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Old 01-28-2011, 11:00 AM
 
Location: Cumberland Co., TN
20,014 posts, read 20,504,984 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom123 View Post

I agree that we should help this woman eat, with a set time limit along with job training and job placement, but you brought up an interesting question. Are you saying the taxpayers should pay to take care of people, because of mistakes and bad policies made by the government? It seems as if that's what you're saying. Shouldn't the solution be to give the government less money to avoid more bad programs?
First, this particular woman was an administrative assistant, so I assume she does have skills/education to qualify for jobs. Second, job placement is the problem. There are no jobs available. So in this particular situation where a person is laid-off due to the failing economy this is of no use. I agree it is a good thing for those with no job skills in a better economy.

Again, in this situation this woman thru her job paid into unemployment insurance and thru her tax deductions contributed to funds for social programs so I feel it is justified for her to receive help when she needs it.

Thatís a good question. I do not believe citizens can rightfully blame the government entirely for their own financial situations and expect to be taken care of. On the other hand, I do hold the government responsible for its bad politics/shady dealing and outright empathetic attitude towards it citizens. And when thru these actions knowingly allows jobs to leave the county and allows depressed wages while making policy that increase taxes and raises prices. If the government takes away our ability to be self sufficient then, yes it is responsible to take care of us.

Donít forget also that many needing assistance now are the same taxpayers who have been giving 30% of their wages to the government. Welfare is not a bad program, it is just mismanaged.

 
Old 01-28-2011, 11:12 AM
 
2,096 posts, read 1,586,827 times
Reputation: 996
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares View Post
First, this particular woman was an administrative assistant, so I assume she does have skills/education to qualify for jobs. Second, job placement is the problem. There are no jobs available. So in this particular situation where a person is laid-off due to the failing economy this is of no use. I agree it is a good thing for those with no job skills in a better economy.

Again, in this situation this woman thru her job paid into unemployment insurance and thru her tax deductions contributed to funds for social programs so I feel it is justified for her to receive help when she needs it.

That’s a good question. I do not believe citizens can rightfully blame the government entirely for their own financial situations and expect to be taken care of. On the other hand, I do hold the government responsible for its bad politics/shady dealing and outright empathetic attitude towards it citizens. And when thru these actions knowingly allows jobs to leave the county and allows depressed wages while making policy that increase taxes and raises prices. If the government takes away our ability to be self sufficient then, yes it is responsible to take care of us.

Don’t forget also that many needing assistance now are the same taxpayers who have been giving 30% of their wages to the government. Welfare is not a bad program, it is just mismanaged.
Good afternoon 2mares,

Good points. I don't have an issue with welfare or food stamps in general. Even though I dislike hearing of some citizens "riding the system", I've done the research and realize that welfare/foods stamps are a very small portion of the federal budget. The real issues lie in our entitlement programs, which no one seems to want to admit is a welfare program once a person gets above and beyond their max contributions plus interest. My question was more of a philosophical question, since it seemed you justified making the taxpayers pay, based on the failures of politicians, and not based on the fact that it's the "right thing to do".

For most of what you said, I agree. I'm against many of those governmental policies that put us in this situation. If I had to choose, it's better to subsidize people for a set time limit than to have folks robbing and stealing. However, an even better solution is to take those welfare/food stamps/unemployment funds and use them to train and place people into in demand jobs.

In regards to the "no jobs" phrase that's always being used, people need to move where the jobs are and/or change fields to something that's in demand, like they used to in the past. Also, many people seem to refuse to take a job that's "beneath them". I've seen this displayed on this board in unemployment threads. There are plenty of jobs out there, it just may not be where the majority of unemployed people are living currently. We shouldn't have to subsidize people long term simply because they CHOOSE to remain in economically depressed areas. Actually, moving for jobs would help the depressed area's job market since less people would still be in the area searching for employment.

I already provided the breakdown for how cheap it really is to move to a job with plenty of jobs in another thread.

Have a good afternoon.
 
Old 01-28-2011, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Cumberland Co., TN
20,014 posts, read 20,504,984 times
Reputation: 20369
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom123 View Post
Good morning,

It's possible, I eat for about $5 daily, mostly for healthier eating, but the side effect is saving money. I am extremely stuffed after each meal.

