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Old 02-28-2011, 12:21 AM
 
3,573 posts, read 5,460,058 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SifuPhil View Post
Sometimes there are circumstances that ameliorate bonds between family or friends.

Bitterness through medical reasons, for example...terminal illness. One could be displaying bitterness through terminal illness and take one's life. Is that "wrong"?

The "easy way out" might appear to be so through OUR eyes, yet when presented with the fact of imminent painful death it changes character.

(Spoken from personal experience)
I agree with this, Phil. After going through and seeing my husband and father die, I could and would kill myself if I knew that I would have a painful death. It's not selfishness at all. My kids would be there with me until the end. I would just take sleeping pills and be done with it. I think the State of Oregon has it right about allowing you to take your own life.

 
Old 02-28-2011, 02:19 AM
 
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Default Why no sympathy for a bitter man?

Quote:
Originally Posted by donie1 View Post
I agree with this, Phil. After going through and seeing my husband and father die, I could and would kill myself if I knew that I would have a painful death. It's not selfishness at all. My kids would be there with me until the end. I would just take sleeping pills and be done with it. I think the State of Oregon has it right about allowing you to take your own life.
If I knew I was going to suffer a painful death, I would consider my family and their feelings before I ended my own life. I've witnessed the reaction of families many times caused by suicides when I worked for the Oregon State Police. Generally people have a hard time accepting a loved one taking their own life. As far as Oregon State law that allows assisted suicides goes, this state has a bunch of strange laws.
 
Old 02-28-2011, 02:27 AM
 
3,573 posts, read 5,460,058 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nite Ryder View Post
If I knew I was going to suffer a painful death, I would consider my family and their feelings before I ended my own life. I've witnessed the reaction of families many times caused by suicides when I worked for the Oregon State Police. Generally people have a hard time accepting a loved one taking their own life. As far as Oregon State law that allows assisted suicides goes, this state has a bunch of strange laws.
I think my kids would be ok with my suicide if they were there with me and knew that I was at the end of my life. I wouldn't commit suicide at the beginning of my illness but would wait until the pain was unbearable.

If you would suffer a painful death, I don't think you'd like to go out in a undignified way and leave your family to watch you slowly die. That's why I would consider my kids feelings and commit suicide. But to each it's own.

Now, I've known people commit suicide and it makes no sense. My daughter had a friend she grew up with put a gun to his head at the age of 18. Now that's a different suicide then having a incurable terminal disease.
 
Old 02-28-2011, 04:37 AM
 
Location: Wu Dang Mountain
12,941 posts, read 18,867,881 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nite Ryder View Post
If I knew I was going to suffer a painful death, I would consider my family and their feelings before I ended my own life. I've witnessed the reaction of families many times caused by suicides when I worked for the Oregon State Police. Generally people have a hard time accepting a loved one taking their own life. As far as Oregon State law that allows assisted suicides goes, this state has a bunch of strange laws.
Would you, though?

When it gets to the point where the pain is driving you insane, your perspective might change. I think you'd have no thought of family at that point - if you're still lucid enough, you would make your peace with them however you could and end the suffering.

We look at death as merely observers - when we become participants our perspective changes.
 
Old 02-28-2011, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Southwest Desert
4,166 posts, read 5,182,546 times
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My husband was diagnosed with stage 4 pancreatic cancer and only given a few months to live..The diagnosis was totally unexpected and a big shock to all of us!...I sure admired the way my husband conducted himself. He became a "fighter" and extended his life for longer than predicted. He had some "down moments" at times but he never "gave up!" He continued to enjoy life and didn't sit around and feel sorry for himself! He cooked and helped around the house and spent time on his hobbies and "carried on as normal" right up until the very "end." It wasn't his nature to be a "quitter!"
 
Old 02-28-2011, 09:17 AM
 
Location: South FL
9,444 posts, read 14,999,211 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SifuPhil View Post
Would you, though?

When it gets to the point where the pain is driving you insane, your perspective might change. I think you'd have no thought of family at that point - if you're still lucid enough, you would make your peace with them however you could and end the suffering.

