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Old 11-11-2010, 11:26 PM
 
Location: Murphy, TX
631 posts, read 2,317,518 times
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Suicide is almost always associated with mental health issues and bad circumstances in life leading to it. I have been recently debating weather a mentally stable person can use reasons/facts to determine they should commit suicide?

I personally think people could have nothing wrong with them but end up deciding suicide is a good a choice as any in life. The basic is idea is a person weighs the Pros and Cons of continuing to live life. If the Cons out weighs the Pros, they person can accurately make the judgement it isn't worth living any more. Here is good site with more detailed info: Rational Suicide.

What do you guys think of this topic?

 
Old 11-12-2010, 07:34 AM
 
1,461 posts, read 1,125,103 times
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Sure someone can. Let's say you are a healthy 85 year old. You figure you have had a good life and you are still at your peak and you are at peace with the world and yourself. Why not check out if you want to? It is not up to the govt. to tell you that you can't and it is not up to someone else and their notion of religion to tell you not to. It is the ultimate in individual liberty to make that decision.
 
Old 11-12-2010, 09:16 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn
40,058 posts, read 28,222,927 times
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Who decides what "rational" is? Committing suicide is not a rational act by most standards. People might justify it in their own minds, but as plwhit observed, they aren't concerned with debating the issue.
 
Old 11-12-2010, 09:31 AM
 
Location: NW. MO.
1,817 posts, read 5,475,688 times
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Yes they could. If one has the information that their life conditions have a next to zero chance of improvement and the suffering is too much for them to endure, it could be seen as a rational decision based on the facts.
 
Old 11-12-2010, 09:35 AM
 
Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
8,309 posts, read 31,682,020 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plwhit View Post
What's with the cutesy speak? Maybe a person just wakes up in the morning and says f*ck it...

If the cons outweigh the pros... accurately make the judgement = psycho-speak...

The person kills themselves, you think THEY give a crap whether their decision was accurate or not?
I don't think that's really what the question was about. I think the question is addressing something more like a terminally ill person or perhaps someone in a desperate combat situation in which case I think that suicide could very easily be a rational, reasoned option that someone would elect to take with full mental competence.

I will say that my knee-jerk is to agree with you if suicide is being weighed by someone on the basis of emotional angst.
 
Old 11-12-2010, 09:55 AM
 
Location: Texas
8,668 posts, read 19,143,775 times
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Well, I don't agree with someone doing it in any case. Let me say that at the outset. If someone is in a lot of physical pain etc., I don't think they are insane or irrational to consider this option. That said, for most people, I think God instilled us a pretty strong desire to live. (survival instinct) However, too many times I think the choice of suicide may represent an "permanent "solution" to a temporary season/situation." In short, I think most people who commit suicide (who are not in pain etc.) are probably not necessarily insane, but are indeed severely emotionally troubled at the time, and yes, making irrational choices.
 
Old 11-12-2010, 12:27 PM
 
Location: NYC area
3,486 posts, read 4,689,396 times
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I have a problem with taking suicidal ideation in and of itself as evidence of irrationality.

Here is the difficulty with analyzing suicide in this manner: I believe a person can rationally weigh his situation and experiences and come to a conclusion that he should end his life; at the same time, how those experiences are perceived in the first place is highly subjective. One person's agonizing pain is another person's unbearably excruciating pain; and I am not just talking about physical pain. Moreover, while it's commonplace to say that suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem, I have to point out the obvious in that some problems are ongoing and cannot be resolved. Whenever I hear someone utter that platitude, I am tempted to ask: "But what about permanent problems? Would you support suicide as a reasonable solution to a permanent problem?" In short, I wince at how flippantly people put themselves in the position of evaluating someone else's quality of life, even as I realize that I am sometimes guilty of that very thing.

