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Old 02-09-2011, 02:04 AM
 
16,448 posts, read 10,331,140 times
Reputation: 9175
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeywrenching View Post
tough luck, they get to pay no taxes at all for the rest of their lives. it is a ponzie scheme and one that the politicians have stolen money from its citizens.
The elderly who can no longer work will lose their only means of support and all you say is "tough luck"?
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Old 02-09-2011, 02:25 AM
 
Location: Prepperland
7,876 posts, read 4,197,230 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bideshi View Post
The elderly who can no longer work will lose their only means of support and all you say is "tough luck"?
Paying a pension - any pension - from the public treasury creates an INTEREST GROUP that will fight to retain that benefit... regardless of the cost to the nation, its people or its future. Each one can justify why their group DESERVES it, but no one stops to question why it should never have been a part of government in the first place.

When did the rights of the pensioner become superior to the rights of those who pay him?

When the recipients have more power than the donors, the givers get "taken".

When the fleas outvote the dog, the dog dies.

It is human nature to keep grabbing for more, despite all evidence of the danger. Eventually, when the nation is driven into collapse, all pensioners and recipients will be cut off.

Then it will be too late.

Non-partisan bitter medicine for the USA
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Old 02-09-2011, 02:29 AM
 
Location: Hawaii
1,040 posts, read 1,532,421 times
Reputation: 1807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bideshi View Post
There is a huge ammount of abuse of this system. Many, many claimants are frauds. This is also true of military disabilities. I don't personaly know of even one retired military person without a claimed disability, and I have worked with the military for many years. It's a crime what some people will do to "get over" at the expense of the tax payer.
This must be especially galling for those with genuine disabilities that are immediately suspect when presenting genuine claims.
My husband Served almost 23 year, with 15 years of his Service AFTER he broke his neck (determined to be line of duty). He devoted himself to the Army, pushing himself when he should not have done so.

He has been Retired over two years now and the pain in his neck, spine and head is excruciating. It is due to the DJD that has grown on his injury.

He is also deaf (almost totally in one ear, a fair amount in the other ear); which was caused as his years as a Drill Sgt. Oh, and his left knee is completely blown out due to the strange gait that he used to run with that was caused by his broken neck.

He is just now 'thinking' about applying for a Service connected disability claim because he has been too proud to do so before.

He was given the choice to be medically Retired after he broke his neck but he felt that he was too young to accept money for his pain.

He has terrible headaches and cannot walk from the car to a store without beginning to limp painfully (and we park in handicapped parking due to my wheelchair use). He has had the sole care of me since I have been disabled, which adds to his physical pain.

He can no longer work and he is 44. What would you have this proud, loyal Retired 1SG do were you in is situation? It is so easy to judge from the outside looking in.
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Old 02-09-2011, 02:44 AM
 
16,448 posts, read 10,331,140 times
Reputation: 9175
Quote:
Originally Posted by melaniej65 View Post
My husband Served almost 23 year, with 15 years of his Service AFTER he broke his neck (determined to be line of duty). He devoted himself to the Army, pushing himself when he should not have done so.

He has been Retired over two years now and the pain in his neck, spine and head is excruciating. It is due to the DJD that has grown on his injury.

He is also deaf (almost totally in one ear, a fair amount in the other ear); which was caused as his years as a Drill Sgt. Oh, and his left knee is completely blown out due to the strange gait that he used to run with that was caused by his broken neck.

He is just now 'thinking' about applying for a Service connected disability claim because he has been too proud to do so before.

He was given the choice to be medically Retired after he broke his neck but he felt that he was too young to accept money for his pain.

He has terrible headaches and cannot walk from the car to a store without beginning to limp painfully (and we park in handicapped parking due to my wheelchair use). He has had the sole care of me since I have been disabled, which adds to his physical pain.

He can no longer work and he is 44. What would you have this proud, loyal Retired 1SG do were you in is situation? It is so easy to judge from the outside looking in.
I feel great sympathy for those with genuine disabilities. I am an Agent Orange sufferer from my time in Vietnam and truly understand. I hope they will do right by your husband.
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Old 02-09-2011, 02:47 AM
 
16,448 posts, read 10,331,140 times
Reputation: 9175
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
Paying a pension - any pension - from the public treasury creates an INTEREST GROUP that will fight to retain that benefit... regardless of the cost to the nation, its people or its future. Each one can justify why their group DESERVES it, but no one stops to question why it should never have been a part of government in the first place.

When did the rights of the pensioner become superior to the rights of those who pay him?

When the recipients have more power than the donors, the givers get "taken".

When the fleas outvote the dog, the dog dies.

It is human nature to keep grabbing for more, despite all evidence of the danger. Eventually, when the nation is driven into collapse, all pensioners and recipients will be cut off.

Then it will be too late.

Non-partisan bitter medicine for the USA
So your solution is for the elderly to be put to sleep, or?
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Old 02-12-2011, 05:59 PM
 
7,341 posts, read 9,194,298 times
Reputation: 2746
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bideshi View Post
So your solution is for the elderly to be put to sleep, or?
He doesn't have a solution. What he said was "tough luck". In other words he doesn't care. It's not his problem. The problem with that view is that if it happened that way, it would become one of his problems, seems to have escaped him. I say "he" or "him" but it really applies to anyone who thinks that way.
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Old 02-13-2011, 07:31 AM
 
5,548 posts, read 4,732,675 times
Reputation: 2659
Interesting question. I think some really need the help and are helped by it and others are brought down even further. What I mean is it can become a way of life and they don't exactly give out much money. I've always thought SSDI was a dead end road, but my opinion has changed lately due to a loved one's circumstances and going on SSDI himself.

