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Old 01-14-2011, 06:06 AM
 
Location: NEPA
2,009 posts, read 3,764,636 times
Reputation: 1960

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
Brought this up in another thread, but I thought it'd be an interesting topic to debate.

Why is incest wrong?

I personally think that incest is wrong, its not right for me. But that doesn't mean I'm going to tell someone else what to do with their lives.

There is no biological evidence that incest between father/daughter and brother/sister is bad physically. If there is a family history of a genetic disorder, its more likely to occur in the child. But, they aren't more likely to have birth defects, mental illness, or things of that nature.

So, if incest isn't as bad as we've all been told biologically, why is it so taboo?

Like I said, I'm not promoting incest, its most definitely not right for me.
Why is it wrong? It's disgusting and watch the episode "The Peacocks" from the XFiles.

 
Old 01-14-2011, 06:13 AM
 
7,801 posts, read 6,340,053 times
Reputation: 2988
Quote:
Originally Posted by sues1 View Post
Why is it wrong? It's disgusting
It is disgusting to YOU maybe, but that does not mean it is disgusting in and of itself.

There are many things that disgust me. Coffee is one clear example. I hate the stuff, I can not drink it, and if it is made strong enough I can not even be in the same room as it as the smell repels me. Everything about coffee disgusts me.

Does that mean I can now say “Drinking coffee is wrong because it is disgusting”? Clearly not and most people would laugh at me if I did. Instead what I do is I simply do not drink the stuff. I do not like it…. so I do not have it.

The same is true of incest. If it is disgusting to you… do not do it. Simple as. However automatically extrapolating your personal distaste to a generalised statement is… were I to be asked…. Exactly how I would define the word “bigotry”.
 
Old 01-14-2011, 07:56 AM
 
Location: Toledo
3,860 posts, read 8,428,008 times
Reputation: 3732
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post
Indeed this is also true!

However the issue is that there are a, sometimes significant, number of people who do not want to stop at merely saying that they are uncomfortable with what people do in their bedroom.... but they want to have said actions labelled immoral, evil, wrong, or even illegal!

There literally are people who think "X is disgusting or unpleasant to me.... therefore no one should be doing it".

Why people should think that way is a constant mystery to me, but THAT often think that way is pretty clear. I can only guess at the why. Maybe they just do not want to think that there are avenues of pleasure and/or happiness open to people in this world that are closed to them.
That's on them. Most people don't care about what goes on in other folks bedroom. It becomes an issue when people want to make their business public or if someone is being violated. I have no idea if anyone around me is doing their blood relative and quite frankly I don't want to know. If they decide to make their incestuous relationship public, then they need to be prepared to handle the negative views. No one has the right to have their lifestyle validated.
 
Old 01-14-2011, 08:21 AM
 
7,801 posts, read 6,340,053 times
Reputation: 2988
But also no one deserves to have it reviled either. If they choose to take a romantic partner for the rest of their life, this is not information they should be forced to keep secret lest they face anger, the same as when gay people get together and choose to dedicate their life to each other.

Just because we do not approve of someones chosen partner, does not give us some magical right to deride them.
 
Old 01-14-2011, 09:40 AM
 
1,028 posts, read 3,070,820 times
Reputation: 959
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post
Again I did not see your reply straight away because of your constant inability to use the quote function... one of the forums simplest features. Maybe it might be worth messaging the moderators for some assistance in using this feature that most other people seem well capable of engaging with?

No the piece you bolded has nothing to do with "strong feelings". You may have missed (or chosen to ignore?) the important "maybe" qualifier at the start of the sentence. The sentence is mere speculation and no more. Feelings do not come into it whatsoever.



Yes this is indeed a big problem in the discussion. The fact we have one word for a huge number of things. It is like the word "sport". We have sports like Boxing... and we have sports like grass bowling. They have very little in common aside from perhaps breathing. Yet we have one word for both.

The same issue is an issue with incest and I think the fact we have one word for it all serves only to cloud and color the issue in peoples minds.



I can. And I do. But only where the person with those personal morals is not able to translate their concerns into universal ones. If the personal morals are baseless then of course those personal morals can not be applied to others.

If there is a good basis however, that the person can argue, then yes those personal morals become relevant.




Another convenient cop out for you. I addressed your argument and replied to it. If you want to run away then run away. If you want to reply to what I wrote then reply to what I wrote.

What I will not accept is people declaring by fiat that they do not need to back up what they say. That really IS a cop out and that really IS what you just did in the post I replied to. Please go back and re-read what I wrote.
Personal beliefs, convictions, etc., do not have to be justified when it comes to things that are not harmful or toxic to others, such as believing that it is not appropriate to have sexual relations with your family members. If it is not in another person's belief system then so be it, it still does not mean that one person is wrong where the other is right, and I am certain that neither the person who believes in it nor the one who is against it could be convinced otherwise. It just is what it is, no need for justification. Some people enjoy eating paper towels. I can come up with a lot of reasons to justify why it is their right to do so, but personally, I am put off by it. Does that mean it is meaningless and baseless that I am against eating paper towels? No. Does this mean I need to evaluate my thought process and justify why it is my belief that this is wrong, even though it does not hurt the person? No. Does this mean that society must be more accepting of paper towel eaters? No. It is not a food group. Just like for many people, family members are not in the sexual partner group. This is not a philosophy class lecture, it is an opinion based thread. Don't be so quick to assume that everybody on here has to justify what they say to your personal standards.
 
