Racism towards whites - does it exist? (employment, minimum wage, Mexicans)

[Braunwyn]

Originally Posted by miu

Chronic whiners and complainers are just as annoying to read as "braggers".

The mind set of "feel sorry for me" is so foreign. I can't wrap my head around it.

I suppose that no loser in life wants to read how others have succeeded without apparent effort on their part. But in these amateur discussions that we have on the C-D forum, all posters will bring their personal experiences and observations to the threads. Obviously, not every person reacts to the same way to a given situation or circumstance. So in this thread, not all non-whites feel the same way towards whites as a group.

When I read articles like the roots one I linked yesterday, the take home message from my pov, IRT white women benefiting the most from AA, is that it's a matter of a gift, or like winning the lottery, rather than hard work, planning, and motivation. For the last 30 years there have been a boat load of programs available to women and minorities. Pausing to address why one group succeeded and another fell short has merit imo.

It's also disingenuous to imply that success on the part of minorities is via merit, but if it's white women it's something else.

For example, and drawing on my first link...

Women benefit tremendously, and white women are the primary beneficiaries of affirmative action programs:

• According to the United States Labor Department, the primary beneficiaries of affirmative action are white women ("Reverse Discrimination," 1995). The Department of Labor estimated that 6 million women workers are in higher occupational classifications today than they would have been without affirmative action policies.
• Gender based affirmative action policies that benefit women run the gamut from science camps for girls to policies at the University of Michigan that promote the enrollment of women in engineering programs to breast cancer screenings and women-only domestic violence shelters.
• Outreach, recruitment, and scholarships for women encourage participation in fields like medicine, science, computers and engineering,fields in which they are seriously underrepresented
• Government outreach programs ensure that women and minority owned businesses have a fair chance to secure government contracts.

Have not all of the above been available to minorities? Are these science camps for girls white only? No. Are policies at UMich that promote women in engineering for whites only? No. Are domestic violence shelters for women for whites only? No. And how about scholarships? I linked a page from the Harvard website with a list of scholarships that excludes whites, and that means white women too. And then the final bullet is also available to minorities.

Clearly, all of these outreach programs amount to more than a white man making a decision for who gets a promotion. They all involve active participation on the part of the user. And if a person isn't using available resources, then s/he should figure out why.

[Tin Knocker]

Originally Posted by MrSykes

You know very well that racial profiling never works "all the way around." No one has ever called for a "closer eye" on white males as a group in order to identify the potential spree shooters, serial killers or pedophiles. It is almost always a means for singling out minorities (whether it's blacks in the inner city, Arabs at the airport, or Hispanics in Arizona) on the basis of fear and prejudice.

or possibly just a common sense thing since most violent crime is commited by black people in inner cities, most modern terrorists are Arabic & most illegals are Latino. When the Mafia was all the rage the LE community focused on Italian people, no different, just common sense. We are today expected to ignore common sense & tolerate crime in order to prevent some paranoid people from being offended. Its people like yourself that do more to perpetuate racism than anything else.

Moreover, you cannot be both for racial profiling and against affirmative action, because the way you put it, they are essentially the same thing; it's just a different group being targeted for their race for different reasons.

What crap. Unless you can provide evidence that one or another ethnic or racial group is more likely to be better at a job, as is can be proven that one ethnicity or race is more likely to be a drug dealer, illegal immigrant or terrorist your analogy is useless.
Even if you can its still not the same thing because giving one group extra credit for nothing but race (as in affirmitive action) is not the same as credidint a group with things it is actually doing is the case with most racial profiling.

Even your first sentence is misleading, every time a white person is sought for a crime, they look for & single out white people, whites are definately targeted in investigation of recent militia groups, white supremecy groups, as repugnant as they are, are the focus of racial profiling. In every way your point is flawed.

