Prostitution should be legalized, taxed, and regulated (independent, solutions, stereotypes)

[EinsteinsGhost]

Originally Posted by itshim

The bottomline is that suggesting the legalization of prostitution is not an extremity is false. Suggesting it should be legalized IS an extremity. You can dress that up as an infringement on your 'consitutional rights' all day.

Personal freedoms may be an extremity to you, it ain't for me. You didn't tell me... Do you consider this to be a conservative mantra: "mind your own business, I will mind my own"? Or, should it... "I will mind your business, but leave me alone when it comes to mine"

Taking phrases out of context while ignoring the remainder of what was actually written makes for terrible debate.

What else did you mean by... " expand an already existing one (the black market)"?

Explain.

Whether you think gay marriage is devient or not is up to you, the fact remains that with the legalization of gay marriages there comes a significant increase in gay marriages and pairings. This is also evident within interracial marriages (neither of which I have any problem with).

And you have a problem with it. Why?

This twisting into a debate about me trying to tell you what to do. For some of you gettin sum trim enthusiasts out there...how bout we legalize beastiality while we're at it just for kicks?

You mean, extremism?

[itshim]

What else did you mean by... " expand an already existing one (the black market)"?

Explain

.

already did, scroll up, read again.

Here's a bonus question, if the market for prostitutoin increases from the black market to the general consumer market with legalization, will the demand and the use of prostitutes increase? Yup. And that's the bottomline.

You mean, extremism?

Now legalizing prostitution isn't an extremity...besides, what if people want to legalize beastiality? What "business" is it of yours?

[hilgi]

Originally Posted by itshim

The next follow up question should be is how many alcoholics are there? How many alcoholic related homicides, manslaughters, rapes and other substance abuse related crimes have there been since its legalization?

That is the follow up question? I thought you were saying black markets thrive after legalization, a good follow up would be to show me the stats of bootleggers, not change the topic as fast as you can.

The key to your question is not how many but what percentage. In many ways things are better now. AA didn't start until AFTER prohibition ended when it became acceptable to seek help. Another reduction was in gang killings and poison alcohol.

Here is a good discussion about prohibition and after. Did Alcohol Use Decrease During Alcohol Prohibition?

[brien51]

Originally Posted by itshim

WHo said anything about extremities? All I've heard are relentless suggestions that 'legalizing' prostitution would simply make it easier to control. I simply took the liberty of taking an extra step and suggested that we could also experimentally legalize murder, rape, and drugs along with prostitution so that those can be easily 'controlled' as well.

.

This comparison is not appropriate since prostitution is an agreement entered into freely between two people. The government has no right to interfere into an agrreement that harms neither party and is entered into freely bewteen the two parties. Murder and rape are violent crimes that occur without the agreement between two people or others involved in those acts. Flawed logic there.

Prostitution is a simple business agreement and the government has no business outlawing it since it doesn't harm either party. In fact the "regulation" would almost ensure disease free women and men who practice the profession and would likely lead to less sickness contracted in these type of transactions. It would also likely result in less prostitutes who rely upon the practice to support drug habits since they would be monitored for good health.

Furthermore, legalizing drugs would lead to less prostitution since drug treatment would be more acceptable and social programs would discourage a woman from using prostitution to support their habits.

The legalizing of both prostitution and drugs would go a long way in keeping otherwise non criminally inclined citizens out of jails, it would keep women from resorting to prostitution to support drug habits, and treat drug abuse as the national health problem it is, rather than creating criminals out of otherwise ordinary citizens in society.

[gaelgirl]

I completely agree with the OP. There is nothing different "morally" between prostitution, gambling or intoxication. However, because sex is soooooo stigmatized in this country and not treated as a natural part of the human experience, the government cannot tax it or regulate it as a legitimate profession.

What is the difference between a person exchanging sex for money and a person taking the last dollar of a gambling addict? There isn't one. One is just more socially accepted. But according to God (if you believe in him), according to the bible (because that's what it usually comes down to here) there is NO difference.

And if our laws conform to these Christian ideals, why penalize one "offense" and not penalize the others?

[Phil306]

A few points for those who want to legalize prostitution:

1. Fine. We'll put the brothel's next to YOUR house. You clean up all the used condoms, hypodermic needles, etc out in the streets. Oh, and don't forget, no place to park, because of the customers. Your kids can't play out in the street now and, the right wing wacko bible thumpers, will be there protesting AND video taping everything.

