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Old 10-06-2010, 10:58 AM
 
4,483 posts, read 9,249,737 times
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BBC did a documentary about purebred dogs and breeding to produce dogs that meet a "breed standard."

Documentary - BBC - Pedigree Dogs Exposed Video by bordercollie19 - MySpace Video

If you don't have time for the whole thing, start around minute 6 and watch at least five minutes. This part gives a few examples of what "responsible" breeders of purebred dogs have produced. Then watch another 5 minutes starting around minute 16. Start up again at minute 24, and again at 44.

I recommend watching the entire thing.

Most people should get their dogs neutered/spayed, but the breeding should not be restricted to purebreds.

Last edited by sll3454; 10-06-2010 at 11:27 AM..
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Old 10-06-2010, 12:40 PM
 
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Thanks Sll3454. I watched several parts of the video and will watch the entire thing when I have more time.

The documentary address many of the points I brought up about the problems of years of selective breeding and why breeding shouldnt be restricted to "show" dogs.

I particularly like how show breeders were compared to the eugenics and hitler and how one guy kept refering to show dogs as mutants.
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Old 10-06-2010, 01:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal View Post
The part I don't understand is why some posters think that those who show dogs should somehow be given instant credibility as breeders. It is the show breeders that have caused many of the breed specific health and behavior problems.
Once control is given to a certain group, are you willing to trust that group to make the right decisions for all? I'm not.

You bought your dogs from breeders. "Dog breeders" are people who breed dogs. So is anyone who breeds dogs a dog breeder? My neighbors breed dogs, sort of, in that they let their female wander.

If dog breeders needed to be licensed, who would do the licensing? Who would determine the standards? Who would decide which dogs ought to be bred? Wouldn't most breeders do whatever was necessary to breed dogs that they can sell for plenty of money? (That would be show dogs.)
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Old 10-06-2010, 02:06 PM
Status: "Mistress of finance and foods." (set 21 days ago)
 
Location: Coastal Georgia
50,036 posts, read 63,371,030 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
Who's going to tell all the stray alley cats that they need a license before they can breed?
And who's going to bail grandma out of jail when her little yappy dog gets knocked up by accident?
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Old 10-06-2010, 02:33 PM
 
29,981 posts, read 42,793,694 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimboburnsy View Post
What would the HSUS do? Threaten a press conference?

If you want action you call ELF or ALF.
Certainly you are not suggesting or supporting the actions of domestic terrorists are you? Please tell me I misunderstand your reference to "action".
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Old 10-06-2010, 04:53 PM
 
Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
8,307 posts, read 38,676,478 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal View Post
Certainly you are not suggesting or supporting the actions of domestic terrorists are you? Please tell me I misunderstand your reference to "action".
It was meant to be tongue-in-cheek. HSUS is, as far as I can tell, a widely misunderstood organization that seems to be, very erroneously, held in high regard by a large number of people. Their ultimate goals should be plainly unacceptable to any American AND everyone should understand that they will not respond to a report of localized abuse such as the other poster mentioned.

**You should know better about me... YES, ALF is an actual looney-tunes terrorist organization**
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Old 10-06-2010, 08:15 PM
 
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What I would fear most about "regulations" like this is who, in fact, would make the regulations themselves. Would it be the politicians, who we all know don't know their butt from a hole in the ground, let alone the difference between a Cardigan and a Pembroke Welsh Corgi? Or, would it be the so-called "experts" who, no doubt, would stand to make a heck of a lot more money should purebred dogs only be available through regulated breeders?

Either way, I don't see it ending well.

Personally, I think a good start would be to actually enforce the cruelty laws that are on the books.
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Old 10-06-2010, 09:02 PM
 
Location: Brambleton, VA
2,186 posts, read 7,915,633 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares View Post
Thanks Sll3454. I watched several parts of the video and will watch the entire thing when I have more time.

The documentary address many of the points I brought up about the problems of years of selective breeding and why breeding shouldnt be restricted to "show" dogs.

I particularly like how show breeders were compared to the eugenics and hitler and how one guy kept refering to show dogs as mutants.
There are plenty of people out there that breed for health first like I have said before and that you can't seem to understand because you don't want to. I know that you won't see very many examples in TN where you live - to be honest I can't think of one breeder in TN of any type of dog that is reputable right now. But, there has to be at least a few. Yes, the good ones are few and far between. It is pretty sad that I am in an all breed club with about 50 other people that you couldn't pay me to get a dog from. None health test and they all breed for looks over anything else. Yes, some breeds have been destroyed and even the good breeders have a hard time breeding healthy dogs - French Bulldogs, and really any Bulldogs are a couple great (not in a good way) examples of that. Not every "inbreeds" as you state and not all purebreds are mutants. They are a couple of the breeds that you pretty much are guaranteed to have some health problems with.

