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Old 04-01-2011, 06:37 AM
 
2,385 posts, read 4,324,961 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte View Post
But what Africans were doing for themselves worked "for them". Africans weren't worried about what anyone thought of them until colonialism appeared. So what if they didn't have the wheel? Maybe the wheel didn't get down there until late. And besides, if you look at the continent, alot of it was historically inaccessible. Technology, knowledge, and new ideas would have eventually gotten there, but not right away due to the terrain.
LOL what? The wheel was INVENTED by evolving homo sapiens in different cultures at different times. It means if Africans didn't have the wheel that they were too dumb or un-evolved to invent it.
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Old 04-01-2011, 04:25 PM
miu
 
Location: MA/NH
17,764 posts, read 40,067,717 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte View Post
But what Africans were doing for themselves worked "for them". Africans weren't worried about what anyone thought of them until colonialism appeared. So what if they didn't have the wheel? Maybe the wheel didn't get down there until late. And besides, if you look at the continent, alot of it was historically inaccessible. Technology, knowledge, and new ideas would have eventually gotten there, but not right away due to the terrain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violett View Post
LOL what? The wheel was INVENTED by evolving homo sapiens in different cultures at different times. It means if Africans didn't have the wheel that they were too dumb or un-evolved to invent it.
I think that had the African continent been an isolated land mass like Australia or New Zealand and not be happened upon by Europeans, nothing there would have changed for thousands of years more. I think that the tribal people in Africa, the Australian aborigines and the New Zealand Maori would have been fine just doing their simple tribal thing for hundreds and thousands of years. There was no need for them to invent the wheel. They were content living in nature and in one area or following migrating animals with the seasons. And the same goes for the Native Americans, and those indigenous South American tribes that are sometimes newly discovered in the rain forests and other remote wild areas.

And in Africa, while the land is rich with resources like diamonds, other gemstones. gold and oil, they were of no use to the tribal people. Without European influences, the tribal people had no need or interest in raw diamonds for jewelry or industrial uses. They didn't need oil for combustion engines. Again, if outsiders hadn't discovered them, their way of life would have never ever changed.

And before some of you get all bent out of shape by my post, you forget that it took millions of years for homo sapiens to evolve. And the way modern science has developed, much of the early impetus was made by a few extraordinary geniuses, individual that thought way outside of conventional thinking and went against popular religion to pursue their line of thinking... even when threatened with excommunication, imprisonment and even death.

Last edited by miu; 04-01-2011 at 04:34 PM..
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Old 04-02-2011, 08:50 AM
 
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In order for the wheel to be invented, it has to be NEEDED. You know, the old saying, "necessity is the mother of invention".

It's only needed if cultures are developing at a certain pace, and that's the ENTIRE culture developing. Then, a few geniuses figure out innovations to aid the developing culture in progressing.

BUT, if the culture is going to stay somewhat animalistic and ONLY hunter/gather for themselves and tribe members and not develop, then of course, there's no real need for the wheel. Sure, it may be useful, but there's no NEED.

I think the lack of development for a wheel not only speaks to the lack of geniuses, but the lag in development of the culture itself.
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Old 04-02-2011, 10:48 AM
 
72,846 posts, read 62,272,604 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
I think that had the African continent been an isolated land mass like Australia or New Zealand and not be happened upon by Europeans, nothing there would have changed for thousands of years more. I think that the tribal people in Africa, the Australian aborigines and the New Zealand Maori would have been fine just doing their simple tribal thing for hundreds and thousands of years. There was no need for them to invent the wheel. They were content living in nature and in one area or following migrating animals with the seasons. And the same goes for the Native Americans, and those indigenous South American tribes that are sometimes newly discovered in the rain forests and other remote wild areas.

And in Africa, while the land is rich with resources like diamonds, other gemstones. gold and oil, they were of no use to the tribal people. Without European influences, the tribal people had no need or interest in raw diamonds for jewelry or industrial uses. They didn't need oil for combustion engines. Again, if outsiders hadn't discovered them, their way of life would have never ever changed.

And before some of you get all bent out of shape by my post, you forget that it took millions of years for homo sapiens to evolve. And the way modern science has developed, much of the early impetus was made by a few extraordinary geniuses, individual that thought way outside of conventional thinking and went against popular religion to pursue their line of thinking... even when threatened with excommunication, imprisonment and even death.
I also wanted to add to this. The parts of Africa and South America that were relatively isolated. One could argue that things didn't there as easily as other parts of the world. Africa has the Sahara Desert. Cecil Rhodes wanted to build a railroad from Cairo to Cape Town. Can't really happen on 19th century technology because the Sahara is in the way. It is mainly shifting sand, so I would imagine building a railroad is not going to be likely.

I would argue that if there was a more equitable trade/exchange of resources and ideas, then perhaps things could have panned out differently.
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Old 04-02-2011, 10:54 AM
 
72,846 posts, read 62,272,604 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Violett View Post
In order for the wheel to be invented, it has to be NEEDED. You know, the old saying, "necessity is the mother of invention".

It's only needed if cultures are developing at a certain pace, and that's the ENTIRE culture developing. Then, a few geniuses figure out innovations to aid the developing culture in progressing.

BUT, if the culture is going to stay somewhat animalistic and ONLY hunter/gather for themselves and tribe members and not develop, then of course, there's no real need for the wheel. Sure, it may be useful, but there's no NEED.

