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Old 02-08-2011, 08:51 AM
 
Location: Atlanta ,GA
9,086 posts, read 12,874,835 times
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I came across some research and I noticed that the "Achievement Gap" overall seem to be closer in the South than the North.Why are some states closing that gap and others seem to be the same or further apart?Is it more racism?If that the case then many peoples perception of the South is off.Or is this a fair assessment of race being an issue in educating?Where is YOUR state and why do you think it is and the direction its going in to close that gap?

Also how serious do some of you see this as even a major issue?

Between 1992-2007 these states closed that gap the fastest and outpaced the gains of white students(mathematics):
California
Connecticut
Delaware
District of Columbia
Florida
Georgia
Louisiana
Massachusetts
Michigan
Mississippi
New Jersey
Pennsylvania
South Carolina
Texas
Virginia

The state that had the smallest gap was West Virginia.13% The national average is 27%.How does West Virginia acheive this and other states are so different?

Look at pages 21,35(reading and math)
http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard...es/2009455.pdf
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Old 02-08-2011, 09:13 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn, New York
3,244 posts, read 3,487,470 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afonega1 View Post
The state that had the smallest gap was West Virginia.13% The national average is 27%.How does West Virginia acheive this and other states are so different?
Having a crap statewide education system where everyone does poorly surely helps bridge the *gap*.

I think the more politically correct term will be starting with "low base".
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Old 02-08-2011, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Atlanta ,GA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gantz View Post
Having a crap statewide education system where everyone does poorly surely helps bridge the *gap*.

I think the more politically correct term will be starting with "low base".
Well Is it not better that at least on the surface it would seem that the government(West Virginia) is impervious and giving equal access to everyone to whatever they have.Class warfare can wreck a community worse when too many have much more than others.How can it be any better to have a great educational system if a large part of your population cannot compete because of lowered standards?How does that help society?If anything it creates a drag for the system overall.
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Old 02-08-2011, 09:31 AM
 
48,519 posts, read 81,130,238 times
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No matter what governamnt can onyl offer opportunity for achievement. Its individuals and cuture that make the difference :IMO. One reason aisans show such a achievement rate now days;they value it more.
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Old 02-08-2011, 09:34 AM
 
8,649 posts, read 14,887,147 times
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We just dumb down the smart ones. It's easier that way......
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Old 02-08-2011, 09:39 AM
 
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The South is closing the gap by having everyone fail. The education standards are the lowest in the country, so it makes the "gap" lessened.
Here are standardized results for th grade math:
Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitor sites is against the tos

And 8th grade:
Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitor sites is against the tos

Here is the best educated index:
Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitor sites is against the tos

Notice the bottom ten states.

Please don't try to blame it on the class size:
Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitor sites is against the tos

In a true equal opportunity modern country with high standards there will always achievment differences. The ethnic groups adapted differently to match their environment, so to fight 1000's of years of adaptation is a lost cause.

You can compare people to dogs. Some dogs are well known for being smarter than others (collies), while others love water (labradors). To pretend for a moment that all dogs are equally capable at all things is extremely stupid. While some may buck the standard (labs that fear water), most don't. The same can be applied to people.

Last edited by Yac; 03-08-2011 at 08:23 AM..
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Old 02-08-2011, 09:47 AM
 
48,995 posts, read 39,459,188 times
Reputation: 30644
Quote:
Originally Posted by afonega1 View Post
Well Is it not better that at least on the surface it would seem that the government(West Virginia) is impervious and giving equal access to everyone to whatever they have.Class warfare can wreck a community worse when too many have much more than others.How can it be any better to have a great educational system if a large part of your population cannot compete because of lowered standards?How does that help society?If anything it creates a drag for the system overall.
West Virginia has the smallest gap because they have....the lowest white scores out of any state. (page 13).

I would highly recommend the following:
1) Read the part of the study about understanding score gaps.
2) Take a look at Washington DC's staggering score gap. You know why it's so big? (Hint: Private Schools and adverse selection)

In a few weeks there will be a big math competition in my area. I have worked at it for the last 4+ years. Out of 1500 kids there, I will see almost no blacks but a disproportionate amount of kids from pacific rim countries....whom will dominate the high scores. The next day there will be a sports camp at my gym and it will be packed with a disproportionate number of black kids and there will be virtually zero kids there from countries like Pak, India, China.

This is a cultural phenomenon and basically shows where the kids are being encouraged to put their efforts by parents, the community and american culture. If your kids know who Snooki, Lebron and Beyonce are but think the periodic table is something you set plates on.....

It's very easy to blame unequal access when in reality many states have VERY equal access (some don't but thats more of an urban problem) but are not encouraged to develop thier talents.

I went to college with a number of people from *bad* neighborhoods and their biggest struggles were from their "peers" dragging them down.

P.S. I would point out that the gap is pretty consistent from state to state and that scores tend to correlate more to poverty than anything else.
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Old 02-08-2011, 09:48 AM
 
48,995 posts, read 39,459,188 times
Reputation: 30644
Quote:
Originally Posted by randy8876 View Post
The South is closing the gap by having everyone fail. The education standards are the lowest in the country, so it makes the "gap" lessened.
Here are standardized results for th grade math:
Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitor sites is against the tos

And 8th grade:
Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitor sites is against the tos

Here is the best educated index:
Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitor sites is against the tos

Notice the bottom ten states.

Please don't try to blame it on the class size:
Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitor sites is against the tos

In a true equal opportunity modern country with high standards there will always achievment differences. The ethnic groups adapted differently to match their environment, so to fight 1000's of years of adaptation is a lost cause.

You can compare people to dogs. Some dogs are well known for being smarter than others (collies), while others love water (labradors). To pretend for a moment that all dogs are equally capable at all things is extremely stupid. While some may buck the standard (labs that fear water), most don't. The same can be applied to people.
And some dogs don't grasp math and correlation to root causes like poverty.

Last edited by Yac; 03-08-2011 at 08:22 AM..
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Old 02-08-2011, 09:52 AM
 
48,995 posts, read 39,459,188 times
Reputation: 30644
Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
No matter what governamnt can onyl offer opportunity for achievement. Its individuals and cuture that make the difference :IMO. One reason aisans show such a achievement rate now days;they value it more.
That and the fact that we only let the best of the best immigrate so they have a family emphasis on learning, likely have a family with better than average income etc.

For example, if there were no blacks in the US and you only let the ones in from Africa with PHD's or that were high acheivers qualifying to work here in a tech field or attend grad school...then the "black" scores would be very very high.

For every super-acheiving Chinese or Indian immigrants kid you see here, there are a hundred thousand more back home digging ditches.
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Old 02-08-2011, 10:37 AM
 
Location: Atlanta ,GA
9,086 posts, read 12,874,835 times
Reputation: 2908
Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
No matter what governamnt can onyl offer opportunity for achievement. Its individuals and cuture that make the difference :IMO. One reason aisans show such a achievement rate now days;they value it more.
That was not the question.Im not saying I disagree either but there is still a major gap in some states versus others.It does not always follow the same patterns.
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