[Tin Knocker]

Originally Posted by artwomyn

What you don't get, is even thought we have a black President, racism against blacks didn't suddenly disappear. And Affirmative Action, has benefitted white women, more than it has minorities. We don't need for innocent blacks, to be racially profiled. If the black person isn't a suspect in a crime, why should they get pulled over by the cops? Why should innocent blacks be followed around stores, if they haven't shoplifted anything, and don't even look suspicious? Yet these things happen to innocent blacks all of the time.

Those things happen to innocent whites all the time too. My sons are often followed around stores because kids often steal, should I act as if thats not the case or become belligerant because people are looking at my kids as if they might do what kids before them have done? As long as they are not arrested & hassled it simply doesn't matter. If a person isn't suspected of a crime they arent pulled over. You & I both know that there are lawyers lined up to take cases where the police actually violate a black mans civil rights. I cant say racism is gone, I can & do say its not as bad as you seem to think & certainly can not hjold you back unless you let it.

As for the workplace, blacks are still the first fired, and the last hired. Whites get paid more for the same job, and get raises and promotions, more than their black counterparts. And if blacks have it so good in the workplace, then how come the black unemployed rate, is now, as always, about twice what it is for whites?

More crap. Again we both know that there are lawyers looking for cases of racial discrimination in the workplace. Black unemployment has always been higher than whites. I blame people such as yourself who preach how the deck is stacked against them more than anything else. Why should a young black person who grows up hearing how hard it is have any confidence in his/herself finding a good job?

And why do blacks as a group, still wind up in the worst neighborhoods, and in substandard housing, disproportionate to their numbers in the population? Why are blacks disproportionately arrested, and sent to prisons? Why do blacks have fewer assets, than whites at the same income levels do? You need to look at the overall picture, of how blacks fare relative to whites, rather than just at a few blacks, that have reached positions of power.

Read my answer above, they live in the worst neighborhoods because they fall for the black activist mantra that they are stuck there, held down by the white man. They get arrested & sent to prison more because they often turn to crime at a younger age in response to haveing been taught they cant make it in the outside world. I do look at the whole picture, the few that overcome years of teaching that they cant get out & actually do get out are often very sucessfull. Just imagine how quickly it would change if all the effort used to teach them they are repressed was used to teach them to reach for the stars. Black people are not stupid, they are manipulated by people who benefit from their plight, by those who perpetuate the racism so they have a cause.

So though there may be racism against whites, blacks and other minorities, are much more negatively affected by racism that's directed towards them from whites, than whites who experience racism from minorities are.

In your mind perhaps. The reality however is that they are negatively effected by people such as yourself who simply wont let go.
I'm 44, when I was in school race didn't matter until inner city black kids were bussed in, hung out & started fighting in groups, we'd call them gangs today, but the fact is THEY created social unrest because they were taught to do so & in doing they created racism among kids who before that thought nothing of a black kid, other than as another child.
My son today goes to the same school, its very very common to see young black & white kids dateing, the parents couldn't care less in most cases. I sure wouldn't care. My only hope is that these kids make it to adults before they realize that we are all just making believe they're not being discriminated against. That they never learn to be so blind as to lose touch with common sense, that they not let people like you hold them back in the hopes that you can teach another generation to get stuck in a ghetto instead of looking up & moving forward.
Some people cannot see the forest for the trees.

[fallingwater]

Yes, I have experienced racism as a white woman. Has it stopped me from accomplishing somethings? Yes. Has it kept me from obtaining my dreams or life goals? No. I think that is pretty much the difference if I had to compare my experience to those that have experienced racism where it hinders all of life's accomplishments.

I worked in a youth home that was managed black supervisors and most of the employees were black. For the first 6 months I was referred to as "white girl". I later learned that most white employees quit early on. I hung in there and after a small blow out with a few of the employees I started to obtain respect and was actually called by my name. I thought I had somehow obtained acceptance but after a couple of years, I tried for promotions and so forth. I was told that "they only promote their own." This type of racism stopped me from moving up. So I got a different job.

