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Old 10-13-2010, 12:58 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA
1,154 posts, read 1,671,676 times
Reputation: 724

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I didn't know this existed, but it does apparently...

charles hugh smith-Runaway Feedback Loops, Wealth Concentration and Gaming-The-System

So middle class family has decent life for a while, buying your typical McMansion in the boom years. Job dries up, and money runs out. What to do? Apparently, there are a lot of people that are divorcing so that the wife and kids can collect food stamps, housing benefits, etc., as they keep the gravy train rolling...

Quote:
Here's how people with assets can game the welfare system: get a "convenience divorce" so the wife can throw herself and her two children on the mercy of the state. The father has no formal income and is thus off the hook in terms of child support. The state welfare system is a series of bureaucratic "silos," so agencies are either not empowered or don't care to cross-reference real estate/asset ownership with entitlements issued solely on the basis of income.

No income, you qualify. Home ownership/assets are either not tracked or masked with omissions or lies.

In my area, the cash housing subsidy is over $1,400 a month. Medicaid and free healthcare for Mom and the kids is worth as much as $1,000 a month were you to buy it on the open market as individuals. Food stamps (SNAP) are worth at least $600 per month, and then there are all the other entitlements: free after-school child care, free school lunches and so on, plus the possibility of cash payments to moms with two kids and no income for a few years.

The private-economy value of these cash benefits is about $3,500 - $4,000 a month.

 
Old 10-13-2010, 01:20 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
3,406 posts, read 8,988,915 times
Reputation: 2014
I'm not quite sure what he's describing actually would work, nor do I see how having no income and staying married vs. being divorced changes the dynamics. First, one of the parties is going to have to leave their primary residence. So, they're going to have to pay rent somewhere, or live out on the street, or with a relative or friend. After the terms of their separation have been met, when one of the parties files for divorce, they have to agree to the distribution of their marital assets, custody and child support. Obviously she'd have to decline the distribution of any of their assets, he'd have to decline custody, and I guess the court would work out the rest.

Presuming that they were granted a divorce, yes she could then go to DSS and apply for, and would probably get, welfare. That would mean Section-8 housing, food stamps, WIC, and Medicaid for the kiddos.

I don't exactly know, but I imagine that she'd have to then be actively looking for a job, and filing regularly with DSS as to the status of that.
 
Old 10-13-2010, 01:26 PM
 
31,385 posts, read 31,046,755 times
Reputation: 14878
Default Afdc no longer exist!!!

Aid For Dependent Children is gone, kaput, down the rabbit hole! Its replacement Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) doesn't require, encourage or advise families to divorce, separate or anything else to qualify for benefits.

Now I don't know about you but $320 per month in TANF benefits and additional $668 in food stamps, for a family of four (forget about Section 8 or public housing since you are going to be on a very long waiting list). is keeping the gravy train running... I can only ask what third world country do you live in?
 
Old 10-13-2010, 01:48 PM
 
31,385 posts, read 31,046,755 times
Reputation: 14878
Virtually every critic of welfare that I have read on these boards has based their criticisms on programs that either no longer exist or on information that is so faulty as to be beyond absurd. I have never read such a discussion that is backed by actual facts of the pertaining laws or programs of their state or Federal government (although I suspect why) and only bolstered by some anecdotal story about what they saw at the grocery store, some nefarious relative or the some unnamed neighbor down the street.

Having said that, let me clearly state that I am NO fan of welfare, I would much prefer the "socialist" establishment of local child care centers for working parents, real job training with real incentives for success, job placement and as a last resort pubic employment for those who are able to work. While based upon the welfare reform act of 1996 many of these components are already in place, I like many believe that more can be done. As a result, any serious debate about welfare, or welfare reform needs to be placed in such a context, not dated discussions about 80's era welfare queens. So, if anyone REALLY wants to have a serious discussion - especially one in the faux Great Debate forum, let's do so, but lets leave the nonsense to the politics and controversy forum.

Thanks.

Last edited by ovcatto; 10-13-2010 at 02:30 PM..
 
Old 10-14-2010, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Somewhere in northern Alabama
16,841 posts, read 51,286,023 times
Reputation: 27648
It saddens me to know how many people read inflammatory rhetoric and believe it, even though five minutes of fact checking would disprove it. As for the people who write such trash, I'm not normally a violent person, but I'd like to slug them in the face or hammer their writing hand. Intentionally writing lies to foment a stereotypical view is just plain evil.
 