Old 01-14-2011, 09:48 AM
 
7,801 posts, read 6,340,053 times
Reputation: 2988
Mod cut: Post quoted here deleted thus orphaning response.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackinyc View Post
(BTW there is a HUGE difference between distant cousins having a relationship then a mother and son)
Have you considered maybe reading what people write before you reply to them? I already talked about this difference in my own post here. Do you normally disagree with people by repeating to them exactly their own points???? Odd.

Last edited by skinem; 01-15-2011 at 08:07 PM..
 
Old 01-14-2011, 09:54 AM
 
527 posts, read 1,016,332 times
Reputation: 548
You Only said about consenting adults- I dont care what age, parents and their children or brothers and sisters shouldnt be getting it on at any age.
 
Old 01-14-2011, 09:56 AM
 
7,801 posts, read 6,340,053 times
Reputation: 2988
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvjd View Post
Personal beliefs, convictions, etc., do not have to be justified when it comes to things that are not harmful or toxic to others, such as believing that it is not appropriate to have sexual relations with your family members.
I am afraid they do if those personal beliefs are going to somehow affect others, such as when people want to label the action "immoral" "ammoral" or even "illegal" which is what many people here want to do.

What needs to be justified is that the action IS harmful or toxic. You do not just get to declare it is. Things do not become true simply because you choose to say they are true.

If there are arguments against it, then simply present them. This constant cop out by many users who are simply saying "It is wrong because it just is and I do not need to back that up" really just shows us that people do not even know themselves why they thing it wrong and that is worrying.

But as often happens when people do not know why they think the way they do, they just go on and on making excuses for this, rather than sitting down and questioning why. This is a weakness I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pvjd View Post
This is not a philosophy class lecture, it is an opinion based thread.
False actually. I think if you move your eyes to the top of the screen you will find this is a thread in the DEBATE section of the forum. Debates are not where people merely express their opinion and then run away. Debates are where people choose a side and defend that side with arguments, with evidence, with data and with reasoning.

If you want to simply express what your opinion is and leave then I must question your choice to come to this part of the forum. Read the actual charter of this forum. It is in a STICKY POST HERE for all to read. Let me quote some of it to help you out:

Quote:
Great Debates is meant for respectful, intelligent, serious, well thought-out, slower-paced debates
Quote:
Providing citations and explaining your reasoning is encouraged.
So no simply saying "it is wrong because it just is and I dont need to back that up" is not what this forum is about. Sorry.
 
Old 01-14-2011, 10:01 AM
 
527 posts, read 1,016,332 times
Reputation: 548
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post
I am afraid they do if those personal beliefs are going to somehow affect others, such as when people want to label the action "immoral" "ammoral" or even "illegal" which is what many people here want to do.
What needs to be justified is that the action IS harmful or toxic. You do not just get to declare it is. Things do not become true simply because you choose to say they are true.

If there are arguments against it, then simply present them. This constant cop out by many users who are simply saying "It is wrong because it just is and I do not need to back that up" really just shows us that people do not even know themselves why they thing it wrong and that is worrying.

Hey I believe it is already have been established here in the USA that Incest is unacceptable. Mod cut.

Last edited by skinem; 01-17-2011 at 11:15 AM..
 
Old 01-14-2011, 10:38 AM
 
1,028 posts, read 3,070,820 times
Reputation: 959
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post
I am afraid they do if those personal beliefs are going to somehow affect others, such as when people want to label the action "immoral" "ammoral" or even "illegal" which is what many people here want to do.

What needs to be justified is that the action IS harmful or toxic. You do not just get to declare it is. Things do not become true simply because you choose to say they are true.

If there are arguments against it, then simply present them. This constant cop out by many users who are simply saying "It is wrong because it just is and I do not need to back that up" really just shows us that people do not even know themselves why they thing it wrong and that is worrying.

But as often happens when people do not know why they think the way they do, they just go on and on making excuses for this, rather than sitting down and questioning why. This is a weakness I think.


False actually. I think if you move your eyes to the top of the screen you will find this is a thread in the DEBATE section of the forum. Debates are not where people merely express their opinion and then run away. Debates are where people choose a side and defend that side with arguments, with evidence, with data and with reasoning.

If you want to simply express what your opinion is and leave then I must question your choice to come to this part of the forum. Read the actual charter of this forum. It is in a STICKY POST HERE for all to read. Let me quote some of it to help you out:




So no simply saying "it is wrong because it just is and I dont need to back that up" is not what this forum is about. Sorry.
I hear what you are saying, but if I personally do not believe in incest and think it is not appropriate, I am not exactly making anything difficult for others. The vast majority of people who have an opinion one way or the next do not go around villianizing people with opposing lifestyles and viewpoints. As I said, if I am against one thing but someone else is not, it makes absolutely no difference to me and I do not ask for justification from the person because I do not feel that I must justify myself. There are no picket lines, marches, demonstrations, tshirts, or bumper stickers stating that I believe incest is wrong and/or immoral, so it does not hurt anybody else. I have not once indicated that a person who is involved in an adult incestuous relationship is immoral, amoral, or criminal, but that does not ever mean that I must agree to it, or concede that I am somehow wrong for my belief that I personally do not condone it. Live and let live is my motto, even if I don't agree. This is not an oppressed group of people, it is not like one of the ism's, so I am not hurting anything or anyone by saying that it is not my cup of tea. No justification needed, it just is simply because.
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