U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-30-2010, 08:40 PM
 
8,308 posts, read 8,586,427 times
Reputation: 25929

Advertisements

I say it would be a good thing. Here's why:

1. No one wants to owe up to it, but there is a quality problem among many recruits in the armed services. We have those who haven't completed schooling, those who have committed petty crimes, and other people who are less than committed to serving their country.

2. It would be good for young people to have to accept some sort of responsibility or committment in terms of defending and protecting the nation. We have emphasized freedom in our country for so long that a huge number of people have no concept that there are actually responsibilities that go along with this.

3. There are too many people in the military to earn rewards and benefits rather than to serve their country. The country shouldn''t have to bribe people with huge benefits to get them to do that which is their duty.

4. It would lead to less involvement in wars we shouldn't be fighting. If the sons of the rich and middle class were all forced to serve this country we would be having a real debate about whether its worth continuing the fight in Afghanistan and other places. The President wouldn't get a blank check from Congress to engage in such conflicts where there are at best marginal gains to be had for our country and society.

5. It would promote greater tolerance and cause more unity among our countrymen. The military is a vast melting pot. It would give the rich kid from the Hamptons in New York an opportunity to meet and understand poor kids who grew up in Watts in Southern California.

6. It is morally wrong that only the poor and less educated serve (and perhaps die) for their country in the military while the rich and middle class avoid service. This country belongs to ALL of us and All of us need to do our part.

Finally, just so young people can't claim they are being picked on, I propose some sort of limited draft for older healthy people who could render some valuable national service either in the military or out of up to age 65. Age shouldn't be away out of the draft either.

What say you?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-30-2010, 08:46 PM
 
15,616 posts, read 9,162,577 times
Reputation: 67792
Well for one thing, you say draft but your argument is about mandatory service - two different things. Mandatory military service wouldn't work in this country - system couldn't handle it. It's an old argument. Mandatory service, not necessarily in the military - that's different.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-30-2010, 10:01 PM
Status: "Bountiful pine needle harvest" (set 23 days ago)
 
Location: Near Manito
19,279 posts, read 20,160,099 times
Reputation: 13369
Ahem....

Universal National Corps for Leadership, Education, and Service (UNCLE’S)

American young people need ways to serve their country. Some volunteer for the military, some would choose other ways to serve, given the opportunity. Reviving the selective service system – the “draft” – but with a wider and more comprehensive variety of service options, is a way for the country to provide growth opportunities for all of its young adults, as well as provide for specific national needs to be addressed.

Every American citizen and permanent resident will be required to register with the Selective Service system , on his or her 18th birthday. Each registrant will then be required to perform two years of national service, to be completed before their 25th birthday. There will be no deferrals or conscientious objections permitted. Every effort will have been made to provide a meaningful form of service to every 18-25 year old American citizen or permanent resident.

Among the forms of service available for registrants will be:

1. military service
2. a revived “Domestic Peace Corps” (formerly known as Vista; currently known as Americorps), providing a variety of educational and social services throughout the United States.
3. The traditional Peace Corps, involving overseas service
4. Educational workers in High Care public schools districts, in the inner cities and depressed rural areas, with special emphasis placed on helping disadvantaged children succeed in school. Those who elect High Care tutoring or teaching as their two-year National Service commitment, will receive, in addition to their stipend, a voucher for one year of undergraduate or graduate study at the institution of their choice. This voucher may be redeemed at any time in the future.
5. Hospital duties, as aides, practitioners, counselors, and other service functions, depending on skills, in Veterans Administration and Military hospitals.
6. Infrastructure Team members, working to rebuild the nation’s bridges, roads, dams, electrical grids, and other public structures in need of repair and refurbishment.
7. Emergency Action Team members, assigned to forest fires, floods and other national disasters as needed, to work at repairing ecological disasters, and to provide both labor and vital supply functions in a variety of emergency situation

Although the duties assumed by these young people are meaningful and vital for the nation’s security and well-bring, of equal importance are the rewards accruing to individual registrants.

1. They will interact in positive ways with a variety of their contemporaries from all parts of the country, representing all races, creeds, genders, and cultures.
2. They will learn valuable technical skills as well as perseverance, teamwork, and self-sacrifice.
3. They will earn the gratitude of their fellow citizens and the respect of society.
4. Many will gain added maturity before embarking on post-secondary education.
5. Others will benefit from a hiatus from schooling between their undergraduate and post-graduate education, or prior to the completion of their bachelor's degree.
6. Registrants who elect to serve a third year in their specialty will receive a federal voucher good for one year of tuition at any college or university in which they enroll as an undergraduate or post-graduate student. This voucher may be redeemed at any time in the future.
7. Registrants will receive a regular monthly stipend for their work, based on current remuneration to military personnel in enlisted grades.
8. Registrants will receive free medical and dental care during their period of service.
9. Registrants who have not earned their high school diploma will be enrolled in GED or other equivalency coursework. Non-English speakers will receive intensive ESL training.