A while back, I had a long argument with my spouse about Sigmund Freud, who made his exit via a lethal dose of morphine in 1939. My husband argued that because Freud committed suicide, regardless of the surrounding circumstances, none of his opinions have even an ounce of credibility, suicide in and of itself being an irrational act. But I think it's always helpful to look at the context. Freud was 83 years-old. He was suffering from terminal cancer and was in a great deal of pain. He was a refugee in England. He had lost his professorship in the wake of the Anschluss and the Nazi take-over in Austria. His home in Vienna and much of his property were confiscated. Would every person faced with similar circumstances choose to end his life? Of course not. One of the most remarkable Holocaust survivors, Leon Blum, who had served as France's President for two terms prior to the disaster of 1940, was carted off to a concentration camp at the age of 70, but survived, and upon his liberation and return to France, ran for office again, won, and served a third term. But while stories like that certainly exist, I have trouble dismissing Freud's act as irrational. He looked back on his life and realized that it was at an end. He just chose to end it on his own terms and with as much dignity as he could.
 
Old 11-12-2010, 01:29 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,258 posts, read 3,524,008 times
Reputation: 2486
Quote:
Originally Posted by unseengundam View Post
Suicide is almost always associated with mental health issues and bad circumstances in life leading to it. I have been recently debating weather a mentally stable person can use reasons/facts to determine they should commit suicide?

I personally think people could have nothing wrong with them but end up deciding suicide is a good a choice as any in life. The basic is idea is a person weighs the Pros and Cons of continuing to live life. If the Cons out weighs the Pros, they person can accurately make the judgement it isn't worth living any more. Here is good site with more detailed info: Rational Suicide.

What do you guys think of this topic?
I think that regardless of why someone commits suicide a mental issue is at stake. The individual had to rationalize something in order for him to decide to commit suicide. I do not think someone just wakes up and thinks, MMMM? I think I will commit suicide and see how it is like.

People commit suicide for so many reasons. It could be to end pain whether it is emotional or physical to the point that is unbereable to that individual.
Others my find themselve in such a situation where they think there is no other option but to end life so they can get out of that.

Regardless of the reason people are in a very stressful emotional state and at times reasoning abilities are not at full strenght and they may find themselves not able to see many other options available.
That is why many people before they attempt to kill themselve actually do give signals to others of their intentions. It seems it is a subconscious cry for help as many have said when they found themselves considering killing themselves.
In a less extreme case may be when someone had cut off one of their limbs as the only option to ease the pain.
Others jump from a burning fire for a high rise building. Do they think they will survive the jump? Do they really want to jump? Most probably not but the option may be better in their eyes. They were under such stress that they did not see any other way out of the situation so they simply jump, take care.
 
Old 11-12-2010, 01:42 PM
 
Location: San Antonio/Houston
30,020 posts, read 46,126,593 times
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I would say - depends on the age. If someone is old, very old, still thinking clearly, but afraid to get sick,( or is already sick, and knows that it will get only worse), be dependent, loose the mind and be veggie at the nursing home - then YES! This is a reasonable, rational decision that someone might consider.
Now, if a young or fairly young, physically healthy person think about suicide, then that person has some mental issues, that could be (maybe) solved. Thinking about suicide in a young age is not a normal behavior, and should be evaluated.
 
Old 11-12-2010, 01:49 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,258 posts, read 3,524,008 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elnina View Post
I would say - depends on the age. If someone is old, very old, still thinking clearly, but afraid to get sick,( or is already sick, and knows that it will get only worse), be dependent, loose the mind and be veggie at the nursing home - then YES! This is a reasonable, rational decision that someone might consider.
Now, if a young or fairly young, physically healthy person think about suicide, then that person has some mental issues, that could be (maybe) solved. Thinking about suicide in a young age is not a normal behavior, and should be evaluated.
Evaluated? I have no problem with that but not at the expense taking away from and individual his choice to do so. It is HIS life. For people that believe there is a God it is between that individaul and God to deal with. For those that do not believe in God the state should not interfere with his life. Don't take me wrong. There is nothing wrong with preventive measure to help people not to kill themselves. I have take suicide prevention classes myself to help others not to take such extreme measure. But in the end it is their life, take care.
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