2. Test the women? Ok. Yeah, right. Many have shown how this won't work. They get tested one a month? Ok, guy A leaves, guy B comes in an infects her. 29 days to go until tested again. What about the 100 guys she infects between now and then? Oh. Safe sex, right? Yeah, ok. Offer a prostitute 20 extra bucks NOT to wear a condom. You'll get your way.

3. It doesn't hurt anyone? Really? How many prostitutes have been raped, murdered? Look at every single serial killer. MANY have targeted prostitutes. Why? The simple fact: No one really cares about them. What about all the wives of these johns who get some STD from prostitutes? MANY are hurt by prostitution; legal or otherwise.

4. Tax it and make money. Ok, great. So now, the oral sex the guy was getting, which cost him $20 bucks, is $100. Why go to your nice brothel, when he can go around the corner, and get the same thing he is getting now, only its even cheaper? These same girls will now offer their services for $10 bucks.

5. What about the girls who can't work in the brothels? They have an STD, etc? They will be back on the streets, working, at reduced rates. Oh, but wait? Why would some guy go to them, and not the "clean" brothel? They are going to them NOW. Why get video taped using a brothel, which costs $100 bucks, when I can get the samething, for $10?

6. Since you won't let the brothel in your neighborhood, and lets face it people: YOU WON'T. Where is it going to be? Let's put it out in the middle of no where. Ok, problem solved, right? Uh, no. Who the heck is going to drive and hour plus, when they can drive 10 mins, to where they are going now?

7. Prostitutes are people too. Yes, ofcourse they are. However, how many of you men are going to date/marry a prostitute? What are you going to do, bring Jane home for Christmas dinner and say, "Mom. Dad. This is Jane. She has sex with strange men for money." For the women who want to befriend them, same Christmas Dinner analogy applies. But, if what they do isn't a bad thing and should be legal, etc, why wouldn't you tell mom and dad?

Legalizing prostitution, on paper, sounds wonderful. It looks good and great. However, when you look at it and really look at it, its truly a bad idea. There are way too many issues, which people do not, in their normal myopic views, look at and discuss.

[markg91359]

Originally Posted by Phil306

A few points for those who want to legalize prostitution:

1. Fine. We'll put the brothel's next to YOUR house. You clean up all the used condoms, hypodermic needles, etc out in the streets. Oh, and don't forget, no place to park, because of the customers. Your kids can't play out in the street now and, the right wing wacko bible thumpers, will be there protesting AND video taping everything.

The point is that when you legalize prostitution you don't see this. Legal brothels would have to enforce standards and the drug addicts would be forced to leave. Used condoms? Its easy to dispose of them in a sanitary way. That happens when you have a licensed staff running things. Parking? The number of clients seen by most brothels wouldn't fill a convenience store parking lot. They don't see whacko Bible Thumpers and protesters in Nevada where there is legalized brothel prostitution.

2. Test the women? Ok. Yeah, right. Many have shown how this won't work. They get tested one a month? Ok, guy A leaves, guy B comes in an infects her. 29 days to go until tested again. What about the 100 guys she infects between now and then? Oh. Safe sex, right? Yeah, ok. Offer a prostitute 20 extra bucks NOT to wear a condom. You'll get your way.

In Nevada, where they have legalized prostitution there has not been one documented case of AIDS that occurred in a legal brothel. Its because when you regulate this activity, the licensees know they will be out of business if they break rules that relate to condom useage. I haven't seen stats on other STDs, but I guarantee you they are low to non-existent.

3. It doesn't hurt anyone? Really? How many prostitutes have been raped, murdered? Look at every single serial killer. MANY have targeted prostitutes. Why? The simple fact: No one really cares about them. What about all the wives of these johns who get some STD from prostitutes? MANY are hurt by prostitution; legal or otherwise.

All the more reason to legalize prostitution and put it in an environment where it can be controlled. Its the people out on the street who are assaulted, robbed, and the victims of violence. Wives and significant others are much less likely to catch an STD from a customer who patronizes a legal, regulated brothel than if the customer visits an illegal street prostitute.

4. Tax it and make money. Ok, great. So now, the oral sex the guy was getting, which cost him $20 bucks, is $100. Why go to your nice brothel, when he can go around the corner, and get the same thing he is getting now, only its even cheaper? These same girls will now offer their services for $10 bucks.

I suspect if it was legal it would be harder for this customer to find a prostitute who would provide this service for $10. She'd likely be getting a job down at the legalized brothel. Even if all prostitutes couldn't find work at the legal brothel, than some would and this cuts down on the numbers available to provide a risky and illegal service.