I think the lack of development for a wheel not only speaks to the lack of geniuses, but the lag in development of the culture itself.
The wheel was invented in Mesopotamia, in what is now modern-day Iraq. I doubt that there was alot of travel from there to the interior of Africa. It takes travel for ideas to get through, and for cultures to change. And the wheel did get to Nubia. And something else. Mesopotamia's terrain would have made the wheel useful. How much use would the wheel have been in the lowland forests of the Congo? Not much, unless roads are built.
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Old 04-02-2011, 11:26 AM
 
Location: New York City
1,556 posts, read 3,538,257 times
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Had Europeans not destabilized the continent by kidnapping millions of people...Africa would be in good shape today.

Africa is the cradle of civilization and as such has given the world empires like Egypt & Nubia. What really kills me is when Americans try to demean the African continent....when it is the worlds oldest civilization and gave birth to mankind. Before any European walked the earth there stood Africa.

So before some on here speak about what they THINK is the problem with the continent remember what role Caucasians played in its destruction.
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Old 04-02-2011, 12:58 PM
miu
 
Location: MA/NH
17,764 posts, read 40,067,717 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewYorkBorn View Post
Had Europeans not destabilized the continent by kidnapping millions of people...Africa would be in good shape today.

Africa is the cradle of civilization and as such has given the world empires like Egypt & Nubia. What really kills me is when Americans try to demean the African continent....when it is the worlds oldest civilization and gave birth to mankind. Before any European walked the earth there stood Africa.

So before some on here speak about what they THINK is the problem with the continent remember what role Caucasians played in its destruction.
And you keep disregarding the FACT that it was dominant African tribes that were providing stock for the slave trade. And you are also forgetting the FACT that slavery is still being practiced today in Africa. Plus child brides. Plus diseases like malaria and infant mortality due to non-existant pre-natal care.. And great reoccuring famines due to a lack of practicing birth control. And what about all the black on black genocide in Africa? The native people of Africa didn't need help by whites to make a mess of their continent. It's been a disaster waiting to happen thousands of years.

It's like a lemming population. When the times are favorable to live in, too many humans are produced. Then once the land they live on can't support the human population, competing tribes kill each other off in an effort to maintain access to valuable resources like watering holes. Or in an area densely populated by people, some disease runs rampant and wipes out the majority of them. Just like the black plague did in Europe. In Africa now, malaria, ebola and AIDS are all causes for concern to humans. It's just the way Mother Nature operates.

Stop dreaming that an Africa without white people would have been a continuous happy Garden of Eden all this time.
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Old 04-03-2011, 07:31 AM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,229 posts, read 84,159,421 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Violett View Post
I became friends with a black man from Nigeria who told me honestly that in the city he comes from, there is a belief that if you ask someone (a stranger) their name and then kidnap them and cut their head off, that if you keep the head in a freezer, every time you say the person's name money will come out of the head's mouth. And that's why in his city no one wanted to tell strangers their name.

True story.
There was a documentary on TV not long ago about a place in Africa where the body parts of children are considered to bring good fortune. I missed the beginning of the show, so I don't know exactly where this was, and Africa is a big continent so I wouldn't venture to guess.

Anyway--it was so sad. This young woman couldn't find her 18-month-old. A neighbor told her her baby was murdered and buried in the jungle. She went and found him and dug him up and his head was gone. It turns out her husband, the baby's father, sold his son's head for $2,000 to some guy who wanted to bury it in the ground beneath the new house he was building because it would bring him luck and prosperity in his new home. In another case, someone cut the testicles off of a toddler for a similar purpose, but the boy was still alive.
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Old 04-04-2011, 04:47 AM
 
Location: .....
956 posts, read 1,111,637 times
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Default ......

Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
And you are also forgetting the FACT that slavery is still being practiced today in Africa.

No one has forgotten that fact. Slavery (human trafficking) is also being practiced in Europe, Asia, and the Americas; so it comes as no surprise that it would exist in Africa.

And what about all the black on black genocide in Africa? The native people of Africa didn't need help by whites to make a mess of their continent. It's been a disaster waiting to happen thousands of years.

Conflict is inevitable. From the mass slaughter fields in SE Asia, to the inhumane acts of violence witnessed in Eastern Europe, to the coups and rebellions in Latin America; this principle has held true time and time again. In Africa, the diverse populations bound together and left fighting one another in the power vacuums of the post-colonial era was/is a recipe for disaster. Co-operation and sovereignty are relatively new and hard-learnt concepts across the majority of the globe...

Stop dreaming that an Africa without white people would have been a continuous happy Garden of Eden all this time.

I don't think the majority of Africans are under the illusion that without European contact, that they would be living in some sort of Utopia. However, the revisionists are quick to alter the history books in their favour. European and Arab contact and trade had existed along the African coasts for several centuries before the Scramble for Africa took place. Where you won't get off is by suggesting that somehow colonization was done in the best interests of the native populations, that colonization benefited the native populations in more ways than it harmed them (few rare exceptions), or that the native populations in the New World were destined to remain culturally stagnant for eternity.
...
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Old 04-06-2011, 02:59 PM
 
1,811 posts, read 1,205,049 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Violett View Post
LOL what? The wheel was INVENTED by evolving homo sapiens in different cultures at different times. It means if Africans didn't have the wheel that they were too dumb or un-evolved to invent it.
How racist of you to speak the truth. Bad, truth-teller, bad. Shame on you.
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