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Old 01-07-2011, 02:05 AM
 
Location: Prepperland
13,116 posts, read 9,202,467 times
Reputation: 8988

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
What you are failing to consider is the spirit the Union was founded on. The Union was founded on principals that recognized the freedoms of the people and of the States, and included safeguards against the formation of a central tyrannical government. Those safeguards and the freedoms that went with them have been all but abolished.
There was one principal established before the Constitution, which is the supreme principal of freedom.

"that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness".
If you mean that job no. 1 = secure rights, and job no. 2 = govern those who consent, then we're in agreement.
However, you should also note that consent waives job no. 1.
For proof - see "militia". The militia are under obligation to train, fight and die on command. That is certainly a violation of the inalienable rights to life, liberty, and property ownership.

For a more complete understanding, look up the legal definition of the four types of liberty: natural, personal, civil and political.
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Old 01-07-2011, 07:30 AM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,797 posts, read 6,119,545 times
Reputation: 5171
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrummerBoy View Post
So...your post refers to us as being "ignorant" as well as "fools." Funny, in view of the fact that you seem to have brazenly and rudely skewed the OP, which had nothing to do with the poltical--and bilical, since your brought your Creator into it--ramifications or nuances--of statehood. The Op was a simple, light-hearted question regarding emotional allegience to our respective states.
So hears an idea: take your tripe to the Politics forum. And your "creator" bit to the Religion section.
And...uhhh.. a chill pill might be a good idea for ya as well.
BTW...Anytime you'd like to debate politics, I'm game; I have my degree in PoliSci. From a University in The Great State of Texas. Whom I love above my country.
So there! LOL.
Actually my response was directed at people who believe they are Americans first and that their loyalty to their state comes second. A point of view, which by its existence, shows a lack of understanding of the structure of their own Citizenship.
In a republic, we as Citizens are charged with the responsibility to be well informed in order to fulfill our responsibilities.
The majority of us have been painfully negligent in this respect. The result has been a country that is out of control and spiraling downward. Perhaps that does not bother you, but it angers me to no end.
I hope you do something worthwhile with your PoliSci degree, because we have a multitude of people in government now with the same education that are literally ruining the country and everything it once stood for.
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Old 01-07-2011, 08:42 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,505 posts, read 49,547,847 times
Reputation: 24548
My allegiance and duty is to my family, my friends and myself. I no longer owe any respect, allegiance or duty to my town, state or country because they have not kept their part of the bargain. "Liberty and Justice for All" is a delusion.

I follow their rules because I fear them, not because I respect them.
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Old 01-07-2011, 08:57 AM
 
Location: Whiteville Tennessee
8,262 posts, read 15,964,314 times
Reputation: 10024
My loyalty will always lie first with my state. I believe states must retain the most power over their affairs in order to make sure federal government cannot become too powerful. A too powerful central government allows the opportunity for a few to make and enforce the rules over the many. Part of me does think we are headed toward a showdown on the matter of states rights. The Feds are attempting to usurp power the Constitution gives to the States. This is not sitting well in states that have long had a reputation for hardheadedness. [Way Down Yonder in the Land of Cotton] I'm not sure if we will see another 1861, but "something" is brewing.
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Old 01-09-2011, 09:35 PM
 
Location: Orlando, Florida
43,858 posts, read 43,564,164 times
Reputation: 58603
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt. Dan View Post
My loyalty will always lie first with my state. I believe states must retain the most power over their affairs in order to make sure federal government cannot become too powerful. A too powerful central government allows the opportunity for a few to make and enforce the rules over the many. Part of me does think we are headed toward a showdown on the matter of states rights. The Feds are attempting to usurp power the Constitution gives to the States. This is not sitting well in states that have long had a reputation for hardheadedness. [Way Down Yonder in the Land of Cotton] I'm not sure if we will see another 1861, but "something" is brewing.
I am prone to agree with you.

America is too big and diverse to run one state the same as another. If we continue to let the federal government disrespect and push aside state rights....then we will become much like China or Russia. Nothing will work anywhere.
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Old 01-13-2011, 01:19 PM
 
Location: somewhere in the woods
16,886 posts, read 12,538,974 times
Reputation: 5210
I love the country, but cant stand the goverment. whether it is democrats or republicans in office they both suck. I am for very limited goverment, or about .1% of its current size with no social or welfare programs at all and a budget about .001% that it currently is.
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Old 01-14-2011, 07:02 AM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,797 posts, read 6,119,545 times
Reputation: 5171
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
If you mean that job no. 1 = secure rights, and job no. 2 = govern those who consent, then we're in agreement.
However, you should also note that consent waives job no. 1.
For proof - see "militia". The militia are under obligation to train, fight and die on command. That is certainly a violation of the inalienable rights to life, liberty, and property ownership.

For a more complete understanding, look up the legal definition of the four types of liberty: natural, personal, civil and political.
While this is true, again we have to take this within the context of the intent.
Reading the papers of the forefathers makes it very clear that they were opposed to foreign wars and considered the militia to be an instrument of self defense.
While it is a little hard to understand why anyone would need to be obliged to protect themselves, I suppose there are those that without it would not.
I am sure the architects of our government are now rolling in their graves at the use of military force to secure profits for corporations.
Of course they did not trust corporations any more than they did powerful central governments or central banking. Now we know why.
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Old 01-16-2011, 03:07 AM
 
Location: the illegal immigrant state
757 posts, read 1,415,768 times
Reputation: 1013
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinE View Post
An no, loving them equally isn't a valid answer.

So what say you?
It's not a "valid" answer because Kevin says so?

That's not very convincing.

I'm loyal to them both equally, whether Kevin can accept that or not, and Kevin really doesn't need to know who or what I love. That's creepy, Kevin.
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Old 01-20-2011, 09:15 AM
 
Location: Burnsville, Minnesota
2,702 posts, read 2,041,103 times
Reputation: 1455
No, I'm an American before I'm a Minnesotan. I wasn't even born in Minnesota; I was born in North Dakota, but I've lived a majority of my life in Minnesota.

Plus, I don't like the winters here. I wish that I could live in California or Florida.
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Old 07-12-2012, 08:31 PM
 
Location: Cody, WY
9,184 posts, read 10,131,783 times
Reputation: 18268
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
I presume you mean "secede". Emancipation is not what you think it means.
The Articles of Confederation

Agreed to by Congress November 15, 1777; ratified and in force, March 1, 1781.
Preamble

To all to whom these Presents shall come, we the undersigned Delegates of the States affixed to our Names send greeting.

Whereas the Delegates of the United States of America in Congress assembled did on the fifteenth day of November in the Year of our Lord One Thousand Seven Hundred and Seventy seven, and in the Second Year of the Independence of America, agree to certain articles of Confederation and perpetual Union between the States of New Hampshire, Massachusetts-bay, Rhode Island and Providence Plantations, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina and Georgia, in the words following, viz:

Articles of Confederation and perpetual Union between the States of New Hampshire, Massachusetts-bay, Rhode Island and Providence Plantations, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina and Georgia.
A perpetual union cannot be dissolved.
(The USCON did not abolish the Articles of Confederation. But incorporated them, by reference, in Article 6, USCON.)
The central government violated the treaty of confederation (it was a treaty) thereby nullifying it. We now are completely justified in separating from the central government either as individual states or as the whole of the states. If Wyoming goes its own way I'll go with it.
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