All mammals have the probability of being unhealthy in some way or another but the only way that cures are found or trends are noticed is if there is data to support it. A few of you live in areas with very ignorant people who love to start puppymills, breed their dogs like crazy and make money of it and yes, those breeders are horrible. I almost got a dog from a breeder in TN - luckily the person didn't seem to smart through their e-mails and phone conversations and then were stupid enough to show me pictures of their dogs in the snow chained to dog houses, very dirty and not very healthy looking. They also touted that they had rare pugs but still charged $400. These were pugs, not German Shepherds. Luckily, there is a fantastic HSUS coordinator in TN that is working with the State of Tennessee to stop stupid people like that. She has her hands full. Of course they have a huge operation right now in MO.

I always thought that breeders were evil because I was ignorant to the facts. I have worked with our local Humane Societies and rescues since I graduated form college and was always advocating for mutts. But, there came a time when I really wanted to know at least one of my animals history...and I felt guilty for it and thought that the Humane Society would judge me for it. But, I did a ton of research and found that you could buy a dog responsibly and they have all been supportive and learned a ton at the same time. We went from being very anti-breeder to pro-reputable breeder and of course continued to love all the mutts out there too. Especially the Seniors and older dogs.

The fact is, that some of us are attached to certain breeds and so if we are, we shouldn't be forced to rescue but encouraged to buy responsibly if we choose not to adopt from a shelter or rescue. I don't regret my decisions at all. I have an awesome pup that starts his career as an official therapy dog next week! Our mutt can outsleep any animal or person which is quite a wonderful talent too!

Many states already require breeders to be licensed and many breeders are more than happy to comply and exceed all standards. USDA licensed breeders are usually the puppymills and brokers that provide the dogs to the lovely petstores. It is up to the individual states to police the breeders to ensure they are keeping up with standards. But, like others have pointed out, the laws aren't well enforced. The state I live in issues licenses to operations outside of the state that ship puppies into the state with full knowledge that those facilities will never be inspected even though the application states they must be before they are licensed. Doesn't happen...If you have $800, you get a license. It is disappointing. But, money makes the world go round right?
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Old 10-07-2010, 08:52 AM
 
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Quote:
There are plenty of people out there that breed for health first like I have said before and that you can't seem to understand because you don't want to.

And if you watch the documentary it proves there are plenty that dont, including reputable breeders affiliated with the kennel club. You dont seem to want to acknowledge the problems associated with many purebred show dogs or the value of mix breed dogs.

I have no problem with purebred dogs, I have no problem with regulating breeders, going after puppymills and outlawing the sale of dogs and cats in pet stores. I do however have a problem with suggesting only a handful of people be legally allowed to breed only purebred registered show dogs.

Even you keep admitting most breeders arent reputable (to your standards) even though they are licensed and registered.
ANd you keep contradicting your argument for restricting breeding. If the distinguished officials of the kennel club and those that set the standards justify breeding for cosmetic reasons (watch the video) who is going to insure animals are actually bred for health and temperment? Perhaps you since you seem to know all the breeders.

Quote:
I know that you won't see very many examples in TN where you live - to be honest I can't think of one breeder in TN of any type of dog that is reputable right now.
Quote:
Reputable breeders only being allowed to breed would result in fewer health problems and animals actually being bred for health rather than money

Yes, some breeds have been destroyed and even the good breeders have a hard time breeding healthy dogs - French Bulldogs, and really any Bulldogs are a couple great (not in a good way) examples of that.

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Old 10-07-2010, 12:46 PM
 
Location: EPWV
19,325 posts, read 9,410,548 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares View Post


Its not the hobby of showing that is snooty, its the attitude that only show "quality" dogs should be allowed to reproduce under the guise that they are the only dogs guaranteed healthy when it is the practice of selective breeding to get desired physical characteristic in a breed that has brought about a variety of specific genetic disorders that perpetuate the need for OFA testing. .


Exactly


.[/quote]
I also think it a "snooty" attitude to assume one must pay $800+ for a dog to be a responsible loving pet owner.
.[/quote]

Exactly

.[/quote]
I know plenty ppl that have taken in strays and spent thousands of dollars on their health care. According to animal planet, there are plenty of ppl that have spent 800 on dogs that have had to be turned over to the ASPCA. Its a matter of education, not money.[/quote]


I've seen purebreeds taken in to shelters too.
.
Some people get them thinking they're going to be exactly like what they saw that dog to be based on a tv show/movie; or, get them for someone who they thought would want one but it turned out that wasn't the case and that person couldn't care for them either; and unfortunately, another reason that the person/s who adopted the dog could no longer take care of the pooch because of serious illness or death.
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