This system will revive the public spirit of young Americans and develop their sense of civic responsibility. The country will benefit from the fruitful use of its young adults’ energy, dedication, and commitment. Individual participants will share in the completion of the nation’s domestic and international missions, and will benefit from exposure to a comprehensive approach to training, team-building, and achievement. Because every citizen and permanent resident will have been required to serve, with no deferrals, a sense of shared purpose and common experience will inevitably grow among the generations, with practical, psychological and social benefits for individuals as well as for American society.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-30-2010, 10:10 PM
 
Location: Murphy, TX
635 posts, read 2,498,908 times
Reputation: 421
Here some potential issues I see such mandatory service:

1.) How do you intend pay all these people who serve? It will cost our debt ridden country quite a bit. Some people make quite a lot of money a year working, having them serve and lowering their pay could be a big financial hit for those individuals. Are you going to compensate those people?

2.) You mention quality issues of recruit, but now with mandatory service you will get MORE people with low or lower quality. Many more people would be disinterested, criminals, drug addicts, high school drop outs, completely out of shape (fat) people, etc. Do you suggest the military spend all their time fixing up these people at taxpayer expense?

3.) What are you going make these 10 or 20 million (I am estimating) exactly do since there isn't any real wars to fight? Just under go military training and then do community service?

I personally see this causing a lot more problems than solving them. It sort of seems like low-cost forced labor for government when there really isn't a need for it. Also as I mentioned it is going cost TONS of money to pay, house, train, etc all these personnel.

Last edited by unseengundam; 09-30-2010 at 10:36 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-01-2010, 08:33 AM
 
410 posts, read 624,211 times
Reputation: 557
Default Where is your moral compass?

Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
6. It is morally wrong that only the poor and less educated serve (and perhaps die) for their country in the military while the rich and middle class avoid service. This country belongs to ALL of us and All of us need to do our part.
It is morally wrong to force someone to risk their life for something they may or may not believe in. "Poor and less educated" people aren't forced to join the military as it is now, it is their choice. Being poor doesn't mean that you can't get an education elseware, nor does it limit your career options to military services. The government should have less control over what we do, not more.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-01-2010, 08:44 AM
 
3,277 posts, read 4,494,411 times
Reputation: 1908
And how will you compensate these people or are they just taking years out of their lives for nothing? If not, where will you get the money for this program? Speaking of which, how will it help our education system for their to be a two year interruption between secondary and tertiary?

Mos soldiers I've ever heard speak on the subject say they wouldn't want conscripts in their unit. Do you think most people would want some teenage conscript building the bridges that they drive over or teaching their children?

How do you plant to convince people to accept this when they can hardly be convinced of the rationality of something as banal as mandatory health care insurance?

And all of this is humouring the rather weak justifications for such a thing in the first place. Conscription exists in two types of countries: tiny countries which can't sustain armed forces though volunteers and large authoritarian hellholes, with Germany as the only country which doesn't fit into these two groups.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-01-2010, 09:05 AM
 
9,807 posts, read 12,906,251 times
Reputation: 8127
I do think we should have used a military draft rather than having Guard and Reserve units being called up repeatedly.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-01-2010, 09:06 AM
 
410 posts, read 624,211 times
Reputation: 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by marmac View Post
I do think we should have used a military draft rather than having Guard and Reserve units being called up repeatedly.
You think we should have forced people into it, rather than use people that have volunteered?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-01-2010, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Somewhere in northern Alabama
16,851 posts, read 51,335,478 times
Reputation: 27730
Cannon fodder is too 20th century and inefficient. The complaints about the quality of the draftees were loud, and the military willingly went along with the idea of a volunteer army. General education today is even worse than during the 1960s, so the draft would be a burden. Our military is now growing even smaller, in part because of the use of "contractors" who perform traditional support roles.

Realistically, the military of today is less about massive movements of men and equipment to battle huge forces and more about precision excision of extremists. A draft doesn't fit.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-01-2010, 10:25 AM
 
9,807 posts, read 12,906,251 times
Reputation: 8127
In response to the 2 above posts----------even the military stated the frequent re-deployments of Guards and Reserves was not desirable and only done so because they were sorely needed.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top