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I disagree. Despite controlling these extra factors such as types of occupations, work experience, hours worked, etc, studies still show that women make less than men.
Of course women make less when you lump them all together. Break it down by occupation and other factors and you claim is not what it is.
Thirty of forty years ago the attitude towards women was very different than today. Also, there are many more laws to ensure fairness.
However, without looking at studies as you claim, today an owner in a very compteitive world and with laws protecting wome is very stupid in not giving women a chance and paying them less than the men he has without the risk of litigation and affecting production.
To put it to the test, where you work, do you see that? Be honest. Now, I am not saying there are no men that may have their biases towards women. That will never cease to exist just as there are women against men, whites against blacks and blacks against white and blacks of lighter skin.
The point is that wherever I have worked and when I talk to people, they do mention the unfairness out there in industry. It seems that humans will be the same forever.
However, overall women do get paid as much as men. Now, if you have a company that hires men and women. You will pay and promote them as they perform. Now, who do you think should get more pay. The individual that is pretty much there all the time doing work or the individual that is asking for appointments to take kids to the doctor, to go to school to see their performance, to request maternity leave, etc. Do you not think her peers will not feel they are not treated fairly because they have to pick up the slack?
Right or wrong a business is there to produce, not to be a social work program. If you have a woman that does not request for all the things others women do, which one you think will get promoted sooner and get paid more? I am not comparing women against other women. I venture to guess you will pay that women over the others that request time off to take care of personal commitments.
That is reality. Look around. Studies can be skewed on both sides of the issue. As you may cite your studies I can cite the ones I have read. However, at the end it is good to look around and see the realities I just mentioned.
I retired from the Army not too long ago after 32 years. Now, I re-entered the business world and work as Human Resources Assistant. I will tell you my boss does not care whether it is a woman, he wants production or you are out. He actually let some of our women get away from some things. Why? Because the ones he is more protective is because they have some skills other men and women do not have. There is some jealousy towards them. However, the ones that are asking for too much time to go and take care of family business eventually get weeded out of the company. He want people that produce. Now, business is family owned and his wife is the same way when it comes to their business. They can only go so far in going along with request many women want but after a certain point it is the boss and his wife's means of support. They are not going to risk closing business for any men and women. That makes sense I tell you the same sentiment is out there as I interact with more and more business people, take care.
We just need more ASSISTANCE with all students. I have a problem with singling out a race, gender, creed, religion and saying "they" need more than another group?
Can't we just educate children, all children to reach their potential--and accept whatever that limit may or may not be?
Men, doing the same job, still get paid, roughly, 20% more than women doing the same job. The gender wage gap is alive and well. I doubt it will close to women making 90% of what men make in my lifetime.
Since we don't have to prove anything anymore, you'll just have to accept that.
I didn't crunch the numbers to see if this fits the 20% more I've read in other places but this is from 2009. The wage gap was alive and well just two short years ago. I'm sure it hasn't died because of the recession. In fact, if history repeats itself (and it, usually, does) it will get worse because of the recession. That one you will have to take on faith because I'm not doing the digging it will take to prove that one but it is true. Women tend to lose better jobs in a bad economy faster than men and be less able to replace them.
Again, you can cite all kinds of articles and stats. I have gone that route. We can go back and forth as I did before with my stats too. Will that gain anything? No in my opinion. You will still feel the same way and I will also. That is why after a while I simply look around where I am working and looking at pay for men and women. As I stated in a previous message I can see how my boss and other bosses that are smart enough, they will not risk lawsuits so they would not dare pay their women less than the men.
Also, comparing by industry is does not go far enough. Do they compare by industry and show time off requested by male and female workers? What is the average time off on genders by industry?
How about comparing time off requested between women of different civil status between married and unmarried one?
Did they brake it down?
Sorry, I will go back to the original topic. If anyone wants to keep talking about this. I started a somewhat related topic. Look my profile and see where I have posted and threads I started and you will see discussion similar on this subject, take care.
We just need more ASSISTANCE with all students. I have a problem with singling out a race, gender, creed, religion and saying "they" need more than another group?
Can't we just educate children, all children to reach their potential--and accept whatever that limit may or may not be?
Good point. However, to some degree it is good to take a close looks why boys or girls may have a disparity in let us say graduating. The same about race, and other factors. Why? Because you may need to shape certain teaching methods for certain groups. Why are there studies on how women learn, behave, their cultural background, etc.? To find ways to help them, to find what medical techniques are best for them, etc. The same can be said and applied on how to make sure boys and girls learn their best, take care.
Of course women make less when you lump them all together. Break it down by occupation and other factors and you claim is not what it is.
Did you read what I said? I'm not talking about lumping women together. I said despite controlling all these other factors such as different occupation, work experience, education even, women still make less.
This thread has been moved from the education forum since the topic morphed into women in the workforce. I apologize for moving and then not immediately unlocking. I hope it's an appropriate subject for this forum.
Most of the settlements between lawyers are made in the mens room. If you look at classrooms, boys are more active than girls. Girls will conform. And, women do not have the same opportunities in the workplace as men. For those who have worked in an all male enviornment know about the struggles to get ahead.
Did you read what I said? I'm not talking about lumping women together. I said despite controlling all these other factors such as different occupation, work experience, education even, women still make less.
I read what you wrote. These controlling factors do even up pay. Where I work I do not see women getting paid less than men in comparable jobs. Actually, in some cases there are women that do less than men but you know what? They are actually getting paid less for the simple reason that they have a skill that my boss cannot afford to loose.
I look back and if we had this debate 30 years ago I would agree with you. Today, I can't agree. I do not see that happening. As I stated before, unfairness still exists on women and actually more on men because women have pushed on some issues and even gone to the other extrem, take care.
Why is there still so much academic support, scholarships, and benefits for women attending colleges when they are already doing much better than boys? Girls mature better than boys and are more suited to the school environment. Yet, people are still thinking that they are the ones who need help. I don't understand this phenomenon.
I thniik nthat we need to get past the support for college going to anyone who is not qaualified. Its based on what is best for the country ;not for individaul aid really. Spend the meony educating those in area that we need i this countrty not things we have massive numbers of. Scienece and math which we are told men are better at. So support what we need ;its not welfare or not supposed to be.
Why is there still so much academic support, scholarships, and benefits for women attending colleges when they are already doing much better than boys? Girls mature better than boys and are more suited to the school environment. Yet, people are still thinking that they are the ones who need help. I don't understand this phenomenon.
What sources do you have showing females get more academic support, more scholarships and benefits in education than males?
From reading the article I got females have always done better on average in school than boys. Only since 1982 have women outpaced men in college graduation rates. The article indicates that is because previously more women left college to marry. Presently after seeing how the high divorce rate affected their mothers, women have figured out that they will do better with a college education so they apply themselves. This is the incentive the article spoke of.
No where have I seen that since 1982 school curriculums are skewed to favor females, tests are skewed or any privileges are given to females. It seems as though since 1982 women have just begun to take advantage of their academics achievements so it appears as though they have some sort of advantage when they are actually just starting to apply themselves.
What exactly do you think the problem is and how would you address it?
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