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I believe in God & dont think a person has the ability to change his plan for us. Its impossible for us to understand why but we die when God wants us to die & theres nothing we can do about it. In other words interfering with a suicide might be just as much screwing with Gods gift as committing it. Personally I think its a rather personal thing & never could understand why everyone (other than family) gets so involved in it.
I don't believe in god, but even if I did, I would have no idea of knowing whether this god I believed in was willing to change plans for a lowly mortal like I. I'd guess I'd tend towards being a fatalistic deist though in the event that I could ever bring myself to not be an unbeliever.
If you can't pay your own way, who are you sucking dry? As for me, I'll do the honorable thing, should the time come.
As someone who presumably can "pay his own way", whom are you sucking dry/exploiting to create/perpetuate such a circumstance? Self-sufficiency is as much of a myth as rationality, in principle...and in America, the vast majority of people don't even try to masquerade as self-sufficient--people are far too busy conforming to pay convincing lip service to self-sufficiency.
Last edited by Matt Marcinkiewicz; 01-15-2013 at 05:33 AM..
One of the reasons I do not support a more liberal suicide / assisted death culture is precisely people will take advantage of the situation.
Many health insurance plans stipulate that a payout WILL happen if X number of years go by after the contract is formed. Japan has this to the point many have X = 0 (meaning a person could commit suicide immediately after getting a new contract and their family gets a payout ... frequently used by folks who owe the Yaks money).
I remember a wizened old fellow I work with claiming that "his wife had done the math, and he is worth more dead than alive" since she would be the beneficiary for a health insurance payout, his 401(k) and other investments, property they paid off, etc. and he has less than 5 years to go to retire if he retires at an average age.
So, rational suicide is there. I know one guy who said that after he retired, he was going to travel the world with his wife and then the both of them would have "an accident" and die after hitting their bucket list, that way they bequeath the money they invested and earned without having to "leech off it and future generations' livelihoods." That scared me because I like the guy and turns out he eventually did NOT do it ... yet ... , but still ... some people do actually think that way.
A person with mental illness who commits suicide is not necessarily an "irrational" suicide. They may have committed suicide knowing that their illness is incurable and, not wanting to go on for the rest of their lives suffering from that illness that can only be "contained" or "treated" by intensive mind-altering substances and/or judgment and humiliation on the shrink couch, decide that death is better than a miserable, crippled life. A person with schizophrenia who jumps out a window and kills himself to make the "voices" shut up isn't any more "irrational" than a cancer patient who opts for euthanasia to make the cancer cells shut up. A person shouldn't have to suffer through Prozac and/or CBT or ECT any more than someone who opts out of chemo and chooses instead to die under palliative care to reduce pain (but not treat his cancer). The only differences are that cancer itself kills you while mental illness is a slow and torturous hell that allows you to live a long (but not necessarily fulfilling) life. In this case, what doesn't kill you doesn't at all make you stronger. And that the person with cancer in some states is allowed to kill himself safely while the person with schizophrenia just has to "deal with it."
The brain is a physical organ. Mental illness is physical. In my view there's no distinction, and we should just do away with the whole category "mental illness" entirely. Replace it instead with "chronic physical illness" that presents with psychological/mental symptoms, just like Crohn's is a chronic physical illness that presents with digestive symptoms. For some reason we don't attach the same stigma to Crohn's or IBS that we do to manic-depression or anxiety, even though digestive ailments can be pretty unpleasant both to experience and to be in the same room with.
But recall also that psychology/psychiatry is not an exact science, and things we today deem as otherwise harmless or normal parts of life were once considered mental illnesses. Neurasthenia can basically be translated to "stress." PMS aka "female hysteria" (from the Greek "hyster" meaning "womb") was once associated with witchcraft, and the blood that flowed meant you were a murderer or had eaten the village children or mated with a vampire or something. And left-handedness was once thought to mean you were an agent of the devil. Still, if a person is miserable and wants to kill himself because he's ashamed of pulling the trigger as a southpaw, by all means he should be allowed to go ahead. So should a woman or even a teenage girl who decides it's just not worth it to deal with the monthly visit from Aunt Flo and doesn't want to wait until menopause. I don't think a 12-year-old should have to suffer decades more of hell just to meet the "life script" of someday bringing one more mouth to feed into a world of 7 billion plus already.
A person who offs himself to end his suffering from bipolar disorder should have the same right to a safe and legal self-termination as a person who offs himself to end his suffering from AIDS or even non-fatal chronic illnesses like MS, Parkinson's and Lyme disease. An "otherwise healthy" amputee who is miserable having no legs should have the same rights too. The issue here is not severity of illness but quality of life. All those who condemn suicide should try walking in the shoes of someone who's been in an accident and has no feet!
Of course rational suicide is possible. Anyone smart enough can reason that life is pretty futile and stupid and every action one does individually or within a species is worth squat. Why not kill yourself? Give me a Nembutal prescription and I would off myself tomorrow. Too bad that society seems to lock all the peaceful death kits away and force people to die kicking and screaming. Crazy society and dumb civilization.