Many years later after losing my job with the airline industry I took a job working retail. During orientation and a training period of several weeks I befriended a lovely woman who was black. She and I had a lot in common especially since we both had been laid off from the same company. We both chose to work the midnight shift since it paid several dollars more per hour. We were both trying to recoop as much as we could to boost our new meager salaries. The first night on our shift we agreed to have lunch together in the lunchroom. When I walked in she was already seated with several women that are black. She waved me over and as I went to pull out a chair, one of the women at the table threw her foot on it. She rudely told me the seat was taken. When I went to pull out the second chair, the woman did it again and yelled at me, "what don't you understand white girl! We don't want you here!" I looked at my friend and she kept her eyes down cast. I chose another table. When we made our way back to the floor, my friend apologized. She admitted she was having a hard time being accepted because she was considered high yellow due to her light skin tone and how she presented herself because she "acted white." I let it go and did not sit with my friend at lunch. These ladies chose their own segregation. Sadly over time, my new friend and I talked less. She seemed more worried about pleasing the black workers and acting a certain way.

A year later I was given a wonderful job opportunity and quit. My new boss said he really needed to hire another person and asked me if I knew anyone that was a dependable hard worker. Yes, I knew of someone. I went to approach my friend about this possible opportunity but she blew me off because the "others" were around. I told her to call me. She never did. So with her being so consumed with what others thought, she missed out on obtaining a better job. That was 5 years ago and the last I heard she was still stuck working there.

Racism is rapid on both sides but I think whites tend to ignore it as it does not hinder most of their activities or accomplishments. IMO, when whites experience racism they simply remove themselves from the situation when they can. On the other side of the issue, a minority may not have that luxury.

[artwomyn]

Originally Posted by Tin Knocker

Those things happen to innocent whites all the time too. My sons are often followed around stores because kids often steal, should I act as if thats not the case or become belligerant because people are looking at my kids as if they might do what kids before them have done? As long as they are not arrested & hassled it simply doesn't matter. If a person isn't suspected of a crime they arent pulled over. You & I both know that there are lawyers lined up to take cases where the police actually violate a black mans civil rights. I cant say racism is gone, I can & do say its not as bad as you seem to think & certainly can not hjold you back unless you let it.



More crap. Again we both know that there are lawyers looking for cases of racial discrimination in the workplace. Black unemployment has always been higher than whites. I blame people such as yourself who preach how the deck is stacked against them more than anything else. Why should a young black person who grows up hearing how hard it is have any confidence in his/herself finding a good job?



Read my answer above, they live in the worst neighborhoods because they fall for the black activist mantra that they are stuck there, held down by the white man. They get arrested & sent to prison more because they often turn to crime at a younger age in response to haveing been taught they cant make it in the outside world. I do look at the whole picture, the few that overcome years of teaching that they cant get out & actually do get out are often very sucessfull. Just imagine how quickly it would change if all the effort used to teach them they are repressed was used to teach them to reach for the stars. Black people are not stupid, they are manipulated by people who benefit from their plight, by those who perpetuate the racism so they have a cause.




In your mind perhaps. The reality however is that they are negatively effected by people such as yourself who simply wont let go.
I'm 44, when I was in school race didn't matter until inner city black kids were bussed in, hung out & started fighting in groups, we'd call them gangs today, but the fact is THEY created social unrest because they were taught to do so & in doing they created racism among kids who before that thought nothing of a black kid, other than as another child.
My son today goes to the same school, its very very common to see young black & white kids dateing, the parents couldn't care less in most cases. I sure wouldn't care. My only hope is that these kids make it to adults before they realize that we are all just making believe they're not being discriminated against. That they never learn to be so blind as to lose touch with common sense, that they not let people like you hold them back in the hopes that you can teach another generation to get stuck in a ghetto instead of looking up & moving forward.
Some people cannot see the forest for the trees.