He deals with severe depression and drinks too much to try to self medicate. He has tried to get help but nothing has worked to date. Could he work? I'm not sure. He might be able to get a job but the question is could he keep the job? Only time will tell.

One thing I am against is the notion of hiring a lawyer to get it. If you're bad enough and honest with SSA, that should be enough for them to make an accurate approval or denial.
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Old 02-13-2011, 07:46 AM
 
Location: Sango, TN
23,958 posts, read 10,716,076 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Escort Rider View Post
I think we all know that Social Security is more than just the retirement benefits which can be drawn starting at age 62 (with reduced amounts for taking them "early"). Our payroll taxes also are paying for disability insurance. But I am troubled by the sheer number and by the growing prevalence of the disability claims.

I note in The 2010 Annual Report of the Board of Trustees of the Federal Old-Age and Survivors Insurance and the Federal Disability Insurance Trust Funds that at the end of 2009, 18.5% of the people receiving monthly benefits were receiving disability benefits - about 9.7 million people (page 30). How can there be almost 10 million disabled in the United States? It boggles the mind! In dollar terms, 17.5% of total benefit payments are going to the disabled (page 31). Moreover, the disability prevalence rates have gone up every year since 1990, with the exception of 1997, when they stayed the same (page 131).

Unquestionably there are people who are truly disabled and truly cannot work. But I can't help wonder how many don't want to work. For Social Security puposes, disability is defined as "the inability to engage in substantial gainful activity by reason of any medically determinable physical or mental impairment that can be expected to last for a continuous period of not less than 12 months" (page 211, emphasis mine). I wonder if some of the "mental impairment" could be cured by a good swift kick in the ass, metaphorical or otherwise?

There are disability hearings but the Trustees' Report does not say anything about them and I know nothing about them. Perhaps some of you will post here and enlighten me. I suppose it's impossible to know the percentage of imposters to deserving cases. Am I the only one with troubling doubts? I would not want to deny aid to the legitimately disabled. How well is the system limiting the aid to just them? Does someone out there know?
I must question you and everyone else on one thing.

Do you trust doctors?

Doctors are the ones that determine if someone is incapable of working. In todays society, everyone knows that there are more stresses on the individual now then at other times in our history. Mental disorders, physical impairments, etc weren't noticed or diagnosed 30-40 years ago. Our doctors today have identified these things, and this is why the disability number has grown.

Its kind of like autism. Some folks think that the number of autistic children has grown, but many scientists think that the number hasn't grown, but the diagnosis process has gotten better.

I also know that there are some doctors out there who are willing to let low lifes and lazy people simply slip through the cracks and live off of the public dime.

The question is, how do you determine which doctor is a lying POS, and which doctor simply cares about their patients and have identified mental and physical impairments that others hadn't before?

I really don't know how you do that.
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Old 02-13-2011, 07:58 AM
 
10,452 posts, read 5,438,973 times
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I can tell you that most doctors I have been to take any sort of medications, accommodations or benefits very seriously and will NOT sign any papers or prescribe any meds if they don't believe your fibro or other condition is for real. I've never had a doctor give out a prescription or sign a paper at my first visit. The only time I did is when I already had a long history outlined by several other doctors who were already in agreement. For example my rheumatologist made sure I was a regular patient and he understood my condition well before signing any papers or prescribing any meds. My eye doctor had to provide a 3-page report of my exact needs just so I could get my school books transcribed into braille and did that after the first visit, but I had recently had several other eye doctors confirm I was blind.

I know some people who are just lazy and want to have a label slapped on them so they can get benefits. But each of these people I know doesn't have them or hasn't even applied--why? Too much work. Most lazy people are too lazy to go through the process of visiting doctors, filling out forms, getting denied, appealing, etc. etc. There are a minority of people persistent enough but the majority of lazy people do get weeded out by repeat denials. In fact, the majority of people get weeded out by repeat denials. I got denied 3 times before I got accepted and I can tell you if my condition hadn't been something non-controversial (total blindness) where I knew I was bound to get accepted sooner or later, I probably would have given up.
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Old 02-13-2011, 08:03 AM
 
5,548 posts, read 4,732,675 times
Reputation: 2659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
I must question you and everyone else on one thing.

Do you trust doctors?

Doctors are the ones that determine if someone is incapable of working. In todays society, everyone knows that there are more stresses on the individual now then at other times in our history. Mental disorders, physical impairments, etc weren't noticed or diagnosed 30-40 years ago. Our doctors today have identified these things, and this is why the disability number has grown.

Its kind of like autism. Some folks think that the number of autistic children has grown, but many scientists think that the number hasn't grown, but the diagnosis process has gotten better.

I also know that there are some doctors out there who are willing to let low lifes and lazy people simply slip through the cracks and live off of the public dime.

The question is, how do you determine which doctor is a lying POS, and which doctor simply cares about their patients and have identified mental and physical impairments that others hadn't before?

I really don't know how you do that.
Some Drs yes, others no.

SSA is going to look at several things when making a determination and one of those several things will be Dr notes. If you've got someone who has been going to the same Dr for years and not improving, that says a lot to SSA. Or, if you have someone who has gone to many Drs. for the same problem without improvement, that also works. My GF's husband has gone on SSD and had three Drs all say he could not work anymore. He was a cement mason his entire life and, at 55, what other kind of work was he to do?
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