U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-16-2010, 03:40 PM
 
258 posts, read 460,146 times
Reputation: 128

Advertisements

Is it 100% the schools fault? Is it 100% the parents fault?

Is it 80% schools fault and 20% parents fault?

An interesting book to read is "The Outliers"

It basicly says that the number one indicator of success for a child is how the parents raised the child.

I would say that 80% of fault is on the parents, 10% fault on the child and 10% on the schools. I know people that have done well in really crappy schools.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-17-2010, 09:19 AM
 
Location: on an island
13,374 posts, read 40,168,811 times
Reputation: 13176
I am inclined to agree with you. Parents and home environment are the most important ingredient to academic success.
So I don't know how much of a debate this can be.

There are many factors to consider, some of them socio-economic. I think much of a child's future is already determined by the time he is 10 or 11.

Regardless, there is no getting around the fact that some affluent kids do poorly in their superb schools, and some poor kids are able to do well in spite of their less-than-ideal educational institution.

I still wonder about our opportunity structure. Healthy competition is good.
Yet how many of our movers and shakers achieved merit-based success?
When the system is set up so that it is usually the elite whose talent meets up with the right training, the playing field doesn't seem equal.
But then, this can lead to yet another debate about the definition of success.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-17-2010, 09:37 AM
 
3,651 posts, read 8,115,052 times
Reputation: 2747
Quote:
Originally Posted by mquest123 View Post
I would say that 80% of fault is on the parents, 10% fault on the child and 10% on the schools.
Not a fan of trying to put numbers on something which is well beyond it, but if pressed, I'd say that's in the ballpark....although I might tweak those numbers since the whole "it's all about standardized testing" BS came into play.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-17-2010, 10:24 AM
 
Location: 500 miles from home
27,266 posts, read 15,048,153 times
Reputation: 20866
Maybe I'm crazy; but I don't think our (meaning mine) school system is all that bad. My son does well; there are tons and tons of opportunities for AP classes; Honors classes . . . . extracurricular activities . .

Everytime we see a show on bullying; my son says 'My school is not like that".

So, I'm well pleased so far. But I can only speak for the two school systems we've been a part of .

And, yes, parental involvement plays a huge role and did in both system.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-18-2010, 03:33 AM
 
Location: on an island
13,374 posts, read 40,168,811 times
Reputation: 13176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringo1 View Post
Maybe I'm crazy; but I don't think our (meaning mine) school system is all that bad. My son does well; there are tons and tons of opportunities for AP classes; Honors classes . . . . extracurricular activities . .
You're not crazy. You are an involved parent.

Public school was fine for my two boys as well (both are in their 20's now.)
But one thing I figured out along the way was that when it comes to public schools, the parents have to play an active, assertive role. Teachers and guidance counselors do not always come knocking on your door.

Many public schools are far too over-crowded and their staff beleaguered, and tracking, for better or worse, can play a part in a student's future. Parents, along with making sure their kid is safe, have to make sure that their student gets all the challenges and enrichment that are possible.

Joey brings up another point--numbers, and how much they do and don't mean. Standardized tests are a reality that every public school must face.
There must be measurement and accountability--but to whom?

Truly, smaller class sizes would make so much difference.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-18-2010, 03:42 AM
 
634 posts, read 960,887 times
Reputation: 271
I'll say is 60% the parents, 30% the school and 10% the kid!
The school is very important. I've been to a public school here in Europe and my class was the best in the school because we sustained an exam to get in and if we had bad grades we were moved in other classes. Because of that only the best in the school were in my class (and in most cases the parents had a crucial role). Also if most of the parents agreed that one of the kids is a bad influence for the majority, that kid got moved in other classes!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-18-2010, 07:43 AM
 
Location: Between Philadelphia and Allentown, PA
5,077 posts, read 12,710,230 times
Reputation: 3713
As a parent, I feel the responsibility lies greatly on the parents to set their kids on the right path to do well in school and in life. If they don't get the love and support and discipline they need at home why is that the teachers problem? I think teachers are paid to teach not to teach kids about manners, life, hygiene, etc... A strong base needs to come from home. A teacher can do his / her job a lot better if the kids are well balanced and well behaved and focused in school vs a student for example who's from a home with barely-there parents, relying on himself for dinner, entertainment etc.. who's always in trouble, coming in late, doing what he / she wants. THAT example of a student is, I would think a teachers worse nightmare. If I were a teacher, I'd be hard pressed to be excited about my job if I spent my day raising kids instead of teaching them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-19-2010, 12:16 PM
 
