Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
We idolize nature becuase deep down we have a carnal psyche. Animals simply exist. They cannot comtemplate nor really fully understand their lives but simply act out what hundereds of millions of years of evolution has genetically hard wired them with.
Humans on the other hand have the burden of consciousness. We can feel and think about our lives on another level beyond our instinctual drives. IMHO, this is a remnace of God and is a reminder of what was lost when we strayed from him. Humans weren't meant to subjugate nature, but we are a higher speices. Satan's biggest temptation to man was to basically block out our higher consciousness so that we can guiltlessly indulge in our instictual lusts for pride, power, sex, money and comfort.
This tear in our psychological nature is the building block of the human experience. In nature, there is no such thing as "Right and Wrong", just survival. If that means killing my neighbor for his stuff or maybe sleeping around with hundereds of women it's all golden. Deep down, we know this is wrong. A truly natural world is a world void of love, heroes, values, and meaning. There's a reason to be called an animal is an insult.
Basically the same reason that people like singers and actors altho they usually disappoint in the end.Its hard to be disappointed with animals because they are what they are and all so different.With humans you can never be quite too sure;can you?
Satan's biggest temptation to man was to basically block out our higher consciousness so that we can guiltlessly indulge in our instictual lusts for pride, power, sex, money and comfort.
I agree with your entire post except for this part. I disagree because according to the Christian story in Genesis, the greatest temptation to man was higher consciousness, the proverbial tree of knowledge of the difference between right and wrong. The desire of man to be like God. But for eating the forbidden fruit, humans would be like the rest of nature. So Satan isn't trying to block out our higher consciousness but rather is using it as a tool to sway Adam, according to the Christian narrative. Please note that I'm not making a religious point here but rather a cultural one. You don't see Satan in any of the Christian narratives trying to tempt an animal. They are incapable of sinning. They don't know how to. In that regard nature may appear very virtuous to some, against the backdrop of human culture.
The need for pride and money are competely human characteristics. They are in fact completely borne of our higher consciousness. Power maybe not as other species do have the alpha male, alpha female, et . Sex is programmed in every creature but lust, like pride and money, is a purely human trait, again the product of our higher consciousness.
Which is why I believe terms like "carnal" and "animal" to describe human lust and indulgence is inaccurate. While we may see the lion as vicious, or the fox as cunning, it's not reality. Those are human constructions, trying to fit a square into a circle by personifying non-persons. Everything animals do is the product of their evolution, what they have evolved to do to maintain their species, as you said. With humans that is not the case at all.
I have no Disney type misconceptions of Nature, rather, I am well aware of Nature's harshness and brutality. Nonetheless, I find myself more repulsed by so-called "civilization" as there is no excuse for humans, as intelligent as we are, to do the things we do to each other. Furthermore, as I see it, Nature is the "real" world, whereas human civilization is an artificial world built on silly concepts like money (just paper and ink, metal, etc.), a foolish desire to acquire and show to the world how consumerist one is (big houses, cars and so forth).
The need for pride and money are competely human characteristics. They are in fact completely borne of our higher consciousness. Power maybe not as other species do have the alpha male, alpha female, et . Sex is programmed in every creature but lust, like pride and money, is a purely human trait, again the product of our higher consciousness.
It depends on how one defines "Higher Consciousness".
In metaphysical text, higher consciousness is completely separate from the thinking, dualistic mind and is connected directly with Spirit ("God" or whatever one chooses to call it), and is devoid of things like pride and money. Pride, money, lust, greed, jealousy and power are seen as products of ego, which is born of the thinking mind, not of spirit and higher consciousness. In secular text, it is defined differently...to me, this is yet another example of the subjective and relative nature of belief systems in general.
It depends on how one defines "Higher Consciousness".
In metaphysical text, higher consciousness is completely separate from the thinking, dualistic mind and is connected directly with Spirit ("God" or whatever one chooses to call it), and is devoid of things like pride and money. Pride, money, lust, greed, jealousy and power are seen as products of ego, which is born of the thinking mind, not of spirit and higher consciousness. In secular text, it is defined differently...to me, this is yet another example of the subjective and relative nature of belief systems in general.
I see what you're saying. I was defining higher consciousness in terms of the distinction between animals and humans. The intelligence that leads humans as a society to create complex morals, values, etc.
I see what you're saying. I was defining higher consciousness in terms of the distinction between animals and humans. The intelligence that leads humans as a society to create complex morals, values, etc.
Ah...thanks for the clarification .