Old 10-21-2010, 08:21 AM
 
613 posts, read 834,111 times
Reputation: 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by superk View Post
I'm not quite sure what he's describing actually would work, nor do I see how having no income and staying married vs. being divorced changes the dynamics. First, one of the parties is going to have to leave their primary residence. So, they're going to have to pay rent somewhere, or live out on the street, or with a relative or friend. After the terms of their separation have been met, when one of the parties files for divorce, they have to agree to the distribution of their marital assets, custody and child support. Obviously she'd have to decline the distribution of any of their assets, he'd have to decline custody, and I guess the court would work out the rest.

Presuming that they were granted a divorce, yes she could then go to DSS and apply for, and would probably get, welfare. That would mean Section-8 housing, food stamps, WIC, and Medicaid for the kiddos.

I don't exactly know, but I imagine that she'd have to then be actively looking for a job, and filing regularly with DSS as to the status of that.
Neither one of the parties would have to move. A couple I know is doing the same thing. They divorced bout a year ago and nothing changed. All she had to do is get a letter from him stating that they are living there for free. That's it.
 
Old 10-21-2010, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Orlando, Florida
43,858 posts, read 43,559,234 times
Reputation: 58603
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
......................

Now I don't know about you but $320 per month in TANF benefits and additional $668 in food stamps, for a family of four (forget about Section 8 or public housing since you are going to be on a very long waiting list). is keeping the gravy train running... I can only ask what third world country do you live in?
Thanks for the post. I have no idea where people get the idea that being on welfare is some sort of a vacation life. It isn't enough money to live on or eat on. The lines are long and the system is shabby.
 
Old 10-21-2010, 10:18 AM
 
Location: In the real world!
2,178 posts, read 8,219,530 times
Reputation: 2772
Long before things got like they are today, I had a lady move in with me that had her grandkids. I never knew how many ways there was to play the system but that lady was a pro at it. I worked every day and could barley pay my bills! She sat on her butt and had a lot more than I did. Food stamp day was steak day for her and all her friends, she wanted to pay her phone bills with food stamps (using MY phone to call long distance and wanted to pay me with food stamps .50 on the dollar she owed). At Christmas, she had those kids on every church list she could, toys for tots and every other disadvantage program for kids that she could get them on. My house was stacked floor to ceiling with donated gifts for those kids. Christmas morning, you could not walk in my living room for all the gifts. As soon as they were unwrapped, they went in boxes, those boxes went out the front door and I never saw any of that stuff again... she returned it ALL to the stores and got a refund. It was a very eye opening experience for me and I could not believe what I was seeing.. She profited big time over having those grandkids. Once I threw her out, someone felt sorry for her and gave her a moblie home for her and the kids to live in.. What'd she do? She sold it without ever living in it..
 
Old 10-21-2010, 10:33 AM
 
31,385 posts, read 31,046,755 times
Reputation: 14878
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laura707 View Post
Long before things got like they are today, I had a lady move in with me that had her grandkids. I never knew how many ways there was to play the system but that lady was a pro at it. I worked every day and could barley pay my bills! She sat on her butt and had a lot more than I did. Food stamp day was steak day for her and all her friends, she wanted to pay her phone bills with food stamps (using MY phone to call long distance and wanted to pay me with food stamps .50 on the dollar she owed). At Christmas, she had those kids on every church list she could, toys for tots and every other disadvantage program for kids that she could get them on. My house was stacked floor to ceiling with donated gifts for those kids. Christmas morning, you could not walk in my living room for all the gifts. As soon as they were unwrapped, they went in boxes, those boxes went out the front door and I never saw any of that stuff again... she returned it ALL to the stores and got a refund. It was a very eye opening experience for me and I could not believe what I was seeing.. She profited big time over having those grandkids. Once I threw her out, someone felt sorry for her and gave her a moblie home for her and the kids to live in.. What'd she do? She sold it without ever living in it..

Thanks for posting...

Nice see an accounting of the amount of fraud, waste and inefficiency in the private sector welfare system.
 
Old 10-21-2010, 10:54 AM
 
3,700 posts, read 3,025,705 times
Reputation: 10007
TV and other media constantly promote the notion of the "Welfare Cadillac," Ron Reagan got a lot of milage out of his feigned indignation regarding welfare recipients "high life" on the dole. Most of the stats concerning welfare certainly allow a view to the fact of poor oversight on the governments side but usually don't reflect the truth about corporate welfare that is ignored by media. Seeing as how obfuscation of these truths seems to be job one for the American media one can easily determine the source of bulls**t news that forms popular opinion and thus leads the proles around by the nose. I guess the OP is wondering why most people don't "take advantage" of this gold mine of gubmint largesse and sign up for that "welfare Cadillac".

After reading some of the posts here I guess I'll never give another dime to anyone in need because it's obvious that "everybody" in need is really a scammer in disguise. I gotta go now and let my neighbors know about this windfall financial event that is driving so many of the divorces in our country, I wished I'd known about this gold mine sooner........
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