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Old 02-27-2011, 03:33 PM
 
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Communism works in theory. But in reality, communism fails. People lose the will to work hard if their work goes unrewarded.

Think about it...why would you work harder than someone if there will be no benefit to your hard work, and you will be the same as everyone else regardless of how hard you work?
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Old 02-27-2011, 05:03 PM
 
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Usually I say something about how communism disgusts me, but since this is Great Debates I will say that communism, in all it's varieties, really only works in small groups that know each other at least reasonably well, and even then not necessarily as each of them must agree with the principles of "from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs". The family is actually a pretty good example of communism (although even that is not always working out very well).

Beyond the small group that voluntarily agrees to the principles of it, communism is immoral and destructive to prosperity, liberty and the human spirit, for a great part because of the argument you give.
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Old 02-27-2011, 07:22 PM
 
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Originally Posted by city_data91 View Post
Communism works in theory. But in reality, communism fails.
The reality is the "communism" has never been attempted and more importantly it has never been attempted under the conditions that Marx outlined as being the essential for its development, an advanced capitalist society on the verge of collapse.

Quote:
People lose the will to work hard if their work goes unrewarded.
Rewards for work come in many flavors. It isn't inconceivable or contrary to human nature to arrive at a point where work provides its own rewards.

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Think about it...why would you work harder than someone if there will be no benefit to your hard work,
Again "benefits" come in may flavors, there can be as many intrinsic awards as those that are extrinsic in nature.
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Old 02-27-2011, 07:24 PM
 
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by city_data91 View Post
Communism works in theory. But in reality, communism fails. People lose the will to work hard if their work goes unrewarded.

Think about it...why would you work harder than someone if there will be no benefit to your hard work, and you will be the same as everyone else regardless of how hard you work?
There are other things in life besides just "work", you know?! There are also similar forms to Communism, such as Socialist Democracies, that accomplish much the same goals, but without the totalitarianism.

And some of the most socialistic governments in the E.U. are also consistently ranked among the healthiest and happiest populations in the world (plus their economies manage to get along quite nicely too)!

BTW, remember that Capitalism and Democracy ain't necessarily the same thing.
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Old 02-27-2011, 07:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
The reality is the "communism" has never been attempted and more importantly it has never been attempted under the conditions that Marx outlined as being the essential for its development, an advanced capitalist society on the verge of collapse.



Rewards for work come in many flavors. It isn't inconceivable or contrary to human nature to arrive at a point where work provides its own rewards.



Again "benefits" come in may flavors, there can be as many intrinsic awards as those that are extrinsic in nature.
I think Marx had some good ideas, but he overlooked the flaws in his system.

And you might be onto something. In reality, maybe the way people implement communism is not the way Marx intended.

And there are other rewards/benefits. But when everyone is the same with no chance to become better than someone else, how hard would someone really be willing to work?

An advanced capitalist society on the verge of collapse sounds a lot like the economy of modern America. Are you implying America should become communist?

Last edited by city_data91; 02-27-2011 at 07:46 PM..
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Old 02-27-2011, 07:38 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by city_data91 View Post
Communism works in theory. But in reality, communism fails. People lose the will to work hard if their work goes unrewarded.

Think about it...why would you work harder than someone if there will be no benefit to your hard work, and you will be the same as everyone else regardless of how hard you work?
What both commnism and sopcialism fails in is that people tend to only work the minium they have to. It then depedns on pnishment to try to force more. peoeple i the end turn to sorruption and black market for what they wee the governamnt fialing to provide.Thhne as always those at the leite head tend to eliminate anyone they see as a threat to their having special privigle.It become a control form of governament. Of course communtism which differs i that at some point a formal government becomes unmecessary never really happens.They remaiin a socialist central controlled state just like Hitlers national socialist party was. That is why with his belief i social centrlist control Hitler naturally thought that Russia was his biggest threat'it was bascially the same form of government as his.Those that try to modify a capitalism demcracy ;IMO; actauly start having fewer and fewer who actauly control more and more of the production product because mnay just do not compete because they can survive without do it.Ambitionthen often turns to more rdical socialism beleiving that will change things.
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Old 02-27-2011, 07:42 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mateo45 View Post
There are other things in life besides just "work", you know?! There are also similar forms to Communism, such as Socialist Democracies, that accomplish much the same goals, but without the totalitarianism.

And some of the most socialistic governments in the E.U. are also consistently ranked among the healthiest and happiest populations in the world (plus their economies manage to get along quite nicely too)!

BTW, remember that Capitalism and Democracy ain't necessarily the same thing.
Socialism and communism are 2 different things. This thread is not about socialism. But socialism is not a bad thing. And what you say about the socialist European countries is true.
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Old 02-27-2011, 08:05 PM
 
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The Defenestrators: Why Communism Fails.
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Old 02-27-2011, 09:08 PM
 
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
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Originally Posted by city_data91 View Post
Socialism and communism are 2 different things. This thread is not about socialism. But socialism is not a bad thing. And what you say about the socialist European countries is true.
Thanks, I'm well aware of that difference, although perhaps the same can't be said for many folks of the "conservative" persuasion here, who often toss the two terms around almost interchangeably. And frankly, starting any OP with the simplistic assumption (and cherished bit of right wing ideology) that Communism is really only about "the will to work", probably doesn't help all that either.

BTW, am always amazed that "Communism" continues to be such a Conservative "obsession" (even now, almost 20 years after the end of the Cold War)?!
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Old 02-27-2011, 10:30 PM
 
Location: Lethbridge, AB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mateo45 View Post
Thanks, I'm well aware of that difference, although perhaps the same can't be said for many folks of the "conservative" persuasion here, who often toss the two terms around almost interchangeably. And frankly, starting any OP with the simplistic assumption (and cherished bit of right wing ideology) that Communism is really only about "the will to work", probably doesn't help all that either.

BTW, am always amazed that "Communism" continues to be such a Conservative "obsession" (even now, almost 20 years after the end of the Cold War)?!
I think socialism and communism get lumped together because one of the main tenets of each is the sharing of ownership of property. That, frankly, is also the reason that it's been so consistently criticized by conservative thinkers. By definition, communism requires loss of individual rights (property and otherwise).
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