Here is my own $5 per day meal plan:

Breakfast:
-Banana: $1.50 for a bunch of 7, will last 7 days: ($0.21 per day)
-Instant Oatmeal: $2.00 for a box, will last 10 days: ($0.20 per day), or buy the big can of Quaker oats and cook them for even cheaper!
-Water: Free

Lunch:
-Baked/Boiled Potato: 10 lb bag (approx 20 or more 1/4 lb potatoes) will last 20 or more days ($0.075 per day)
-Small Chili, (Vegetable, Bean and Meat): $1.39 at Wendy's, or substitute multiple turkey sandwiches with cheese for about the same price, ($1.39 per day).
-Apple: $0.39 each
-Water: Free

Dinner:
-Chicken Breasts: Family pack, will last 2 weeks at $15: ($1.07 per day)
-Knorr Rice or Pasta Sides: Many flavors, 12 pack for $14, will last 12 days: ($1.16 per day) or substitute brown rice, pasta, or multiple baked/boiled potatoes for less!
-Canned or Frozen Vegetables: (a variety of vegetables are approx $1.00 per day or less)
-Fruit: $.50 per serving for orange or fresh pineapple. ($0.50 per day)
-Water: Free

Total spent: $4.91 to $5.99 per day.

The point of this exercise is to prove that thinking out of the box, one could do this and eat very well. Notice I have the recommended 2 fruits and 3 veggies, and the fiber. People spend more than we really need to, and eat more than we need to. I usually eat 1800 to 2000 calories per day.
Im am proud of you tho I really do not believe this is how you eat or the prices you quote including taxes (my state is about 9.75 including food). Good point though and a good exercise for everyone to challange themselves to eat for $5 everyday.

We can also have a can of alpo daily for about 70 cents. I could personally shoot rabbits and squirells and roast them over a fire for the cost of a bullet but is that reasonable for ppl who have paid generally 30% of their income to the gov. for years. Sometimes I like some salt and pepper, butter or what not with my food.
 
Old 01-28-2011, 11:23 AM
 
Location: SW Missouri
15,527 posts, read 29,228,109 times
Reputation: 21263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom123 View Post
Good morning,

It's possible, I eat for about $5 daily, mostly for healthier eating, but the side effect is saving money. I am extremely stuffed after each meal.

Here is my own $5 per day meal plan:

Breakfast:
-Banana: $1.50 for a bunch of 7, will last 7 days: ($0.21 per day)
-Instant Oatmeal: $2.00 for a box, will last 10 days: ($0.20 per day), or buy the big can of Quaker oats and cook them for even cheaper!
-Water: Free

Lunch:
-Baked/Boiled Potato: 10 lb bag (approx 20 or more 1/4 lb potatoes) will last 20 or more days ($0.075 per day)
-Small Chili, (Vegetable, Bean and Meat): $1.39 at Wendy's, or substitute multiple turkey sandwiches with cheese for about the same price, ($1.39 per day).
-Apple: $0.39 each
-Water: Free

Dinner:
-Chicken Breasts: Family pack, will last 2 weeks at $15: ($1.07 per day)
-Knorr Rice or Pasta Sides: Many flavors, 12 pack for $14, will last 12 days: ($1.16 per day) or substitute brown rice, pasta, or multiple baked/boiled potatoes for less!
-Canned or Frozen Vegetables: (a variety of vegetables are approx $1.00 per day or less)
-Fruit: $.50 per serving for orange or fresh pineapple. ($0.50 per day)
-Water: Free

Total spent: $4.91 to $5.99 per day.

The point of this exercise is to prove that thinking out of the box, one could do this and eat very well. Notice I have the recommended 2 fruits and 3 veggies, and the fiber. People spend more than we really need to, and eat more than we need to. I usually eat 1800 to 2000 calories per day.
Freedom123, you might be eating on the cheap using this scenario, but you are going to suffer some SEVERE nutritional deficiencies. Canned and frozen vegetables do not and cannot replace fresh, green, leafy foods. You would do well to include some sprouts or greens in addition to that which you have listed. To be honest, adding this would not increase the amount appreciatively.

Forget the Knorr rice and pasta sides, and the Wendy's chili and all of the other prepackaged garbage that contains a litany of chemicals a yard long. Instead buy the ingredients and make your own side dishes. Again, you aren't going to be spending THAT MUCH MORE on a per-serving basis.

As Dave Ramsey would say: beans and rice, rice and beans....but add some fresh, raw vegetables and greens for optimum health.

20yrsinBranson
 
Old 01-28-2011, 03:34 PM
 
2,096 posts, read 1,586,827 times
Reputation: 996
Quote:
Originally Posted by 20yrsinBranson View Post
Freedom123, you might be eating on the cheap using this scenario, but you are going to suffer some SEVERE nutritional deficiencies. Canned and frozen vegetables do not and cannot replace fresh, green, leafy foods. You would do well to include some sprouts or greens in addition to that which you have listed. To be honest, adding this would not increase the amount appreciatively.

Forget the Knorr rice and pasta sides, and the Wendy's chili and all of the other prepackaged garbage that contains a litany of chemicals a yard long. Instead buy the ingredients and make your own side dishes. Again, you aren't going to be spending THAT MUCH MORE on a per-serving basis.