But don't we see this in nature/animals too? Certain species even mate for life... 11 animals that mate for life | MNN - Mother Nature Network
according to the above site, black vultures will even go so far as to attack another vulture who is attempting to mate with anyone but his designated partner...talk about enforcing the rules!
What is interesting to note is that while humans will beat up and kill each other for reasons like jealousy, greed, power, and (in some cases, sadly) for a thrill, most animals generally will only kill in order to eat or to protect themselves, their families, etc. There's no one standing at a podium preaching to them, yet the inherently know, just as chimpanzees know it's "wrong" to not share a banana, and any chimp who is selfish enough to eat a whole banana without sharing will be shunned and in bad graces with the others.
We humans have created a world of excess, and questions about morality rarely extend to what we're doing to nature itself and the many other species who share this planet with us. For all of our "intelligence", we have certainly done a bang-up job of polluting, defacing, killing, and otherwise exhibiting unethical behavior that goes against nature.
Many times in a discussion, perhaps about human nature, or desired human behaviour, people will bring up how it is in "nature" or more specifically animals' behaviour, is the way it should be.
For instance, when sex and gender are being discussed, people will argue that we should stick to "traditional" male and female roles because of how it is "in nature".
Or, as another example some point to how animals spent a lot of effort trying hard to survive and how we've become fat, lazy, spend time all day in offices and say how we've lost touch with the outdoors.
Now, it is a fair point that we share much of our behaviour and base desires with animals, but why would you want to idealize creatures less intelligent and behaviourally complicated than us and use them as a role model or guide on how to act? Regardless of whether you are a religious person (and beliefs about how specially created humans are), it seems strange to compare yourself, who can read this thread now, and think, contemplate, and imagine so deeply, to the critters scurrying, flying, swimming and struggling to eat and avoid being eaten in the woods, fields and valleys around you.
What goes on in "nature" itself is a cruel and mindless process of competition, survival and reproduction (I put nature in quotes, since some would argue human nature is not exempt from this). While I am very interested in the study of animals and other aspects of "nature" and find it fascinating, I can't see the need to idealize it the way some do.
Nature is about as "free market" as you can get. Its cruel, it takes no prisoners, and there are no rules, but its also beautiful in its simplicity. Its how humans got to be where we are.
If you turn your back on where you came from, and what has worked for thousands of years, you are destined for a fall. IMO humans have done this.
There are things that we can do to work within nature, and there are somethings that we can do to mitigate natural effects on us as a species. But to change things for the few, or the one, is simply hurting the species as a whole.
Nature is about as "free market" as you can get. Its cruel, it takes no prisoners, and there are no rules, but its also beautiful in its simplicity. Its how humans got to be where we are.
If you turn your back on where you came from, and what has worked for thousands of years, you are destined for a fall. IMO humans have done this.
There are things that we can do to work within nature, and there are somethings that we can do to mitigate natural effects on us as a species. But to change things for the few, or the one, is simply hurting the species as a whole.
That's true, but if we follow "nature's way", the irony would be that we would not care about other animals and the "outside world" that people usually think of when they say "nature" (such as natural parks and preserves etc.), unless they are useful to us/our survival.
We'd not shed a tear about wiping out a species like lions or bears. That said, we do or at least have tried to wipe out things that are dangerous to use like parasites (some scientists say that it'd be better if mosquitoes were wiped out, since they carry such a disease burden).
Ah...thanks for the clarification .
But don't we see this in nature/animals too? Certain species even mate for life... 11 animals that mate for life | MNN - Mother Nature Network
according to the above site, black vultures will even go so far as to attack another vulture who is attempting to mate with anyone but his designated partner...talk about enforcing the rules!
What is interesting to note is that while humans will beat up and kill each other for reasons like jealousy, greed, power, and (in some cases, sadly) for a thrill, most animals generally will only kill in order to eat or to protect themselves, their families, etc. There's no one standing at a podium preaching to them, yet the inherently know, just as chimpanzees know it's "wrong" to not share a banana, and any chimp who is selfish enough to eat a whole banana without sharing will be shunned and in bad graces with the others.
We humans have created a world of excess, and questions about morality rarely extend to what we're doing to nature itself and the many other species who share this planet with us. For all of our "intelligence", we have certainly done a bang-up job of polluting, defacing, killing, and otherwise exhibiting unethical behavior that goes against nature.
Interesting articles. What I was getting at was what you described in your last two paragraphs. It's scary to think about, but destroying nature has been almost sanctified in most societies. Destroy competitors, increase food supply and bring more humans into the world. That's how most cultures characterize humans' relationship with the world. And with more food comes more humans and more food, until we have outstripped all the resources.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
.