Nobody has to convince blacks that they are at a disadvantage, in a white society. They already know that, from their own personal experiences. If you, or another white person that you know, has had negative experiences with blacks, that doesn't mean that we're all racists against whites. More importantly, how has any negative experiences that you've had with blacks, stopped you from acheiving what you've wanted to in life?

White women who have benefitted from from Affirmative action, may not always be as qualified as some might think. So it's not right to assume that they ALWAYS succeed, due to being better qualified than other job candidates. Saying something like that, means that it's just an assumption. Many assume that if a white person gets ahead, that it's all due to their own merit. Whereas if a black person gets ahead, it's usually assumed by many white people, to be because of quotas and Affirmative action, and not because of merit.

As for people on this forum being considered 'losers' by some of you posters, just because they aren't 'successful' in your opinion, is just another form of prejudice. On the other hand, bragging is a form of insecurity, because the braggert needs to feel more important than, and superior to other people. Which is a very sad thing.

I don't condone any form of racism, or discrimination. I will say, that just because minorities may have more opportunities now than they did 50 years ago, doesn't mean that whites can't get ahead anymore.

[MrSykes]

Originally Posted by Tin Knocker

or possibly just a common sense thing since most violent crime is commited by black people in inner cities, most modern terrorists are Arabic & most illegals are Latino. When the Mafia was all the rage the LE community focused on Italian people, no different, just common sense. We are today expected to ignore common sense & tolerate crime in order to prevent some paranoid people from being offended. Its people like yourself that do more to perpetuate racism than anything else.

What you characterize as being "common sense" is nothing more than intellectual laziness giving way to casual, guilt-free bigotry. If anyone can be said to be paranoid, it's those who racially profile, and who actually believe in its capacity to afford a measurable increase in safety. Moreover, if systematic racial profiling is "good enough" for all those minority groups you just listed, then it is just as good for whites, who comprise the majority of crimes I described above. That whites as a group are generally exempted from this system indicates to me that the fear and paranoia that drives racial profiling in the first place is indeed one-sided, a "common sense" way of ensuring that decent, law-abiding white people don't become victimized by select groups criminally-inclined ethnic minorities. Since you can't have it both ways, then the "logic" of racial profiling falls on its own lack of consistency. Profile everyone or profile no one.

What crap. Unless you can provide evidence that one or another ethnic or racial group is more likely to be better at a job, as is can be proven that one ethnicity or race is more likely to be a drug dealer, illegal immigrant or terrorist your analogy is useless.
Even if you can its still not the same thing because giving one group extra credit for nothing but race (as in affirmitive action) is not the same as credidint a group with things it is actually doing is the case with most racial profiling.

Even your first sentence is misleading, every time a white person is sought for a crime, they look for & single out white people, whites are definately targeted in investigation of recent militia groups, white supremecy groups, as repugnant as they are, are the focus of racial profiling. In every way your point is flawed.

But racial profiling is used precisely to target an individual by virtue of his race who may or may not be engaged in the behavior for which he is being profiled. If this is justifiable, then it is equally justifiable that race be taken into account in school admissions and hiring, regardless of whether or not the person so targeted is sufficiently qualified. Group "tendencies" are of little relevance when it comes to individual merit (or lack thereof). And in a truly merit-based system, you neither reward nor penalize someone for something over which they have no control.

[Braunwyn]

Ignorant people assume that it's not based on merit (outside nepotism). Jealous people, too. White women and minorities have succeeded due to their own hard work. Period. If any say differently, then I would hope they provide the evidence unless they are just too darn lazy to do so.

Trust me, jealous folk see the success of others as a form of bragging period. Under any context in any forum. They are green eyed monsters and they stew in it. So, Joe Blow can stew about the successful black CEO, Obama, or the successful white woman to his heart's content. It won't change his situation one darn bit. And he won't get an ounce of sympathy for it.

