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Too many college grads? Certainly not in engineering. Here's a Silicon Valley headhunter on how he can't find Americans to fill Silicon Valley tech jobs-- the vast majority of those applying are Chinese and Indians, although they often have been educated in American universities. My older son graduated with a mechanical engineering degree six years ago, and even then he was a minority in his class-- now it's worse, and in the graduate programs, there are so few Americans it's laughable.
One of the reasons is the one you think-- that Americans can't do the math or science to do well in these programs. But I've heard that there's a second reason-- the universities themselves turn away Americans in favor of the foreigners, because they'll pay higher tuition-- or rather, their governments will. I don't have the proof of that, but it wouldn't surprise me at all. After all, what do you expect when so-called public universities lose more and more public funding, and are expected to raise money however they can? In other words, it's yet another failure of leadership at the highest levels of this country, and that failure is the fault of both parties, our business leaders, and the leaders of our universities. Maximizing short-term profit isn't always the best path for a country to take.
On the average graduate sci&engineering degrees (especially Ph.D.s) are financial losers offering the lowest compensation/chances to succeed/security per unit of your efforts and time as compared to other professional programs. That's why you don't see many mentally able "natives" in the sci&eng graduate schools (especially low ranking graduate schools, especially low ranking Ph.D. programs, these are simply waste of one's life). "Natives" follow the money, they have one life to live, Chinese & Indians pick scraps (that's a reasonable chance considering their circumstances) simple, no need for elaborate and quite ridiculous explanations. >90% of foreigners in sci&eng graduate programs get tuition "waivers" and a modest stipend. They pay nothing for their education, actually they are paid to get educated and to provide cheap and competent research sweatshop labor universities crave for. I have no doubt that universities frequently pick foreigners over natives. Why? As I said before - mentally able "natives" prefer to avoid sci&eng grad schools, it doesn't mean that free graduate education doesn't attract droves of the lesser quality "native" applicants who have heard about the riches a graduate degree conveys .
According to society young people should aim go to college so that they can get a nice job. The number and percentage of college graduates is increasing. However, recently you will hear of high employment rate of college graduates. Many of them had to move back with their parents. There is high competition among the grads themselves and looks like only people from top school can get jobs.
Of course this great for employers since they can now pick the cream of the crop for their job and leave rest of them behind. Which leads to another question, are there going to be enough jobs for these grads in the future? There is a lot of out sourcing going on to China/India for these types of position.
To me looks like the number jobs for graduates is going DOWN but the number of graduates are going UP. Doesn't look like good trend especially since college is expensive!
A better comment would be that there are too many people - not enough jobs for all.
I'm probably going to hire someone with a degree over someone without one for almost any position.
If nothing else, completing college shows that you can stick to a task when it's easier to quit.
Last edited by chielgirl; 06-08-2012 at 06:56 AM..
On the average graduate sci&engineering degrees (especially Ph.D.s) are financial losers offering the lowest compensation/chances to succeed/security per unit of your efforts and time as compared to other professional programs. That's why you don't see many mentally able "natives" in the sci&eng graduate schools (especially low ranking graduate schools, especially low ranking Ph.D. programs, these are simply waste of one's life). "Natives" follow the money, they have one life to live, Chinese & Indians pick scraps (that's a reasonable chance considering their circumstances) simple, no need for elaborate and quite ridiculous explanations. >90% of foreigners in sci&eng graduate programs get tuition "waivers" and a modest stipend. They pay nothing for their education, actually they are paid to get educated and to provide cheap and competent research sweatshop labor universities crave for. I have no doubt that universities frequently pick foreigners over natives. Why? As I said before - mentally able "natives" prefer to avoid sci&eng grad schools, it doesn't mean that free graduate education doesn't attract droves of the lesser quality "native" applicants who have heard about the riches a graduate degree conveys .
Do you have ANY idea of what you're talking about, what the job prospects are for graduates of science and engineering masters' and doctorate programs? And do you really think that the Americans in those programs are "lesser quality?" I'd be interested in seeing some facts to back this up. Or do you just dream these "facts" up because they fit into your belief system, or whatever it is?
I have yet to meet an engineering grad student who thought his or her degree was a ticket to "riches," and I'm in a position to have met many of them over the years. They're generally pretty nerdy (regardless of where they come from) and they've discovered they like the work and the intellectual rigor. And because I've met a number of them, I've watched where they go when they graduate. If they're willing to go into the private sector, there's always jobs available, unless there's an absolute depression in their field, like in petroleum engineering when crude oil went down to $10/barrel in the mid-1980s. But right now, new PhDs in petroleum engineering can move into great jobs with oil companies or oil service companies. Same goes for lots of other fields-- aerospace engineers (got a nephew whose fellow MS Eng. grads in aerospace engineering all graduated with jobs in hand, averaging $65k/year), even in the classic fields like mechanical or civil engineering, they all get good jobs and can usually choose between the private sector and good academic jobs.
Then there's my son with his mechanical engineering bachelor's degree, who's enrolled in an executive MBA program with a national top-10 business school. That's the credential the president of his company (Fortune 100 rating) has, along with at least half of the company's senior executives. Yeah, they're sure stupid for getting that technical degree first.
But are they all more stupid than Ivy League-educated masters of the universe working on Wall Street who pout unless they get seven-figure bonuses every Christmas? Maybe that's the wrong question-- maybe the relevant question should be, who's contributing more to their country, and their world?
But don't believe me or the Silicon Valley headhunter who says he can't find enough people with postgraduate degrees in computer science or engineering to fill open positions. It sounds like you know all there is to know on the subject.
The pendulum always swings. We all grew up in an era where the importance of higher education was stressed to us almost on a daily basis. Today there aren't enough of any type of decent jobs to go around and most degree plans are proving to be useless.
If I had a child graduating from HS this year, I would urge him/her to investigate being a plumber or electrician. Those are jobs that can't be outsourced. You can work for yourself or someone else. You could make a decent living just trolling for jobs on craigslist. People will always need these two professions. Then if junior wanted to continue and go to university in addition to a trade, great. He/she can pay for it and study whatever they want for the sake of learning. At their own pace.
I would have to think real hard about paying for a degree that most likely wouldn't help my child be successful.
Don't believe all you read about engineers being in demand. Engineers/scientists have become throw away contract employees. It's difficult to find a real job. A lot of this 'shortage' is invented by companies wanting to procure H1B visas to hire folks from other countries.
I have technical degrees and I haven't worked in my field for 4 years. I saw a great job add the other day for a chemist. I was all psyched to apply till I saw the salary... $10 per hour. And they required a degree and at least 2 years experience. Yeah, I'll be telling my kid to get a degree in chemistry!
Last edited by yellowsnow; 06-09-2012 at 11:26 PM..
Reason: added
College has become too mainstream. Thus we end up with "universities" such as Devry or University of Phoenix. "Schools" there simply for the cash, who dumb down curriculum just to get students through.
I also don't agree with the increase in online schooling. Online schooling is too easy. Any mindless dolt can get through it. I have taken online courses, and I no longer do so.
There may be an increase in college graduates, but with the increase in quick for profit schools and online classes, the quality has declined.
Overall though, I believe a college degree is even more essential for the future going forward. Technical skills can always be picked up, but the way college costs are going, they'll never be more affordable than now.
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