As Dave Ramsey would say: beans and rice, rice and beans....but add some fresh, raw vegetables and greens for optimum health.

20yrsinBranson
You're right. This was a sample meal, I did not mean to indicate I do not eat the fresh stuff or that I eat this exact plan every day, although some foods are common daily, like the fruits and chicken breasts. For the means of my post, I wanted to use foods that are easy to price without having to go to the store.

This rigid example was also meant for someone who is unemployed and "starving" based on the above posts. An unemployed person who is struggling can live on $5 per day and still eat semi-healthy rather than "starve" from worrying about the "garbage". Either way, your point is well taken and if you'd like to add the good stuff in replacement for what I wrote, I could only help further my point.
 
Old 01-28-2011, 03:38 PM
 
2,096 posts, read 1,586,827 times
Reputation: 996
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares View Post
Im am proud of you tho I really do not believe this is how you eat or the prices you quote including taxes (my state is about 9.75 including food). Good point though and a good exercise for everyone to challange themselves to eat for $5 everyday.

We can also have a can of alpo daily for about 70 cents. I could personally shoot rabbits and squirells and roast them over a fire for the cost of a bullet but is that reasonable for ppl who have paid generally 30% of their income to the gov. for years. Sometimes I like some salt and pepper, butter or what not with my food.
Where I live in Texas, most foods are not subject to sales tax. The price listed is the exact price I pay. Once again, that goes along with the idea of moving where one can have a better job market, lower taxes, no state income taxes (aka bigger paycheck), better situation, etc.
 
Old 01-28-2011, 10:21 PM
 
Location: Nebraska
4,222 posts, read 6,989,869 times
Reputation: 6603
For the Hard Core Survivalists here are a few tips.

Many years ago I spent two weeks every year taking survival classes in various climates and settings. One of the most interesting classes was in URBAN survival. In most cities IF you have a few simple skills you can survive and do it fairly well WITHOUT committing any major crimes. You might violate a few game laws but a night or two of thee hots and a cot ain't gonna kill you right?
It has been many years since I took these classes so forgive me if I leave out a few details. Here is a list of tools necessary for URBAN survival.

1. A good pocket knife (3-1/2inch blades can be concealed legally in almost ALL states). A good diamond coated sharpening stick is nice but in a pinch a brick or concrete surface will work.
2. A fire starting device. BIC lighters and their Flint wheels work even after fuel is gone. Often times people throw old lighters in trash containers. Look in the trash around bars, you will probably find some.
3. A spool of mono-filament fishing line. Very useful in building snares for pigeons and squirrels.
4. Old two liter plastic bottles can be turned into great fish traps or even live traps for small animals.
5. If you have to sleep outside almost any trash can will have discarded paper products that can be stuffed inside your shirt or pants to provide insulation. Don't forget your feet.
6. Old plastic garbage bags make great raincoats during wet weather.

With the exception of mono-filament line and a pocket knife every other item on my list can be scrounged from public trash cans. Just remember when you sort through trash bins to keep it neat.
Every larger city I have spent time in has pigeons and squirrels so numerous they are usually considered pests. Around city parks with water you can find ducks, geese and plenty of fish. Learn how to build snares and fish traps and you will never go hungry. CLEAN water can be carried in two liter bottles as needed. Stash a few extra out of sight for cooking and bathing purposes. Hopefully you will never need to use any of these skills but just the peace of mind in knowing that you could survive flat broke in a large city is comforting. Actually survival in an urban environment is probably a lot easier that out in the woods.

GL2
 
Old 01-29-2011, 05:59 AM
 
Location: In a house
13,258 posts, read 34,604,245 times
Reputation: 20198
You could do what GL2 suggests.
Or, you could make some attempt at being a member of society, accept help from the government, and ask for food stamps and apply for welfare and section 8 housing. If you are mentally disabled and unable to be responsible for youself (meaning - if the only reason you're not living in a psych ward is that the mental hospital lost funding and had to release some of the patients), then you can get on SSI disability.

That is what these things are FOR. They are for the destitute, the people who have no other means of providing food and shelter for themselves. And yes, that's even if they're single, and especially if they're unemployed.
 
Old 01-29-2011, 06:34 AM
 
8,305 posts, read 8,577,591 times
Reputation: 25923
Quote:
For the Hard Core Survivalists here are a few tips.

Many years ago I spent two weeks every year taking survival classes in various climates and settings. One of the most interesting classes was in URBAN survival. In most cities IF you have a few simple skills you can survive and do it fairly well WITHOUT committing any major crimes. You might violate a few game laws but a night or two of thee hots and a cot ain't gonna kill you right?
It has been many years since I took these classes so forgive me if I leave out a few details. Here is a list of tools necessary for URBAN survival.