[MrSykes]

Originally Posted by fallingwater

Yes, I have experienced racism as a white woman. Has it stopped me from accomplishing somethings? Yes. Has it kept me from obtaining my dreams or life goals? No. I think that is pretty much the difference if I had to compare my experience to those that have experienced racism where it hinders all of life's accomplishments.

I worked in a youth home that was managed black supervisors and most of the employees were black. For the first 6 months I was referred to as "white girl". I later learned that most white employees quit early on. I hung in there and after a small blow out with a few of the employees I started to obtain respect and was actually called by my name. I thought I had somehow obtained acceptance but after a couple of years, I tried for promotions and so forth. I was told that "they only promote their own." This type of racism stopped me from moving up. So I got a different job.

Many years later after losing my job with the airline industry I took a job working retail. During orientation and a training period of several weeks I befriended a lovely woman who was black. She and I had a lot in common especially since we both had been laid off from the same company. We both chose to work the midnight shift since it paid several dollars more per hour. We were both trying to recoop as much as we could to boost our new meager salaries. The first night on our shift we agreed to have lunch together in the lunchroom. When I walked in she was already seated with several women that are black. She waved me over and as I went to pull out a chair, one of the women at the table threw her foot on it. She rudely told me the seat was taken. When I went to pull out the second chair, the woman did it again and yelled at me, "what don't you understand white girl! We don't want you here!" I looked at my friend and she kept her eyes down cast. I chose another table. When we made our way back to the floor, my friend apologized. She admitted she was having a hard time being accepted because she was considered high yellow due to her light skin tone and how she presented herself because she "acted white." I let it go and did not sit with my friend at lunch. These ladies chose their own segregation. Sadly over time, my new friend and I talked less. She seemed more worried about pleasing the black workers and acting a certain way.

A year later I was given a wonderful job opportunity and quit. My new boss said he really needed to hire another person and asked me if I knew anyone that was a dependable hard worker. Yes, I knew of someone. I went to approach my friend about this possible opportunity but she blew me off because the "others" were around. I told her to call me. She never did. So with her being so consumed with what others thought, she missed out on obtaining a better job. That was 5 years ago and the last I heard she was still stuck working there.

Racism is rapid on both sides but I think whites tend to ignore it as it does not hinder most of their activities or accomplishments. IMO, when whites experience racism they simply remove themselves from the situation when they can. On the other side of the issue, a minority may not have that luxury.

This strikes me as the most honest and forthright assessment of the phenomenon of anti-white racism on this thread to date. And while racism from blacks may be hurtful on a personal level to a white person, it is still the case that white people nonetheless do not stand to be significantly economically deprived by it, just as men by and large would have relatively little to lose if, say, faced with sexism from women. Nevertheless, the woman you had befriended was wrong to allow herself to be influenced by such petty in-group racial dynamics, to the point where not only couldn't she find it in herself to stand up for you while you were being harassed (as any real friend would), but also to where she would outright dismiss an opportunity to improve her economic well-being through more lucrative employment. Just goes to show that, in the long run, one who practices or condones racism will in one way or another discover that it will only work against their favor, as well it should.

[artwomyn]

Originally Posted by fallingwater

Yes, I have experienced racism as a white woman. Has it stopped me from accomplishing somethings? Yes. Has it kept me from obtaining my dreams or life goals? No. I think that is pretty much the difference if I had to compare my experience to those that have experienced racism where it hinders all of life's accomplishments.

I worked in a youth home that was managed black supervisors and most of the employees were black. For the first 6 months I was referred to as "white girl". I later learned that most white employees quit early on. I hung in there and after a small blow out with a few of the employees I started to obtain respect and was actually called by my name. I thought I had somehow obtained acceptance but after a couple of years, I tried for promotions and so forth. I was told that "they only promote their own." This type of racism stopped me from moving up. So I got a different job.

