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None of the things above involve an active attempt to do harm. The death penalty is the state killing people. Bathtubs are not, to the best of my knowledge about killing people.
Ahh, the old straw man argument?
Just as weak today as it was many years ago. I suggest you upgrade to the Chewbacca defense.
In your view the death penalty is about the state killing people. Clearly you have trouble with reading comprehension, or you would understand that many people see that it is about saving people.
While medicine saves more than it kills, we accepted that those losses are so that other people live. We try to avoid killing innocent people via medicine, but it happens.
So let's look at the death penalty. Current use in America is a failure (as I previously explained) and leads people to believe it is ineffective at stopping crime. As shown in Singapore it is highly effective.
Singapore has a murder rate of .4/100,000 people. The US is 5/100,000 people. So our murder rate is 12.5 times (1250%) of theirs. We average 16,000 murders each year. With liberal use of the death penalty we could quickly reduce our murders by 50%, which would see 8,000 lives saved each year.
By using it to stop meth and cocaine/crack we could see 1,000's more lives saved and numerous other violent crimes stopped.
I can accept a few innocent people might get executed, but I am also aware that it will save tens of thousands of lives, improve the standard of living for nearly 99% of all Americans and save American's billions via lower taxes, lower insurance and lower crime.
I know you'll rant about freedom, tyranny and all the other lies spread by anti punishment people. You'll never know the freedom of being in a country where it's safe in all places and you can trust everyone you meet.
Some more Singapore numbers:
Violent crime: 46/100k people (ours is nearly 1000% of that)
Robbery 24/100k
Assault 18/100k
Property crime: 874/100k (ours is about 400%)
Burglary: 73/100k
Theft: 737/100k
Sure looks like a 1st world nation has real issues if they use the death penalty. God forbid you give people safe places to live.
Ahh, the old straw man argument?
Just as weak today as it was many years ago. I suggest you upgrade to the Chewbacca defense.
In your view the death penalty is about the state killing people. Clearly you have trouble with reading comprehension, or you would understand that many people see that it is about saving people.
While medicine saves more than it kills, we accepted that those losses are so that other people live. We try to avoid killing innocent people via medicine, but it happens.
So let's look at the death penalty. Current use in America is a failure (as I previously explained) and leads people to believe it is ineffective at stopping crime. As shown in Singapore it is highly effective.
Singapore has a murder rate of .4/100,000 people. The US is 5/100,000 people. So our murder rate is 12.5 times (1250%) of theirs. We average 16,000 murders each year. With liberal use of the death penalty we could quickly reduce our murders by 50%, which would see 8,000 lives saved each year.
By using it to stop meth and cocaine/crack we could see 1,000's more lives saved and numerous other violent crimes stopped.
I can accept a few innocent people might get executed, but I am also aware that it will save tens of thousands of lives, improve the standard of living for nearly 99% of all Americans and save American's billions via lower taxes, lower insurance and lower crime.
I know you'll rant about freedom, tyranny and all the other lies spread by anti punishment people. You'll never know the freedom of being in a country where it's safe in all places and you can trust everyone you meet.
Some more Singapore numbers:
Violent crime: 46/100k people (ours is nearly 1000% of that)
Robbery 24/100k
Assault 18/100k
Property crime: 874/100k (ours is about 400%)
Burglary: 73/100k
Theft: 737/100k
Sure looks like a 1st world nation has real issues if they use the death penalty. God forbid you give people safe places to live.
Would you accept then, being wrongly sentenced to and executed? Knowing that that's the price you had to pay so your family could roam the streets without using their own good judgment?
If you answer yes to that, then I'll still wholeheartedly disagree with you, but I could at the very least, respect that it is your opinion.
Ahh, the old straw man argument?
Just as weak today as it was many years ago. I suggest you upgrade to the Chewbacca defense.
The straw man argument is an argumentative strategy, are you aware of what it means? I only ask as it may help the debate if you are.
[quote=In your view the death penalty is about the state killing people. Clearly you have trouble with reading comprehension, or you would understand that many people see that it is about saving people. [/QUOTE]
Ok, to clarify, you think that the death penalty doesn't involve the state killing people?
[quote=While medicine saves more than it kills, we accepted that those losses are so that other people live. We try to avoid killing innocent people via medicine, but it happens.[/QUOTE]
So, in medicine, people generally volunteer for treatment, it aspires to save people's lives, and in sometimes fails and they die. The death penalty is the state attempting to kill people. Its not really compatible.
[QUOTE=So let's look at the death penalty. Current use in America is a failure (as I previously explained) and leads people to believe it is ineffective at stopping crime. As shown in Singapore it is highly effective. [/QUOTE
As your case can't simply be based on Singapore, I assume you have some form on data on murder rates and death penalty application world wide?
[QUOTE=I can accept a few innocent people might get executed, [/QUOTE
excellent, which, as you recall was my point. I'm glad you agree with me, although you seem to have spent a long time getting there.
The hostility is quite unneeded and against the Great Debate guidelines, I mention that as a courtesy, in case you were unaware of it.
Firstly, you didn't actually answer the question, would you hands down accept being executed as the price you had to pay to let your family roam the streets without using their own good judgment?
Now note that this is not in any way a "snide remark", it's simply stating that you can just as easily avoid any trouble by being a little "street smart" and using your judgment when you're out walking. This applies in bad neighborhoods as well as good. (Aka, use your eyes and your brain and 999 times out of 1000 you won't get in trouble.) Because of this, this walking anywhere safe you talk of must bean walking everywhere safely without having to apply any sense of good judgment or awareness.
And without commenting further on your outrage, I never said I would respect the holder of said opinion, nor the opinion itself, merely that I'd respect that it is a held opinion. There's a big difference there.
Last edited by Green Irish Eyes; 02-18-2011 at 08:56 PM..
Reason: Edited out reference to deleted post
I don't trust that the police will do their jobs properly. Two years ago, one of my neighbors got arrested for murder, but everyone knows it's the local mafia that killed his son for trying to leave the drug dealing business. The police probably didn't want to deal with the mafia and instead just arrested the father since no one in power would stand up for him.
My neighbor was a good man, and the police and authorities are only humans. So no, I don't believe in death penalty.
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There's a big difference there.