1. A good pocket knife (3-1/2inch blades can be concealed legally in almost ALL states). A good diamond coated sharpening stick is nice but in a pinch a brick or concrete surface will work.
2. A fire starting device. BIC lighters and their Flint wheels work even after fuel is gone. Often times people throw old lighters in trash containers. Look in the trash around bars, you will probably find some.
3. A spool of mono-filament fishing line. Very useful in building snares for pigeons and squirrels.
4. Old two liter plastic bottles can be turned into great fish traps or even live traps for small animals.
5. If you have to sleep outside almost any trash can will have discarded paper products that can be stuffed inside your shirt or pants to provide insulation. Don't forget your feet.
6. Old plastic garbage bags make great raincoats during wet weather.

With the exception of mono-filament line and a pocket knife every other item on my list can be scrounged from public trash cans. Just remember when you sort through trash bins to keep it neat.
Every larger city I have spent time in has pigeons and squirrels so numerous they are usually considered pests. Around city parks with water you can find ducks, geese and plenty of fish. Learn how to build snares and fish traps and you will never go hungry. CLEAN water can be carried in two liter bottles as needed. Stash a few extra out of sight for cooking and bathing purposes. Hopefully you will never need to use any of these skills but just the peace of mind in knowing that you could survive flat broke in a large city is comforting. Actually survival in an urban environment is probably a lot easier that out in the woods.
Reading this thread of posts about this single woman who just needs a few foodstamps to get by has been real instructive to me. I step back and ask myself "what kind of a country have we become"?

I'm 51 years old now. I grew up in the sixties and the seventies. The idea that we could be such a mean and nasty society that anyone would deny a bare minimum of assistance to a sixty year old woman who has worked all her life and is now down on her luck is very revolting to me. Shame on the people who would deny her a lousy $300 a month in foodstamps. Shame on them!

I pray that the kind of post that Gunluvver has made above is some kind of fantasy and is not a future portrait of what this country will look like in ten or twenty more years.

In the last few years, I have traveled abroad both to Third World and First World countries. I have plenty of opportunity to compare them to America. Despite this awful recession we are going through, based on what I've seen abroad the vast majority of us in this country still have a pretty good deal going for ourselves. That "pretty good deal" could easily be lost if everyone can only think in terms of "ME, ME, ME".

I realize there are wide gulfs in this country between the poor and the wealthy. I realize the dems hate the repubs and the repubs hate the dems. Some go along with anything Obama proposes. Others call him a "socialist".

Has it ever occurred to any of you that the truth is somewhere in the middle? We Americans have fought and won world wars. We have created the greatest standard of living for the most people of any country ever known. We've sent men to the moon. Yet, our own selfishness may spell our doom.

Providing some type of minimal governmental assistance to one single adult who is struggling to get back on her feet should not be controversial. Nor, IMO, should someone like this be forced to fill out endless government forms to get it. Compassion has a place in our society and I hope the day never comes when any of us have to trap pigeons simply to survive. If it does come, the America I know and love no longer exists.
 
Old 01-29-2011, 06:55 AM
 
Location: Stuck in NE GA right now
4,585 posts, read 10,474,363 times
Reputation: 6597
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Reading this thread of posts about this single woman who just needs a few foodstamps to get by has been real instructive to me. I step back and ask myself "what kind of a country have we become"?

I'm 51 years old now. I grew up in the sixties and the seventies. The idea that we could be such a mean and nasty society that anyone would deny a bare minimum of assistance to a sixty year old woman who has worked all her life and is now down on her luck is very revolting to me. Shame on the people who would deny her a lousy $300 a month in foodstamps. Shame on them!

I pray that the kind of post that Gunluvver has made above is some kind of fantasy and is not a future portrait of what this country will look like in ten or twenty more years.

In the last few years, I have traveled abroad both to Third World and First World countries. I have plenty of opportunity to compare them to America. Despite this awful recession we are going through, based on what I've seen abroad the vast majority of us in this country still have a pretty good deal going for ourselves. That "pretty good deal" could easily be lost if everyone can only think in terms of "ME, ME, ME".

I realize there are wide gulfs in this country between the poor and the wealthy. I realize the dems hate the repubs and the repubs hate the dems. Some go along with anything Obama proposes. Others call him a "socialist".

Has it ever occurred to any of you that the truth is somewhere in the middle? We Americans have fought and won world wars. We have created the greatest standard of living for the most people of any country ever known. We've sent men to the moon. Yet, our own selfishness may spell our doom.

Providing some type of minimal governmental assistance to one single adult who is struggling to get back on her feet should not be controversial. Nor, IMO, should someone like this be forced to fill out endless government forms to get it. Compassion has a place in our society and I hope the day never comes when any of us have to trap pigeons simply to survive. If it does come, the America I know and love no longer exists.
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