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Old 03-05-2011, 03:15 PM
 
Location: Atlanta ,GA
9,067 posts, read 15,744,826 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
In a lot of ways I think your question is not that important in the grand scehme of things. The fact that remains that America, as a whole is underachieving in education compared to the rest of the world. What passes for average achievement here is well below average in other developed countries.
You are partially right:Yes.lets raise our standards.
No.It does matter.It is very important in the grand scheme of the thigs.You you were one of those disenfranchised groups,you would never say that.Thats the problem in a nutshell.You have a very large segment of society underachieving is not could for the whole country.Those at the bottom have no hope why do they care about your future or anybody else if they don't see themselves as equals with equal access.Before anyone brings the black president argument,let me tell you that the president,his wife,or black upper middle class might as well be Martians to some of these kids.There is as much of a class and culture gap between blacks of different class and culture ,as their is between whites and blacks overall.

Talk to someone in France who is a Arab,or African minority.Look at the turmoil in the suburbs of Frances largest cities.France portrays itself as a colorblind or class blind society.They do in some ways have better relations than those in the U.S. Overall?No.Those youth found in the large ghetto's of the cities are no more educated than those in America.I love France and French culture but they ignore these problems as if those people should just be hapy to be in France until a riot breaks out i Clichy or Montfermeil.It can happen here if we continue this notion that its "just not that big a deal".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mnxSbZT7uc&feature=fvst
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Old 03-05-2011, 03:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afonega1 View Post
Talk to someone in France who is a Arab,or African minority.Look at the turmoil in the suburbs of Frances largest cities.France portrays itself as a colorblind or class blind society.They do in some ways have better relations than those in the U.S. Overall?No.Those youth found in the large ghetto's of the cities are no more educated than those in America.I love France and French culture but they ignore these problems as if those people should just be hapy to be in France until a riot breaks out i Clichy or Montfermeil.It can happen here if we continue this notion that its "just not that big a deal".
France, French culture, the French language, the French.
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Old 03-05-2011, 04:29 PM
 
Location: Atlanta ,GA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braunwyn View Post
France, French culture, the French language, the French.
lol.They are curious creatures indeed.But I do love a lot of things about France more than i dislike.
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Old 03-05-2011, 07:28 PM
 
30,873 posts, read 36,818,996 times
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Originally Posted by Braunwyn View Post
I agree, but it's not quite that simple. Massachusetts, for example, is competitive with high achieving nations. "Massachusetts' fourth and eighth graders outscored the nation, and most of their international peers, in math and science on the world's largest study of student performance in those subjects, Governor Patrick announced at the Manassah E. Bradley School in East Boston on Tuesday." Source. Unfortunately, I think 2010 showed challenges, but don't quote me on that. Any way, take MA and MS, get an average, and it tells a different story. Just not an accurate story for MA.

Your point is well taken. Unfortunately, MA is a small state dwarfed by large, low achieving states like TX & CA.
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Old 03-05-2011, 07:42 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afonega1 View Post
lol.They are curious creatures indeed.But I do love a lot of things about France more than i dislike.
I've never been. But, I took French history and French film classes in college. That's where I was first introduced to colonialism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
Your point is well taken. Unfortunately, MA is a small state dwarfed by large, low achieving states like TX & CA.
What's key about MA, to be clear, is not our great educational system. Our governors just happen to luck out. It's the fact that MA is a high tech state with educated workers/parents. That's what really matters.
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Old 03-05-2011, 08:50 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
Your point is well taken. Unfortunately, MA is a small state dwarfed by large, low achieving states like TX & CA.
Actually, TX scores above average, for both races.
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Old 03-05-2011, 10:27 PM
 
Location: Atlanta ,GA
9,067 posts, read 15,744,826 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braunwyn View Post
I've never been. But, I took French history and French film classes in college. That's where I was first introduced to colonialism.


What's key about MA, to be clear, is not our great educational system. Our governors just happen to luck out. It's the fact that MA is a high tech state with educated workers/parents. That's what really matters.
Well that goes for many countries.Portugal,The Netherlands,Spain,etc..But French are often the ones that seem to ignore that history more than others.I dislike that,but I do have many friends that are of Arab and African,and even descendants of African Americans that are French citizens.They take on all this varies where as it seems the white French seem to think everything is just fine "kum-ba-ya" and all.