1,327 posts, read 3,275,072 times
Reputation: 1011
Coming from a personal point of view...
My son who is now 17 and graduated in May of this year was not given a well rounded education from public school. I homeschooled him until he was 13. He was a bright, well mannered young man. I was always given compliments on how well behaved and mature he was. I had to put him in public school because honestly I really couldn't teach him anymore and because my husband and I were starting a business.
He went into the eighth grade. He tested for the ninth. The counselor wanted to put him in the seventh grade.
Well...he became a whole different person. His grades were okay, but he started getting into trouble. He grew his hair out became uncommunative and not as social to older people. I know he was just becoming a teenager, but it happened so fast. He barely got by in 9th grade. 10th grade was bad due to an accident he had and we moved so he had to change schools. He ended up going to an "alternative" school and did excellent. His teachers loved him (in the other two previous schools half the teachers didn't even know who he was when we would go to parent/teacher night). The principal liked him. His grades went up to A's and B's and he even ended up graduating early by being able to take extra classes.
So....I may not be the best parent and he may not be the best kid, but I think the regular public schooling did not work for my kid.

I don't think it was just the schools fault. I think peer pressure was a big disturbance for him. He wanted to go to school more for the social stimulation than educational reasons.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-19-2010, 06:30 PM
 
Location: 500 miles from home
27,266 posts, read 15,048,153 times
Reputation: 20866
Quote:
Originally Posted by LABART View Post
Coming from a personal point of view...
My son who is now 17 and graduated in May of this year was not given a well rounded education from public school. I homeschooled him until he was 13. He was a bright, well mannered young man. I was always given compliments on how well behaved and mature he was. I had to put him in public school because honestly I really couldn't teach him anymore and because my husband and I were starting a business.
He went into the eighth grade. He tested for the ninth. The counselor wanted to put him in the seventh grade.
Well...he became a whole different person. His grades were okay, but he started getting into trouble. He grew his hair out became uncommunative and not as social to older people. I know he was just becoming a teenager, but it happened so fast. He barely got by in 9th grade. 10th grade was bad due to an accident he had and we moved so he had to change schools. He ended up going to an "alternative" school and did excellent. His teachers loved him (in the other two previous schools half the teachers didn't even know who he was when we would go to parent/teacher night). The principal liked him. His grades went up to A's and B's and he even ended up graduating early by being able to take extra classes.
So....I may not be the best parent and he may not be the best kid, but I think the regular public schooling did not work for my kid.

I don't think it was just the schools fault. I think peer pressure was a big disturbance for him. He wanted to go to school more for the social stimulation than educational reasons.
Interesting Labart; thanks for sharing. I would tend to agree with you that a large public school is not going to benefit every child.

Most of the time, I do feel like my son is fairly invisible in the large school setting. We were just lucky enough to find other kids and other parents that have pushed us and we have pushed each other into trying to excel.

I used to hate hearing this - but belonging to an athletic group has been a huge benefit. It gives my son a crowd (and he's a swimmer so it's not the most popular crowd); but the swimming kids seem to get good grades and stay out of trouble. I guess they spend too much time in the pool to do much else! But you have to maintain good grades and good health and manage your time well. This has definitely helped my son succeed in HS. As I parent, I can't ask for more ~ good friends, a focus on fitness; good grades; and staying out of trouble . . . . maybe my standards are too low!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-20-2010, 06:21 AM
 
1,327 posts, read 3,275,072 times
Reputation: 1011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringo1 View Post
. . . . maybe my standards are too low!
I liked your post up until here. I'm not sure what you're getting at? Are you trying to be modest or sarcastic?
I was a swimmer in school. They don't have a swim team where we live now. My kid was in sports when he was younger. Football and basketball are the sports around here. He was one of those awful kids that skateboarded and played in a band. He doesn't like to skateboard anymore since he was hit by a car, and he coudn't play sports afterwards if he wanted to. He still plays guitar.
Two years ago our school almost didn't open due to lack of funding. I think a lot of the problem with our schools here is lack of funding. Our property taxes are way too low, but no one wants to pay more. I think it's a shame. Considering how low our taxes our, it would not hurt to raise them a little for school.
Good Luck.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top