We look at death as merely observers - when we become participants our perspective changes.
When people are driven to suicide, they don't think clearly at all. At that moment, the pain is so unbearable that it clouds any type of rational thinking. At that moment, they don't think of their loved ones, they just want for the pain to end.
I've never been put in such situation, although I have felt something close to it before, but not intense enough to become suicidal. At the end of the day, unless we are in their shoes, in the shoes of people who feel that there is no way out, like they'd hit rock bottom and feel suffocated, we cannot judge.
 
Old 02-28-2011, 09:21 AM
 
23,966 posts, read 31,184,409 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by max's mama View Post
When people are driven to suicide, they don't think clearly at all. At that moment, the pain is so unbearable that it clouds any type of rational thinking. At that moment, they don't think of their loved ones, they just want for the pain to end.
I've never been put in such situation, although I have felt something close to it before, but not intense enough to become suicidal. At the end of the day, unless we are in their shoes, in the shoes of people who feel that there is no way out, like they'd hit rock bottom and feel suffocated, we cannot judge.
I agree with that. I think the issue really becomes that some can deal with pain better, more productively, than others.
 
Old 02-28-2011, 09:25 AM
 
Location: South FL
9,444 posts, read 14,999,211 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChessieMom View Post
I agree with that. I think the issue really becomes that some can deal with pain better, more productively, than others.

I agree completely.

I also am not quite sure if terminal illness the best example. I have found that some people actually become fighters and it may even bring the best out of them.
I have noticed that those who bring up misfortunes on themselves are the least likely to be able to deal with them. Like losing all your money or getting involved with drugs...their weaknesses had brought them to the point of no return and now they are too weak to deal with pain either.
 
Old 02-28-2011, 09:34 AM
 
Location: Western Washington
8,004 posts, read 9,679,148 times
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Some of these posts have caused me to re-circle to the point. At first, it started out as, what appeared to be a thread about people who are nasty and bitter, because their lives have been "less than perfect". Actually, it was more about "why bitter men get no sympathy, but bitter women do".

I just don't know what else to say y'all...truly. I'm a nurse, as many of you know. I've seen more situations than I care to think about, and revisualize, where people should have had the right to die, should have never survived things that they're living with...the pain and agony...unfortunately, many of their loved ones wanted for them to hang on for as long as they possibly could, so they could "spend more time with them". It's like a nightmare...one with blood, open sores, and pain throughout. I've seen mentally ill people who, once medicated and feeling like crap because of the side-effects of medications....who become suicidal, because once they're rational, they are exposed to the heinousness of their actions and can't live with the possibility that they'll continue to torment their loved ones and community..not IF, but WHEN they're no longer on their medications.

I still stand on the premise that people who CHOOSE to be bitter, when nothing but truly insignificant setbacks in their lives cause them "discomfort", or inconveniences, are selfish....truly selfish, whether they are men or women. It's a misery loves company game with many of these people. If they are bitter, they're not going to be the only ones. My gosh, there are people on here who have gone through things that the average mind can't even IMAGINE going through, and they're surviving. Why? because they are survivors who know they ar e not alone!
 
Old 02-28-2011, 09:41 AM
 
Location: Southwest Desert
4,166 posts, read 5,182,546 times
Reputation: 3514
Quote:
Originally Posted by max's mama View Post
I agree completely.

I also am not quite sure if terminal illness the best example. I have found that some people actually become fighters and it may even bring the best out of them.
I have noticed that those who bring up misfortunes on themselves are the least likely to be able to deal with them. Like losing all your money or getting involved with drugs...their weaknesses had brought them to the point of no return and now they are too weak to deal with pain either.
When my husband died I felt like "going" too...I felt entitled to "leave" to end my pain and suffering. I went through "hell!" But I kept reminding myself that my life wasn't just "about me!" I didn't want to hurt my son and "leave him high and dry!" We've had so many deaths in our family over the years and I didn't want to make it even worse for my son and other loved ones...So I "kept on going" and found a way to deal with my feelings and "grow stronger." Now I'm glad that I didn't do anything "rash" in the early stages of my grief.
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