Sorry - I will never support that. If that means I'm "focused on being right" then gosh, I just don't know what else to do.
As for "understanding how she feels" I am telling you, I have spent hours at a time with her discussing her feelings. I HAVE listened to her - when she was talking to me. I have supported her emotionally as well as financially - for instance, my husband and I threw ourselves totally into supporting her and her family's desire to get out of the military and return to civilian life - I've detailed how much effort I put into all that, and during a very hard time in my life as our elderly parents were actively dying one right after the other.
I don't understand your snark "How's being right working out for you? For your grandkids?" Oh my gosh. Look here, I AM being treated terribly by my daughter, who is also keeping the grandkids away from me, and from my mother who has probably just weeks left on this earth. For months during her gradual sort of melt down, as she became more and more angry and distant, I accommodated her moods, even her rude behavior - against the advice of my husband and other family members who were appalled by her behavior. I made excuses for it, I tried talking with her and reaching out and all that - to no avail. It was like nothing I did meant anything positive and she became more and more critical of me, even right to my face, to the point that I felt I couldn't say anything without somehow offending her - heck, even offering her a stupid mixer offended her!
Let your daughter come full-circle on her own time & save your energy for those grandkids. I would go there & ask nicely to see them. I would go every 2 weeks, on the same day & at the same time: I would wave to them if they looked out the windows but I would leave if & when I was asked to. I would also give her 24 hrs notice prior to coming.
Maybe; your daughter will feel more comfortable if she knows that she’s in charge & that there won’t be a fight. Or not ... but at least the kids will remember that Grandma never quit. I would rather they see me show up 50 times & be thrown out 50 times, on my rear; than to just not ever see me show up.
I’ve been your daughter & Ive been your grandchildren. My parents knew that when I started to self-isolate that meant that I was cycling into some really bad stuff. When I go down; I go down like a flaming meteor. They had seen it before & they had to make & did make; the decision to be the safety net for my children.
Anyone who has seen my posting history knows how highly I speak of my parents. Would you believe that at one point; my parents challenged me in court for custody of my own kids? Not only that but that they won visitation rights?
It was a very disruptive time for everybody in the family but my kids knew that they were worth so much that Grandma & Grandpa; would never quit. Every night; Grandma & Grandpa were like the lighthouse that would shine for miles, showing the way out of the storm..
Certainly, there is some way for you to be that lighthouse.
Additionally; my mother was estranged from her family for 11 years because of my father’s ethnicity & religion. She was disowned by her parents & my sister & I were “dead to them” by default after we were born. My birth announcement & baby pictures were never opened but instead were “Returned to sender”. Phone calls were disconnected. Total no-contact for over a decade.
It wasn’t until my grandma had heard from one of my mom’s cousins that my mom was in the hospital following emergency surgery (that darned ulcer surgery) that the two sides of my family every met.
This was just before Christmas & they actually invited us up for the Christmas holiday. I remember feeling both awkward & terrified: “Do they ... hate me? Hate my dad & my sister?” but on Christmas morning there were literal piles of gifts under the tree for my sister & I.
Some of them were a curiosity: I was 10 years old ... Why did they get me one of those red PlaySkool
barns for pre-schoolers that said: “Moooo!” when you open the door?
I realized what that meant a few years ago while shopping for my 4-year old grandsons birthday party: I realized that my grandma had gone shopping every Christmas time for us since the day we were born. Every year, when her daughter & grandchildren were MIA; the gifts were taken to basement & stored for the future.
I know that you know you couldn’t live with yourself if you did ... nothing. I also know that you are hesitating because for most of your life; it’s been you that had to hold your own & draw those boundaries. This would probably be the very last thing you would ever be comfortable with.
So all you can do is to do the right thing, a day at a time. Think about it: Have you ever been to a funeral & heard someone step up to remember the deceased & sniffle “She will always be remembered for how well she respected boundaries ...” Besides, in 20 years, would you rather have a grandkid come visit you & ask: “Grandma? Why did you & my mom have an argument in our front yard, every other Tuesday at 3 pm?” Or: Grandma? Where were you?”
This is a very interesting post, and THANK YOU for taking the time and effort to describe what happened in your family. Wow.
I probably should go over to their house. I did actually do this one time, with my parents (just a few weeks before my dad died), and my daughter was clearly angry but she did let us see the kids - but this was before the total cut off, it was when she was just being very standoffish but was just refusing to talk with me about why she was so angry. She didn't make a scene in front of the kids, but she did make things uncomfortable and she made it very clear that she hadn't expected us and wanted us to leave quickly. We stayed for about an hour, during which time she disappeared often back into her room - I am sure she was texting someone (probably her husband) but there was no scene other than awkwardness and her being basically silent and visibly angry.
The thing is, this was before the total ostracizing. Since then, she did bring the kids over to my mom's house one time (over a year ago) when she came over to get a trailer full of stuff my mom and I were giving her. Her kids were clearly uncomfortable and actually acting very reserved and literally scared. It was heartbreaking. It was also clear that she had been talking to them about stuff, because they had never been standoffish and shy and nervous around us before. I mean, other than the youngest, these aren't babies.
I haven't gone over there but I've been very tempted to do so. I freely admit - it would make me very nervous to do it. But I may just do it anyway. I have been thinking about it. Hmmm.
I get that my daughter feels I do not support her - I don't support racism and judging people by the color of their skin. I don't support totally cutting off a loving grandmother/great grandmother. I don't support being unbelievably rude to other people. Sorry - I will never support that. If that means I'm "focused on being right" then gosh, I just don't know what else to do.
It is focused on being right. And I agree, you don't know what to do. My Uncle was a racist, but I loved him anyway and I had to overlook it. I don't regret a moment of his time with me. My values are mine, accepting his AS his alone didn't change that at all. You keep trying to control others. The poster who asked ''How is that working for you?' wasn't being snarky. It's obvious by all your posts this isn't working well for you at all.
So, decide already! Your values must be maintained by others is your highest priority, your grand-kids are your highest priority, how your mother is treated is 'the biggest issue', your daughter's well-being is your highest priority. Which is it?
By the way, this is a sign of NPD:
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Your values must be maintained by others is your highest priority.
I say that not to criticize, but as an FYI. You may want to check into that.
We know you don't like her, we got that but please stop lying about her. KA never said it was 100% her daughter's fault.
This is like the 10th time you have repeated this lie. I call things as I see them, as does everyone in 'non-romantic relationship' threads, which is what this is, regardless of what section it was posted in.
All discussion about what to do with the grandkids is centered around the relationship between this mother and daughter. It's even in the title.
As another poster asked, when did the OP take one iota of responsibility in that? There is no relationship on earth where only one person is to blame. If daughter is so insane that that is the rare exception, then OP should be focused on saving the young children.
The vast majority of the posts in this thread have nothing to do with grandkids, but what OP wants for herself and her mother.
I'd strongly recommend the OP talk to a professional counselor for advice or guidance before going to the daughter's house unannounced. I'd do this for the sake of the grandchildren and what is in their best interests.
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