Yes, rational suicide is possible. Maybe you just don't want to live anymore. If someone hates his life and the daily grind and stresses, who are we to judge them as mentally ill for wanting to end it.
Just for my personal safety, I'm stating that the following is fictional. Do not bother tracing my IP address.
I'm glad I found this thread. My 15 year long, and lucrative, career in the entertainment industry is over. From 6 figures to zero. Can't pay rent and car about to be repossessed. I'm loved, supposedly, but it's unfair to me that people expect me to stick around because I'm so ****ing funny and smart and talented and blah blah blah blah. If nobody is willing to pay me for it, it's absurd to not expect a man to do the right thing. I'm not depressed in any way right now. I'm certainly not happy though and so it is completely rational to end my life. I'm 48 and do not wish to live the rest of my years on welfare. A burden is a burden and society is always better off with non-contributors out of the picture. I've tried applying for jobs outside my industry and all I get is, "We can't hire you, you have an Emmy." Seriously. No BS there. Exact words. They laughably think this industry would ever hire me again and I would leave them in a second. Of course, I'm always looking for any sign of hope, hence posting this. I suspect it will go unread but I can't be blamed for not at least reaching out one last time. The city I've chosen to end my life in is 6 hours from where I live. I'll use the last few hundred bucks I have on gas to drive there tomorrow night. My father was planning on coming out and helping me move 2,000 miles back home and live with him. I've decided there's no way that's going to happen, nor is living on the street an option. It will be harsh on them I know, but nowhere near the never-ending misery my failed life has put them through. I'm confident, in time, once they've gotten through the grieving process, that they will come to the logical conclusion that this was for the best. Yes, there is such thing as rational suicide and you don't need to be mentally ill, terminally ill, or elderly. When the world sends you a resounding message that it just wasn't meant to be, it's time to gracefully exit on your own terms. Suicide hotlines failed me. They mean well but offer no better hope than, "Will you just promise me you won't hurt yourself for tonight." I've run out of "tonights." It actually feels quite surreal right now. Less than 24 hours left. I mean of course this sucks. It would be great if anyone was willing to compensate me for my abilities--any abilities. I'm okay now with the fact that I can no longer make a living from my talents and I'm fine with selling cars, or being a cashier at Target, but nobody will hire me. This is a big decision but this decision has put me at peace with myself. I no longer feel worried about the future as my future now has an expiration date so my stress is actually gone. My only quandary at this point is whether I should or should not leave a not. I feel it's cruel not to, but what the hell do you say? I actually at this point feel that they will get through the grieving process quicker without one. No big grand gestures to stick in their memories. I think that just going quietly in the night will get them to forget about me faster. No pity, no sympathy. Just a completely rational decision that would be hard to argue against. I'll check this forum of course before I leave in the evening. Who knows, there might be some little bit of wisdom that could change my mind, but I've held out hope long enough. Two years of unemployment and losing every friend I've ever had is enough. And the loss of friends is my fault of course. Long term unemployment destroys your self esteem and I just can't bring myself to being social anymore. May you all be blessed in your lives and never forget to be thankful each and every day that you are alive, you have a job, a family, and friends. And remember once you lose all of those things, there is not a thing wrong with calling it quits. We'll all be dead one day anyway. When life is no longer beautiful, it's time to hasten your fate. Thanks in advance to anyone who cares to respond in a kind way. To my family whom, of course, will never read this, I'll still just say that if you ever did, that I love you. To my sister, you were my life as were your two daughters. And to my two nieces, I know that you are too young to understand or process this. I know how much you guys loved me and worshiped me. I'm very proud to have shaped you two with your wonderfully goofy senses of humor. For that fact alone I know my time on Earth had some meaning. One day you will be at peace with this. Just stay strong for now. And to my father, I know that they say there is no greater pain than burying one of your children but do know how irrational it would have been for your 48 year old son to move in with you. It would have been horrible. And I have no chance of ever finding a job back there or anywhere. I love you so much but this was meant to be. Why am I saying all of this when I know you'll surely never see it? I guess I just needed to say this somewhere. Stay strong, and continue to live your beautiful lives knowing that for some, such as myself, when fate is no longer in your hands and you can't make anything in your life work, there is still the hope that you can finally take fate back into your hands and do the noble thing.
I hope to read at least one response but I know I've put an unfair deadline doing this so late.
I understand that, It'sbeenfun. Only you can decide when enough is enough. Suicide hotlines are full of people who may never have thought of suicide. Who are totally not on the same page as the person on the other end of the line. Not saying they don't try to help or try to do what they think is best. And if there is a chance that you can have a good life still, you should not give up on trying but when you've reached the end of the road, only one person can make that decision. Anyone else can tell you this and that because they are afraid or they feel they have to talk you out of it.
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