Josephine Baker
James Baldwin
Eugene Jacques Bullard- an American volunteer in the French army, became the first black military pilot in history and the only black pilot in World War I.
Just soe of the black talent that left America for the open arms of France in early 1900;s.Seems like now many Afro-Francs want to come here.Strange parallel to whats going on here with the blacks moving south for some of the same reasons.
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Old 03-06-2011, 05:19 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afonega1 View Post
Well that goes for many countries.Portugal,The Netherlands,Spain,etc..But French are often the ones that seem to ignore that history more than others.I dislike that,but I do have many friends that are of Arab and African,and even descendants of African Americans that are French citizens.They take on all this varies where as it seems the white French seem to think everything is just fine "kum-ba-ya" and all.
That's interesting. I've been reading a few papers this morning about French ghettos. There is a lot of argument that they don't exist from French social scientists. I'm thinking about starting a thread on it.

Quote:
Josephine Baker
James Baldwin
Eugene Jacques Bullard- an American volunteer in the French army, became the first black military pilot in history and the only black pilot in World War I.
Just soe of the black talent that left America for the open arms of France in early 1900;s.Seems like now many Afro-Francs want to come here.Strange parallel to whats going on here with the blacks moving south for some of the same reasons.
I didn't know they were moving south. Although, my world has become quite segregated so I wouldn't know.
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Old 03-06-2011, 09:49 AM
 
Location: Atlanta ,GA
9,067 posts, read 15,744,826 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braunwyn View Post
That's interesting. I've been reading a few papers this morning about French ghettos. There is a lot of argument that they don't exist from French social scientists. I'm thinking about starting a thread on it.


I didn't know they were moving south. Although, my world has become quite segregated so I wouldn't know.
I rent a room in my house as I have done in the past to several internationals,more French than anything,He is white French and 23 so his experience is different from a friend who is also French that just visited me from France but he is Afro-Franc and 35.I can ask them the same questions and get totally different answers..

I'm not sure in what numbers they wish to move but I was talking in the attitude of many Afro-Franc,It differs depending on the background of those Afro-Franccs.
For example Africans and their children achieve much higher than any group of people in America,(even Asians.However in France African immigrants for some reason are almost relegated to mirror the plight of how our society might view Mexicans.Afro-Francs that are more than one or two generations tend to be more French as most blacks in America are American in culture and nature.
Those French Social Scientist are supported by the elite.Its a shame because France is really gonna have to do more or lock there doors.,The colonialism in which they got fat is now biting them in the ass.Algeria,Tunisia,Sierra Leon etc....
May I ask why you say your world is more segregated is now?More white or black and why do you think?
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Old 03-06-2011, 06:43 PM
 
19,045 posts, read 25,140,949 times
Reputation: 13485
Quote:
Originally Posted by afonega1 View Post
I rent a room in my house as I have done in the past to several internationals,more French than anything,He is white French and 23 so his experience is different from a friend who is also French that just visited me from France but he is Afro-Franc and 35.I can ask them the same questions and get totally different answers..

I'm not sure in what numbers they wish to move but I was talking in the attitude of many Afro-Franc,It differs depending on the background of those Afro-Franccs.
For example Africans and their children achieve much higher than any group of people in America,(even Asians.However in France African immigrants for some reason are almost relegated to mirror the plight of how our society might view Mexicans.Afro-Francs that are more than one or two generations tend to be more French as most blacks in America are American in culture and nature.
Those French Social Scientist are supported by the elite.Its a shame because France is really gonna have to do more or lock there doors.,The colonialism in which they got fat is now biting them in the ass.Algeria,Tunisia,Sierra Leon etc....
Yea, I watched a number of films focusing on colonialism, specifically in Algeria. The prof was really trying to get the message out (white French). It's interesting that African immigrants are viewed like Mexicans here while African immigrants here are doing quite well. Huh.

Quote:
May I ask why you say your world is more segregated is now?More white or black and why do you think?
More white and asian. I was a travelling hippy/busker/small business owner for almost a decade before I went to college and my world was pretty diverse. I spent time with a Rasta community for a few years on and off as well. But, I studied sciences in school and now work in the sciences. I have two loose black friends presently. That's it. My world is pretty wrapped up in work right and there is not much of a black presence. And my dh is white as can be. So, I'm feeling off in my own world.

With that said, and I guess this shows a bit of color blindness on my part, I have several married in family members that are black. And several mixed cousins. My extended family beyond the Italian core, which will no longer be primarily Italian after my generation, is comprised of filipinos, Spanish, black, and several shades of white. I don't think of my family racially, tho. And we were all raised in Italian American culture.
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