5. What about the girls who can't work in the brothels? They have an STD, etc? They will be back on the streets, working, at reduced rates. Oh, but wait? Why would some guy go to them, and not the "clean" brothel? They are going to them NOW. Why get video taped using a brothel, which costs $100 bucks, when I can get the samething, for $10?

Like I said above, even if you don't eliminate all illegal prostitution this way, you are bound to cut the illegal portion of this activity down. If customers and women have a legal and safe place to carry on this trade, there will be less illegal activity going on. It just stands to reason.

6. Since you won't let the brothel in your neighborhood, and lets face it people: YOU WON'T. Where is it going to be? Let's put it out in the middle of no where. Ok, problem solved, right? Uh, no. Who the heck is going to drive and hour plus, when they can drive 10 mins, to where they are going now?

There are plenty of lowly populated places where it wouldn't offend people to open a legal brothel. I think I read there were about 32 in Nevada and there is no move from landowners or others to abolish the activity.

7. Prostitutes are people too. Yes, ofcourse they are. However, how many of you men are going to date/marry a prostitute? What are you going to do, bring Jane home for Christmas dinner and say, "Mom. Dad. This is Jane. She has sex with strange men for money." For the women who want to befriend them, same Christmas Dinner analogy applies. But, if what they do isn't a bad thing and should be legal, etc, why wouldn't you tell mom and dad?

Many prostitutes do get married when they are done practicing their occupation. Some working prostitutes are married women whose husbands are aware of what they are doing. On the other hand, many women who are not prostitutes never choose to marry. Many people still struggle to tell family members they are gay. Even though society is beginning to understand this is an issue about genes and not an issue about morality.

Legalizing prostitution, on paper, sounds wonderful. It looks good and great. However, when you look at it and really look at it, its truly a bad idea. There are way too many issues, which people do not, in their normal myopic views, look at and discuss.

Legalizing prostitution works relatively well in Nevada. Nothing in life is a "cure-all". I think there are some basic questions about how we can tolerate an activity that we wouldn't approve of one of our family members doing (I fit into that category). However, the current system is accomplishing very little. We have hordes of unregulated prostitution that is a danger to both the women prostitutes and their customers. The police waste valuable time trying to stop something that cannot be stopped. There has to be a better way.

[slackjaw]

Originally Posted by Phil306

A few points for those who want to legalize prostitution:

1. Why is putting the brothel next to my house proving it shouldn't be legal? I don't want a bar next to my house either, are you okay with those being legal?

2. Test the women. Never said testing was 100% perfect, but get what a food service worker can get hepatitis after they take their test, and get it in your salad. Outlaw food workers?

3. Prostitutes get raped, murdered. They are easy victims because it is a crime. Do you think a lot of whores at legal Nevada brothels get murdered or beat up?

4. People won't go if taxed. Yeah and people won't eat at steakhouses because there is an unlicensed hot dog stand (heh pun) nearby that is cheaper.

5. What about the girls who can't work in the brothels? Ahh so since some couldn't be legal prostitutes nobody should be legal? I can't be a baseball player let's outlaw that.

6. Repeat of point #1. There are zoning laws that allow things like pawn shops, adult shops, liquor stores and bars, same type of system applies to brothels. Don't worry, they won't be coming to random suburbia.

7. ??? You're really reaching here. It should be illegal because if it is legal they would be ashamed anyway? WHo are you to tell them what they should be ashamed of, or regulate who can worry about who they introduce to their parents? Gimme a break.

Legalizing prostitution, on paper, sounds wonderful. It looks good and great. However, when you look at it and really look at it, its truly a bad idea. There are way too many issues, which people do not, in their normal myopic views, look at and discuss.

I don't think it looks great, I just think it's a suppression of freedom that is unnecessary and a waste of resources to combat. I'm not going to feel bad that I was too myopic to think of your absolute gem of a point #7.

[elamigo]

Originally Posted by Phil306

A few points for those who want to legalize prostitution:

1. Fine. We'll put the brothel's next to YOUR house. You clean up all the used condoms, hypodermic needles, etc out in the streets. Oh, and don't forget, no place to park, because of the customers. Your kids can't play out in the street now and, the right wing wacko bible thumpers, will be there protesting AND video taping everything.

2. Test the women? Ok. Yeah, right. Many have shown how this won't work. They get tested one a month? Ok, guy A leaves, guy B comes in an infects her. 29 days to go until tested again. What about the 100 guys she infects between now and then? Oh. Safe sex, right? Yeah, ok. Offer a prostitute 20 extra bucks NOT to wear a condom. You'll get your way.