Many years later after losing my job with the airline industry I took a job working retail. During orientation and a training period of several weeks I befriended a lovely woman who was black. She and I had a lot in common especially since we both had been laid off from the same company. We both chose to work the midnight shift since it paid several dollars more per hour. We were both trying to recoop as much as we could to boost our new meager salaries. The first night on our shift we agreed to have lunch together in the lunchroom. When I walked in she was already seated with several women that are black. She waved me over and as I went to pull out a chair, one of the women at the table threw her foot on it. She rudely told me the seat was taken. When I went to pull out the second chair, the woman did it again and yelled at me, "what don't you understand white girl! We don't want you here!" I looked at my friend and she kept her eyes down cast. I chose another table. When we made our way back to the floor, my friend apologized. She admitted she was having a hard time being accepted because she was considered high yellow due to her light skin tone and how she presented herself because she "acted white." I let it go and did not sit with my friend at lunch. These ladies chose their own segregation. Sadly over time, my new friend and I talked less. She seemed more worried about pleasing the black workers and acting a certain way.

A year later I was given a wonderful job opportunity and quit. My new boss said he really needed to hire another person and asked me if I knew anyone that was a dependable hard worker. Yes, I knew of someone. I went to approach my friend about this possible opportunity but she blew me off because the "others" were around. I told her to call me. She never did. So with her being so consumed with what others thought, she missed out on obtaining a better job. That was 5 years ago and the last I heard she was still stuck working there.

Racism is rapid on both sides but I think whites tend to ignore it as it does not hinder most of their activities or accomplishments. IMO, when whites experience racism they simply remove themselves from the situation when they can. On the other side of the issue, a minority may not have that luxury.

Other forms of prejudice, are just a prevalent as racism too. Sexism, ageism, homophobia, etc. Judging people by what they do for a living, is also a form of discrimnation. Bragging about your profession, income, etc., is commonplace as well, and it's a form of arrogance, like racism is.

Many braggarts assume that others are just 'green eyed monsters', that are jealous of their so-called 'success'. In reality, braggarts need to believe that nonsense, to inflate their own huge egos. I certain am NOT jealous of these braggart types. I pity those who are so insecure, that they always have to broadcast how 'successful' they are, and how they got that way only through 'merit'.

White women, or anyone else who gets ahead, may not only get ahead based on just merit. Sometimes they do, but it's silly to assume that's always the case. Only people living in a dream world believe that. People can get ahead in life, by being the boss's son, cheating, manipulation, or because someone owes them a favor, to name just a few unsavory reasons. These things aren't always the case either, but they DO happen in the real world.

Whites do experience racism. But not the institutional, harmful kind, that minorities have had to deal with in America for years. And still have to deal with today.

[Braunwyn]

What's worse when it comes to those who complain about AA for women and minorities is the incessant, never ending whining and pleading for sympathy. As if that's going to find them a job, improve/change their education, make them something they are clearly not (no matter how much they lie to themselves). As I noted here or in another thread, there are resources available for needy whites, even if there are a bit more resources for minorities. It makes no difference. People either plan and use the resources, or contemplate their naval fuzz and hope somebody will give a flying fig.

Further, those failures in life who had all the opportunity in the world and p*ssed it away, who then turn around and accuse this or that woman or minority who is managing, that they must have resorted to devious behavior only shows that they are devious themselves. Black or female CEOs, etc, couldn't manage honestly because such people can't manage honestly themselves. Thieves always suspect other folk of stealing because they steal themselves. Lazy people always assume that others are lazy because that's all they know. It reminds me a bit of Joe the Plumber. Instead of getting real with himself and tapping into reality (that he was not a 250k earner and never would be), he went on a hyperbole attack against Obama. Only to find out later that he had a shoddy work history and was in debt up to his ears due to ridiculous life decisions. In the end it makes no difference. Obama is where he is, and people like this guy who made their life bed will deservingly lay in it.