3. It doesn't hurt anyone? Really? How many prostitutes have been raped, murdered? Look at every single serial killer. MANY have targeted prostitutes. Why? The simple fact: No one really cares about them. What about all the wives of these johns who get some STD from prostitutes? MANY are hurt by prostitution; legal or otherwise.

4. Tax it and make money. Ok, great. So now, the oral sex the guy was getting, which cost him $20 bucks, is $100. Why go to your nice brothel, when he can go around the corner, and get the same thing he is getting now, only its even cheaper? These same girls will now offer their services for $10 bucks.

5. What about the girls who can't work in the brothels? They have an STD, etc? They will be back on the streets, working, at reduced rates. Oh, but wait? Why would some guy go to them, and not the "clean" brothel? They are going to them NOW. Why get video taped using a brothel, which costs $100 bucks, when I can get the samething, for $10?

6. Since you won't let the brothel in your neighborhood, and lets face it people: YOU WON'T. Where is it going to be? Let's put it out in the middle of no where. Ok, problem solved, right? Uh, no. Who the heck is going to drive and hour plus, when they can drive 10 mins, to where they are going now?

7. Prostitutes are people too. Yes, ofcourse they are. However, how many of you men are going to date/marry a prostitute? What are you going to do, bring Jane home for Christmas dinner and say, "Mom. Dad. This is Jane. She has sex with strange men for money." For the women who want to befriend them, same Christmas Dinner analogy applies. But, if what they do isn't a bad thing and should be legal, etc, why wouldn't you tell mom and dad?

Legalizing prostitution, on paper, sounds wonderful. It looks good and great. However, when you look at it and really look at it, its truly a bad idea. There are way too many issues, which people do not, in their normal myopic views, look at and discuss.

I must say your logic here is simply full of a lot of drama. There are other freedoms like drinking thus having bars that are regulated.

Also, there are other countries where it is regulated i.e. Germany and Holland without the exaggerated problems you address.

The closest example is the state of Nevada. Do you have the numbers in Nevada to back up your claims?

Whether anyone decides to marry a prostitute is besides the point. The prostitute is the one making that choice in her life. Who are you to control her life? We need to try to get out of the Big Brother mentality. The more we want the government to legalize areas of our freedom the more freedom we loose. We should be allowed to be adults and decide how to use our rights and accept the consequences of them.

It seems people do not have a problem finding a prostitution house in Nevada, do they? Again, it is not your problem what the logistics are on finding a brothel. Your points are simply saying "I do not like it therefore I will find all the reasons I can against it". Your reasons interfere with the right of a woman and a man for that matter to do with their body as they wish in this case.

STDs? Because it is illegal now we do not have STDs due to prostitution? Legal prostitution can diminish this possibility to a great extent as shown in the other countries I cited.

Women hurt? Example: In Holland, the woman is in her room. She has a big window so when she is available she has the curtains open. You walk along the street and signal to her you are interested. She comes to a door and negotiate the prize. Once you are in, you cannot leave without paying. They have people that are there to protect. The John better not attempt anything because he is the one going to jail. Before he leaves she opens the courtains and that indicates to the security people on the street she is safe. So how is that for your logic?

I have no idea where you have been in the world. I lived in Germany and visited Holland. The brothels in Germany are very well blended in the city with no problems cite as exaggerated drama.

For your information I did not have to visit any brothel to tell you about this because it is a very well known fact in Europe how they work. My family and I passed by these houses often. We knew abou them because friends told us about them. We never would imagine they were brothels. They were very well kept, clean on the outside, not exaggerated scenery you describe around them.

[LauraC]

Originally Posted by slackjaw

Recently saw a news blurb about police department went undercover for big investigation into a massage parlor that was giving happy endings. Can someone explain to me why anyone cares? With a business like that one can't even make the argument that is commonly heard where prostitution brings blight to an area because of the criminal element, this seems quite victimless to me.

Legalize it, tax the income, implement safety standards and medical testing.

It's no more devaluing of women than boxing or UFC is devaluing men.

Johns should be arrested and do some time to drive down the street action, just like drug users should be jailed to drive down dealer and border action. We're "fighting" the wrong sleazeball enemy.

Let's put "the action" inside gated communities, in front of expensive urban apartments/condos and in the food court at the mall and ask for opinions about legalizing drugs and prostitution.